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Fire the conditioning coaches?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by cobrajet, Aug 5, 2010.

  1. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    I don't know about anyone else but am I the only one really concerned with the injury bug?

    Tony Sporano told us when he took the team over that the repeating injuries this team had suffered year after year since the mid eighties was due to poor conditioning. There was a stat that I couldn't lay my hands on for this post that Miami was the most injured team in the NFL every year.(if I can remember where I put this article I will post it)

    When the Parcell regime took over he replaced the conditioning coaches with new ones and we all saw an instant reduction in the teams injuries. Result? A great season; one of the greatest "turn-arounds" of any NFL teams in history. So from this we can conclude that you must have your players on the field to win (pretty simple)

    Fast forward to today: Four days into camp and already we have three players out for the year. Merling, Sheets and now Edds (did I forget anyone?) If this injury thing keeps up at this rate by day twenty we will have twelve players out all before our first game.:sad: The part that I find most ironic is that all of these injuries seem to be identical: Achilles' tendon tears.

    Thus far we have escaped injuries to our core players but at this rate our luck cannot continue. Is it time again to change our conditioning coaches to solve this problem? Or should we wait until 1/2 of our OL and DL go down and three of our RB's?

    What is your opinion?
     
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  2. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Merling was injured away from the field.

    I don't think having two injuries up to this point is really that bad. Its football.
     
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  3. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    If these three injuries were spread out among the whole training camp, would it alleviate your worries at all? To me, it depends on whether it becomes a trend or not. If we get no additional season enders before the end of TC, then I'm not going to worry about it...just chalk it up to freakiness. If we end up with a few more, then I'll have similar concerns.
     
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  4. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    Thanks, and forgive me if my facts were wrong, summer has me away from the board more than usual. Are these injuries just flukes or real concerns?
     
  5. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Its hard to say whether achilles or ACL injuries are flukes or not. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't.
     
  6. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    I think that is a very good answer. I have no interest in seeing us return to the Shula days where the poor guy had 8 key injuries out before the season even started. Shula was a coaching GOD but his teams always suffered in the injury dept. It never stopped him from winning but it sure didn't help him.
     
  7. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    Bro, these are the guys that took us from leading the league in players on IR in 2007 to arguably the healthiest team in the league in 2008. ;)

    This regime breeding toughness into its players also played a part, as guys admittedly played thru things they'd have sat out with previously. But you hear it all over the league; the Dolphins are as strong and physical a team as there is in the NFL.

    Our offseason conditioning program is brutal. That's the other thing we heard so much about in 2008. How veterans, both new and holdovers, said it was beyond anything they'd ever experienced. And you have Parcells silently walking around the weight room, creating tension.

    It's exactly what BP ordered up. They focus on a lot of exercises that he believes in (such as deadlift and squat).
    This team is in shape and has been going on three years. This is a man's game with a 100 percent injury rate. They all get hurt and they all play hurt. Sometimes it's season ending. And that happens to every team. But when you're in shape, the odds of these season-ending deals decreases significantly because you're body isn't as tired.
     
  8. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    When you say "fire the conditioning coaches" you are saying fire Parcells.
    These guys are Parcells guys from the year that you championed.

    http://www.miamidolphins.com/content/evan-marcus

    http://www.miamidolphins.com/content/dave-puloka

    The focus in that weight room is Power lifting (squats, dead lifts, and such). Some veterans claim that it is the single greatest reason for their shortened careers as it rapidly deteriorates the muscles. In their minds, Parcells does not care about the length of their career. He cares about the productivity during their careers.

    The NFL and College is full of conditioning coaches who no longer subscribe to a strict regimen of free weights. I could give a hoot what he's doing. Parcells produces a winner and he's paying them a damn fine sum to "lift all them weights". Sure there will be some casualties but might I remind you of the difference.

    http://dolphinsindepth.blogspot.com/2008/05/importance-of-parcells-conditioning.html

    [​IMG]
     
  9. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    I am NOT a doctor; but IMHO Achilles injury would seem to be due to improper stretching techniques combined with poor conditioning. But the physical wound is always better mended than the mental wound.

    Once a player is injured his body mends but his mind never does. He always holds back in fear of a repeat injury and that is the reason most players are never the same afterward. There have been exceptions but most times it is the end of the road.
     
  10. Jeff

    Jeff A.S.E. Mastur

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    Plantation

    For the record, A.J. Edds injury was an ACL tear(his right knee).
     
  11. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    OK - maybe I am wrong about this one. Lets just hope the injuries stop and quickly, and lets hope we don't have to revisit this issue in a few weeks. I am starting to get concerned.
     
  12. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    Another point....and this may not mean anything....but it's something I found interesting.

    Edds - rookie, first offseason in program
    Sheets - second year, first offseason in program
    Merling - reportedly lazy via teammates, injured outside of team

    This is probably all coincidence. And I don't know 'how' each guy got hurt (tangled, slipped, etc.). But if any 'body' is most prone to a 'fatigue' injury, you'd think it'd be a younger player whose body might not be quite 'NFL' yet. The South Florida heat/humidity is no joke and can wear you down quick. A lot of times a guy needs a couple of years to truly get his body where it needs to be.

    Hopefully we don't get the chance to further examine the trend.
     
  13. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    Never in this whole thread did I say or mean to insinuate that they should fire Bill Parcells.
     
  14. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    knee jerk over reaction anyone :wink2:
     
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  15. ILPhinFan88

    ILPhinFan88 Premium Member Luxury Box

    Thats what I was gonna say, two of the guys were new to the team they hadnt had a chance to complete the conditioning program.
     
  16. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    Very well said:up: This is a man's game.
     
  17. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    This guy wants to train you.......

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Injuries are going to happen whether we have the best conditioning coaches and trainers availible or not. Our coaches can direct our players to stay to a strict conditioning program but its up to them to follow it on the field and off. Sometimes these injuries happen because the player did not properly prepare beforehand and thus got hurt. Other times its how they were hit by opposing players or how their leg came down after jumping for a ball. Bottomline is stuff happens and its not neccesarily because our coaches aren't doing their jobs or are misguided in their approach.
     
  19. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    not to worry
    these guys know how to condition a team to play football
    the weak are weeded out, the unlucky go to the wall
     
  20. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    I dont know if id ever really call an on the feild injury a "fluke" in football. I think people sometimes forget out intense and dangerous the game can be regardless of how well conditioned/healthy/in shape an athlete is. The fans tend to look at the pros and sometimes think theyre superhuman. Yes, they are some of the most 'in-shape' people in the world but they still are human. When you are playing football an injury is possible on any play. There are injuries that can be caused from lack of fitness or even lack of focus but mostly the injuries that happen in the NFL are due to the mere fact that the players are just playing the game and it happens.
     
  21. AbideN703

    AbideN703 Yes, I'd hit it

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    How do you prevent a guy from tearing his ACL when he returns a kick without being touched?
     
  22. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    My opinion is that we have an outstanding history as a staff and posts like this are :tantrum:
     
  23. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    A lot of injuries are just about luck. That's why you see such a fluctuation in injuries from teams year to year.
     
  24. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    CJ I thought maybe you should read this regarding Andrew Hartline's progress before you throw the strength and conditioning coaches under the bus:
    ......."I'm stronger," he said. "I can't tell you how gratified I am toward the strength coaches here. I came in and they gave me a workout that was just unbelievable. I put on probably five or six pounds of muscle and stayed the same body fat. They pushed me every day trying to make me better. I owe a lot of my abilities this your to them because they made me a hell of a lot stronger."...

    Read more: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...ice-at-dolphins-camp-today.html#ixzz0vmPZ8VBs
     
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    What veteran player ever said doing deadlift or squats shortened his career?

    I don't buy it for a minute. If anything the increased muscle mass one gets from doing multi joint free weight exercises would likely lengthen their careers, everything else being equal.
     
  26. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Too early to say.

    We're also not the only team experiencing injuries. Ours just happen to be affecting the bottom of the roster, guys like Edds and Sheets. Denver just lost Dumervil, Philly has had scares with both Jeremy Maclin and DeSean Jackson, etc.

    We're fine. 2008 was a miraculous year in terms of the extremely low injury rate. We're never going to achieve that again. It's just the reality of football.
     
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  27. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    Well; I can see I really stirred the pot, but I didn't mean to. All I said was that prior to this regime we had a horrid injury prone team (Shula days) and I was concerned that we were sliding back there. I had no idea that genuine concern could spark such an ugly debate.

    I just love people (not all of you) who never post any threads of their own and just live to tear other peoples threads apart. I am very glad that I could supply those folks with something to "while away the hours".

    Enjoy,

    Cobrajet!
     
  28. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    It depends on the injury and how it occurred.

    ACL is an overload type injury, usually from hyperflexion. The state of the ground is probably more in order to be questioned than the state of the health of the athlete if it is through a non contact event.

    Achilles injuries, and I have had one myself, are usually a result of the tendon being weakened through repeated stresses and eventually failing, this is why it is relatively common in athletes over 30 and less common for athletes under 30. Orthopaedic surgeons often refer to it as an old mans injury.

    Not sure of the circumstances involving the third injury, but the two described so far don't seem directly related to conditioning or otherwise.
     
  29. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    Well boys, like it or not there are more injuries.

    "-- Dolphins Injury Update - Camarillo Tweaks Knee --
    The Miami Herald reports three days after Dolphins RB Kory Sheets tore his Achilles during Wednesday's practice, RB Patrick Cobbs has been sidelined with an injured hamstring, according to a source. Cobbs and Sheets were the two leading candidates to become the team's replacement for WR Ted Ginn as the team's kick returner. Cobbs was also believed to be ahead of Sheets before either of them was injured. The team doesn't yet know when Cobbs will be able to return - whether it will only take a few days to heal or longer - so the situation isn't yet necessarily dire. It could simply turn into a minor setback. In addition to Cobbs, C Jake Grove and WR Greg Camarillo missed the scrimmage. Camarillo had the same knee ''tweak'' from Friday morning that kept him out of that afternoon's practice. Grove's injury is unspecified, although he went through Friday afternoon's practice with no apparent problem. He missed four games last season with an ankle injury. The team is off Sunday and will practice Monday at 9 a.m. in Davie and at 7:15 p.m. in Sun Life Stadium."

    We can now add Cobbs, Grove and Camarillo to the list of the hurt. The injury watch continues, and so does the question mark surrounding the conditioning program / coaches. Are they slacking off this year?
     
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  30. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    Thanks for the info. I didn't agree with your first post on this but the evidence is now beginning to mount as we watch this more and more. Something is different this year with the conditioning program (based on the injuries). Please GOD: stop the injuries!
     
  31. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    I agree that something is different this year. Our guys are getting far too many soft tissue injuries that appear to be from a lack of stretching etc... (IMO). This is not a good sign as we move closer to the season.
     
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  32. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    Thank god there have been no more season ending injuries. But, with that said, bear in mind that our guys just got in full pads a few days ago. That means that some of those injuries happened prior to contact. OuCh! :sad:
     
  33. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not true at all, it takes a while but you get over it, and sometimes your stronger. Each person is different, so I'm not saying its the same for everyone, because its not, but if you have the right makeup and additude, you can come back.
     
  34. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Good question/thread, seemed a bit premature at first but we do seem to have a bit of a rash of injuries at the moment. Lets just hope it settles down before the season starts and we stay healthy thereafter.
     
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  35. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    fire the front office too while your @ it
    lets bring Nick & his Cadre back to fix
    the conditioning problem & toughen these guys up
    give me a break.
    Shula commonly ran 3 brutal practices a day


    think about it...
     
  36. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    ....and here we are again visiting this thread with more injuries....:no:

    -- Dolphins Wednesday Morning Injury Update --
    The Sun-Sentinel reports Dolphins OL Nate Garner is on crutches Wednesday morning. He appears to have injured his left leg during this morning's practice. CB Evan Oglesby (ankle) and LB Tim Dobbins (ankle) both sat out the Wednesday morning practice.



     
  37. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    And you're still overreacting. :lol:

    Garner is potentially serious, but in the end you're talking about a backup lineman. Oglesby might be serious, but he's the sixth cornerback. Dobbins is fine.

    We haven't exactly had an Elvis Dumervil injury yet.
     
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  38. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

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    Admittedly, I am overreacting. I am terrified that we will get robbed out of our just dues in the division due to injuries. It almost appears as though we had no off season conditioning program at all. I know that dumb ankle twists and usual sprains are expected but none of this is the mark of a health team. It would be interesting to see how we rate with injuries compared with the other teams.
     
  39. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    so you are mostly away not paying attention over the summer, no idea what happened and you want the condition coach to be replaced ?....sheeesh
     
  40. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    You are overreacting, so please let the thread die. Injuries happen. Team needs more than talent to make it to the playoffs, it needs luck to stay healthy, plain and simple.
     

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