Fins hire Al Saunders as consultant

I think that Lazor finishes out the season and is then fired along with everyone else left by whoever our new HC is at that point.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

I think that Lazor finishes out the season and is then fired along with everyone else left by whoever our new HC is at that point.

I dunno.

@AlbertBreer In addition to Saunders' hire, Miami moving ass't QBs coach Ben Johnson to TEs, re-assigning WRs coach Ken O'Keefe. So changes on O, not D.

Maybe Lazor is on the way out and O'Keefe will be the new OC. That's why they didn't mention O'Keefe's new position and why they brought in Saunders to consult.

It may also indicate that Campbell started sorting out the offense stuff first since that's more his wheelhouse.

I am guessing at all this.

Hm, if I thought changing out OC/DC in the middle of the season would be beneficial too us I'd be all over it. In my opinion they may as well ride out the season, at least with Lazor, and make sure Campbell lets him know how he wants the offensive scheme to look, and make sure Lazor knows Campbell will be over-seeing him. If Lazor isn't good with all that then he's being an insubordinate and must go. But if he listens. I don't think we need to butcher all the chickens in an ongoing season. Getting Philbin out was a big victory for us.

"IdrA wrote:

Hm, if I thought changing out OC/DC in the middle of the season would be beneficial too us I'd be all over it. In my opinion they may as well ride out the season, at least with Lazor, and make sure Campbell lets him know how he wants the offensive scheme to look, and make sure Lazor knows Campbell will be over-seeing him. If Lazor isn't good with all that then he's being an insubordinate and must go. But if he listens. I don't think we need to butcher all the chickens in an ongoing season. Getting Philbin out was a big victory for us.

If it makes sense to change the HC midseason (and it did) then it also makes sense to change coordinators mid season. If not, then the coordinators are more important than the HC.

"Fin D wrote:

If it makes sense to change the HC midseason (and it did) then it also makes sense to change coordinators mid season. If not, then the coordinators are more important than the HC.

Disagree. The Coordinators only had free reign to run their moronic systems thanks the Phibum being spineless and clueless. If Campbell puts them on a tight leash it would be ok.

But since we don't know anything, the best thing is for Campbell to sit down and start a dialogue with these coaches and see if they are willing to work with him the way he wants it to work.

I think if these guys want to have any hope at finding work in the NFL or football again, they should be on their best behavior. Certainly they know the microscope is on them.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

I think that Lazor finishes out the season and is then fired along with everyone else left by whoever our new HC is at that point.

My view is that Lazor has potential that was stagnated by Philbin. Lazor has lacked a mentor to help fix the I experienced mistakes. I am curious to see the results.

dolphins are reaching

The inconsistency of the offense during the 2005 season resulted in Gibbs hiring offensive coordinator Al Saunders as the Associate Head Coach – Offense. Saunders came from a similar background as Gibbs through being mentored under Don Coryell and was thought to be able to make the offense become more efficient. Saunders would serve as the primary playcaller. Because of this, it was believed that Gibbs would have the role of Head Coach/CEO with the Redskins in 2006 and would largely deal with personnel matters, as well as having more time to focus on special teams and defense, while Saunders would supplement Gibbs with the offense. Gibbs also added former Buffalo Bills defensive coordinator Jerry Gray to his staff as Secondary/Cornerbacks Coach. Gibbs did lose quarterbacks coach Bill Musgrave to the Atlanta Falcons over the summer of 2006.

Washington 2004 - 2005 6-10
Washington 2005 - 2006 5-11
Washington 2006 - 2007 9-7
Washington 2008 - 2009 8-8
Washington 2009 - 2010 4-12

I personally cant wait

During the 2004-2005 season Lazor was an assistant coach under Gibbs - Primarily responsible for ---------The Offense. It was believed it was too much for Lazor and the next year he was moved to QB Coach

"IdrA wrote:

Disagree. The Coordinators only had free reign to run their moronic systems thanks the Phibum being spineless and clueless. If Campbell puts them on a tight leash it would be ok.

But since we don't know anything, the best thing is for Campbell to sit down and start a dialogue with these coaches and see if they are willing to work with him the way he wants it to work.

I think if these guys want to have any hope at finding work in the NFL or football again, they should be on their best behavior. Certainly they know the microscope is on them.

Then as I said, you're making it out that HCs are less important to a team as they can be replaced while coordinators can't be.

"2socks wrote:

dolphins are reaching

Aren't they always? :cry:

I also agree with people's sentiment on saying Tannebaum was a bad hire. He destroyed the Jests. Why does Miami consistently hire bad coaches/staff and expect better results?

It is plausible that Saunders and Lazor can work together to improve the offense. Saunders plays the mentor role that Campbell does not have the experience to play. Campbell clearly states the mentality he wants to see from his offense. It has a chance of working. I still do not see how the defensive side of the ball will be improved.

"Fin D wrote:

Then as I said, you're making it out that HCs are less important to a team as they can be replaced while coordinators can't be.

I get what your point is. I just don't see it that way sorry. If the boss of your company is f'ing up, who do you fire? Think of the HC as the boss of the company. Think of him as the captain of a ship.

I'm obviously not saying Lazor/Coyle dumb & dumber have much chance if any at staying at the end of the season. And if the team truly refuses to play for them even under Campbell, then the team is just a bunch of pansies and we need to completely rebuild.

"IdrA wrote:

Aren't they always? :cry:

I also agree with people's sentiment on saying Tannebaum was a bad hire. He destroyed the Jests. Why does Miami consistently hire bad coaches/staff and expect better results?

Not sure why they do that. Frustrating. I found the info on Lazor when he was in the running of us hiring him. I posted it and Very few cared. It was a change and people were excited for it so they looked at what was positive, unfortunately now people are realizing the negative stuff is what we should have been paying attention to. I also questioned hiring Tannenbaum. All i knew was he put them in cap hell in New York with his all in mentality.

I will predict now that Miami will have a hard time filling the head coach role. It will primarily be several reasons. The biggest being we are ****ed with the cap for the next 4 or 5 years. Thank you Mike Tannenbaum.

"IdrA wrote:

I get what your point is. I just don't see it that way sorry. If the boss of your company is f'ing up, who do you fire? Think of the HC as the boss of the company. Think of him as the captain of a ship.

I'm obviously not saying Lazor/Coyle dumb & dumber have much chance if any at staying at the end of the season. And if the team truly refuses to play for them even under Campbell, then the team is just a bunch of pansies and we need to completely rebuild.

Of course you fire the boss if he's effing up.

But how are the coordinators not effing up on this team as well? How are they doing a good job?

They aren't, but you're saying in spite of the fact that they are doing poorly they can't be fired.

"jcliving wrote:

It is plausible that Saunders and Lazor can work together to improve the offense. Saunders plays the mentor role that Campbell does not have the experience to play. Campbell clearly states the mentality he wants to see from his offense. It has a chance of working. I still do not see how the defensive side of the ball will be improved.

There is zero chance Saunders does anything. Been there and done that in Washington

"Fin D wrote:

Of course you fire the boss if he's effing up.

But how are the coordinators not effing up on this team as well? How are they doing a good job?

They aren't, but you're saying in spite of the fact that they are doing poorly they can't be fired.

No sir. I'm just saying I don't know if it's the best idea to butcher the whole coaching staff without having knowledgeable replacements at this time, if we want the team to have a better chance at turning it around this year..

"2socks wrote:

There is zero chance Saunders does anything. Been there and done that in Washington

Zero chance is absolute certainty. I do not care how much history you have on a situation. Zero chance does not exist. I will accept you believe it is highly unlikely. I will wait to see the effect of the change.

Interesting, wonder if this means more of a traditional power based blocking scheme?

It makes -0- sense to have Dallas Thomas playing (if at all) in a scheme that relies on movement and not power, to me that would solve a bunch of blocking issues.

"IdrA wrote:

No sir. I'm just saying I don't know if it's the best idea to butcher the whole coaching staff without having knowledgeable replacements at this time, if we want the team to have a better chance at turning it around this year..

Right, you're saying that the HC, OC & DC have been incompetent, so its ok to fire the HC but it would hurt the team to fire the OC & DC.

Im honestly not trying to break your balls, but on what planet does that NOT say the OC & DC are more important than the HC?

'Consultant' is a very broad term. Has anything been specified about his role? He could be being brought in at the higher levels to help Tannenbaum or Ross evaluate the offense overall in planning ahead, or he could be being brought in as a resource for Campbell to draw upon as and when, or it could be just one more cook being brought in to spoil the broth.

The bottom line here is that none of us have any idea exactly what's going on. From my perspective the Dolphins just got hugely experimental and should treat it that way, better to clean out as much as possible, and start from a clean position than continue to mix things up. Worse case scenario in terms of performance is that we continue to lose - and if that happens, we get a higher draft pick - silver lining! So why not use this season as a chance to really evaluate what you've got, give the players the motivation to prove themselves because changes are coming and they'll only want the best. Make it competitive.

"Fin D wrote:

If it makes sense to change the HC midseason (and it did) then it also makes sense to change coordinators mid season. If not, then the coordinators are more important than the HC.

They might be, depending on the HC. IMO they are at least as important and usually more. Even Shula became a pretty average coach after he lost Arnsparger. Some of my reasons for optimism this preseason was the belief that Philbin would get out of Lazor's way and we'd see the run heavy offense he favored in VA and what Philly's offense is supposed to be like. I hoped Philbin would be an administrator b/c as a coach I saw lots of potential for him to become a negative factor. I also thought Coyle would be smart enough to not torpedo the talent we had on D. I clearly underestimated the stubbornness of Philbin and Coyle.

"Fin D wrote:

Right, you're saying that the HC, OC & DC have been incompetent, so its ok to fire the HC but it would hurt the team to fire the OC & DC.

Im honestly not trying to break your balls, but on what planet does that NOT say the OC & DC are more important than the HC?

I'm not saying it makes sense, or that it is fair. I'm only considering what's best for the team in present time. I don't want the team the make any hastey decisions we still have a whole bye week to straighten it out and maybe have a small chance to save the season.

I understand that your saying it sends a bad message to fire one head of a three headed dragon. But we also have to remember Lazor/Coyle, as bad as they may have been were working under Philbin. Directly. He should have been correcting them(Coyle)... years ago and he should have straightened out Lazor this year and took over the play calling. The HC has the reigns, on his coaches, and his players. That's why having a good HC is so dang important. He molds not only the team but the rest of his staff.

"Galant wrote:

'Consultant' is a very broad term. Has anything been specified about his role? He could be being brought in at the higher levels to help Tannenbaum or Ross evaluate the offense overall in planning ahead, or he could be being brought in as a resource for Campbell to draw upon as and when, or it could be just one more cook being brought in to spoil the broth.

The bottom line here is that none of us have any idea exactly what's going on. From my perspective the Dolphins just got hugely experimental and should treat it that way, better to clean out as much as possible, and start from a clean position than continue to mix things up. Worse case scenario in terms of performance is that we continue to lose - and if that happens, we get a higher draft pick - silver lining! So why not use this season as a chance to really evaluate what you've got, give the players the motivation to prove themselves because changes are coming and they'll only want the best. Make it competitive.

Management tends to defy logic.

They announced he is the senior offensive assistant... Not sure what that means, i know ross has made up titles before.

Two things on this: It tells me that Dan Campbell is not comfortable handling play calling duties or scheming an offense, which bodes well for Lazor, short term, as I do believe that this move was most likely made after consulting Bill as to what, or who, he would need to be more successful. Dan's role will be to facilitate the mentality, attitude and preparation of the team for games. Which is what we are already seeing in practice with the use of Oklahoma drills, etc.

Reports are that we have reached out to Schiano, Mike Smith, and Jim Schwartz on the defensive side. Coyle is FAR from safe. Personally, I think he should have fired him immediately, named a new DC from the staff and look at one of those aforementioned guys to be a Defensive Consultant similar to Al's role on offense, but I am sure Dan has his reasons. I would tend to shy away from Mike Smith though as the biggest knock on him in Atlanta, was that his teams were soft and ultimately, "played too nice." That seems to be a direct opposite approach of what Dan wants.