You're going to put the blame on Pat White? Ok, fair enough. I'm sure what you said is true and he did screw up the play. But you have to give a big heaping of blame to the offensive coordinator who puts a rookie QB into the game with extremely limited game snaps when your starting QB is playing a fine game. There was no reason for it. You just don't need to call low percentage, high risk plays when your base offense is working just fine. We won the game, so I won't spend all week arguing about the play calling. But some of you insist on defending awful play calls when there is no defense. Sure we wouldn't complain as much if they worked. But it doesn't change the fact that there is just no reason for high risk, low percentage plays when low risk, high percentage plays are working just fine.
I agree and disagree with you . I think the best argument against that play is Henne is playing well so you don't pull him off the field. I can see that side of it. I think even with a player playing well you have to vary it up a little bit, but it's a solid, reasonable argument you make. I don't blame the OC for putting White in there. White had a really good game against the Pats on the road last time. Why wouldn't you have some level of confidence in White going against the Pats at home? I would also argue that the play isn't really that high risk. You run that play 100 times and I think it has less turnovers and negative yards than a reverse ran 100 times or other trick plays. It's a pretty straight forward low risk play if you execute. It's either a dive play to the FB or an option play to the outside. Option plays are somewhat risky but they ate the Pats alive last time so I could see why the OC attempted it. I am going off strictly memory of that Pat White pitch play. I haven't been able to see another replay since the game to confirm that what I thought happen was what actually happened. So I could be way off.
While seeing Pat White in there scares the crap out of me, I do think him going in serves a limited purpose. Henning isn't putting him in there to win this game, he's putting him in there to win the next one. It's a whole package that the next week's team has to prep for, limiting how they prep for other things. To see we're still committed to him affirms to the other team that he's a viable threat that they have to prep for. I mean seriously, how foolish would Belichick have looked if he didn't prep his players for Pat White, and he came in, threw things off, drew offsides calls, or worse, broke loose for a TD? If our offense can't afford to test the waters on two plays a game to see if the opposing defense did their homework, then we have more critical issues than just Pat White.
I believe he accurately put the blame on the 11 on the field that failed in their execution.....little to do with the play call itself. That's the point by many of us (maybe the minority ) is that it shouldnt be judged on whether it equated to positive or negative yards...it should be judged on the execution of the playcall itself. PW and the 10 on the field with him, are capable of NFL success, the group has proven it. In this case, the Staff should trust anyone on the field at a given time...we have 53 for a reason. It comes down to execution only...and I will be the first to point out when execution was bad but we were fortunate (and have only to be told "why complain the play worked, etc"). We need to stop judging a play's success on the call itself....I just scratch my head over this OPINION only based logic with no effort to watch the 11 and see what is really happening. What is low risk or high risk to you is very much not the same to Henning or Sparano based on hours of practice and ability of the athletes on the field. The breakdown ANALYSIS and CRITIQUE of what mbmonk detailed on the play has far more to do with the failure of the play than PW all by himself.
Pure speculation and not based on any facts. PW has contributed to us winning games. What do you see watching all 11 guys perform when he is in the game to make you decide he isnt worthy of NFL game time? Tough crowd is right! Come on guys, why rip a kid that has produced and is asked to perform a role and has done it successfully...he isnt turning the ball over, he has gain positive yards for the # of touches to date, so it cant be that. Why rip a rookie who has earned his time based on what coaches see in practice and the pistol package designed for him??
I get your larger point BigDogs, that Pat White has done mostly positive things for our team. I think there are people who just didn't like the Pat White draft pick and they are going change their minds unless he turns into an all pro. I think it's a fairly safe speculation to say that the Pats had to prepare for Pat White this game and that took time away from game planning Henne. When you face the Dolphins you have to account for RB direct snaps w/ a QB as a wideout, Unbalanced lines, Pat White, and then you still have to fit in how you are going to gameplan our more conventional offense. The Pats have an easier time of preparing for us because they see us 2 times a year every year, so they have a really good idea of who we are and what we do, just due to that fact alone. Where as a teams that aren't in the AFC East have to do a lot of homework to get ready for us. I am hoping the Jags are spending time game planning White and the option plays and that leaves less time for game planning Henne Cannot wait until the Jax game!
Sure it's speculation, but there really isn't any concrete proof to say what the team plans on using Pat White for right now. If they thought he was a legitimate threat in games, we'd likely see him more often. That's why I believe that he's more of a diversion to force opposing offenses to prepare for 3+ people taking direct snaps. I forget which game it was, I think it was one of the Jets games, where we pulled 3-4 offside penalties just because of the change up under center. Thats what I see the biggest benefit of Pat White being so far. But yes, it is pure speculation, and could be completely wrong. Sorry if I came off as presenting it as fact, that wasn't my intention at all.
Ahh Fandom and Fanactics and the life of a ROOKIE!!! That's just it....we use all of that in a game cause it works over the course of the touches....and yes, by using it, its something that has to be accounted for. The flipside is if you SHELVE any aspect of it, you are harming both aspects if the Coaches feel based on what they see and know, both options help this team in the short and long term for the foreseable future. It doesnt mean you have to use it each and every game, and that I can agree with, but you have to use it sporadically (which is what I would label the combo or traditional WC and PISTOL formations)....both dont have to be used, but mixing them him can aide in the current game (which has been proven factual) and can aide in the future (which is speculation, but has a proven high statiscal probablity of success and points). Ronnie has lessoned the Traditional WC...as was said, a Pro Bowl RB, faking or giving it to a Pro Bowl RB is a huge advantage. We dont have that anymore...but we still have the PISTOL and PW is valuable to the overall approach, and I wager we could still see pure WC (sans JET Sweep) with Ricky when the coaches see somethign from the booth that could produce success if executed correctly.
Hahaha...Good point....!!!! Tough to stop pointing out the obvious.... (removed to lesson the effect) Until a smily gets created to show a guy "biting his lip/tongue and turning red" I should just use these 3 combo'd!!!
Are people seriously defending Pat White coming in at QB? Only place Pat White has on this team is as a WR/QB/RB type of multi-positional x-factor. And that's after a couple years in the weight room. Putting White in the game at this point in time is just incredibly stupid. Especially when Henne is doing great.
Henne got 52 pass attempts in this game. FIFTY TWO! Henne got the ball all he wanted in this game. More than any QB could ask. I give up. Enjoy the thread everyone.
And your point is? It should have been 54 then because those Pat White plays could of been disasters, and one of them almost was. Not to mention 52 was too many to begin with as the Pats caught on and forced us to go three and out a couple times in pass, pass, pass, punt drives.
This is a funny thread, Our O is the absolute best at scoring TDs in the red zone, and yet that senile old SOB has no clue as to what he's doing. Has anyone attacking ever played Pop Warner or have any idea why to attack the guy. Sounds to me that we have a mob mentality, with no one really having any idea why Henning is bad, just seems to be the thing to do. Dispute a call, if ya like. However, remember all the other calls that make us the best in the red zone. Guess they were not worth mentioning. As to White, if you're comparing QBs, Henne was a bust last year and, by the QB views of some, should have been cut and was a wasted pick. Why is White different?
Seriously can somebody come in and defend Henning. I need a good laugh after what the hell just happened.
I don't blame the fumble on Henning at all. However whether he fumbled or not, I do find that to be a curious play call.
As critical as I've been of Henning, that fumble was on Bess. Was it the best play call in the world? No. But it's a routine end around around the 40 yard line. Nothing like that HB pass on the goalline.
Nice try. But not buying it one bit. Henne is throwing great passes and we run an end around under 2 minutes to Devonne Bess. Not Ted Ginn, but Devonne Bess. Again, not buying it.
In some circumstances I like the end around. However considering the time left in the half, how hot your QB is, the groove you are in, I don't think it was a very good call. However I don't want him fired or anything.
by blaming the oc you are basically saying he put bess in the position to make a fumble. id say thats ridiculous. you can stomp your feet and pout all you want won't make what you are saying any less ridiculous.
I agree an end around to probally the slowest wr on the team.Please stop doing stupid trick plays when they can not stop our passing game!!!!!!
I'm not saying I like the call, because I don't. But the fact of the matter is if Bess keeps his hands on that ball it's a positive play, and we're walking away from the possession with at least a field goal try.
thats fine. then why would you be as upset as he is at the play call? ill answer for you because he's putting the fumble on the oc.
Guess I can't be mad at you for not wanting him fired. But I'll say it loud and proud, fire this bum before before halftime. Just when I thought fades to Ginn and Cam were bad enough. Just when I thought still using the Wildcat was bad enough. Just when I thought using Pat White was bad enough. Just when I thought HB passes were bad enough. Henning had to once again get too cute for his own good and **** up a nice drive. And just when I started to have a slight bit of faith in Henning for finally discovering slants and shotguns. Hell I was getting impressed with the spread formation we used this game. but to nobody's surprise Henning has his usual horrific playcall to ruin a good drive. Just for good measure, Henning completely blows, being in Weis or any other OC immiediately because playoffs won't come with Henning in town. /rant
Blame a fumble on Henning? When did I do that? I'm rightfully blaming Henning on one of the worst playcalls I've seen to date. What a boneheaded playcall. It is hilarious that people actually bend over backwards to defend his cute playcalling. Absolutely hilarious
its hilarious that you are trying to deny you aren't ranting and raving because bess fumbled. had bess not fumbled you would be saying.........
Wrong again. The blame is on Henning for doing an end around to BESS of all people, under 2 minutes. If it was Ginn, I'd be less pissed because Ginn has actually had success on end arounds, but it would still be a horrible playcall nonetheless. Oh did I mention the beautiful throws by Henne that drive? Glad we decided to pass up the hot hand (Henne) for an end around to Bess.
Had Bess not fumbles it still would have been a loss of 5+ yards and I would have still been absolutely pissed on what was one of the worst playcalls I've seen this year. This says a lot because Henning is consistent in getting to cute for his own good, thus resulting in horrible playcalls ruining drives.
