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Flores FIRED - Grier SAFE (Harbaugh NOT Coming)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jan 10, 2022.

  1. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of good points. Holland appears to be a home run and Wilkins had a break out year, IMO. Waddle had a nice season but was basically a possession receiver. Outside of those 3 and maybe Hunt, AVG, I’m not sure what he’s talking about either.
     
  2. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The question that can be raised would be if Grier was picking bad players, or if Flores just couldn't get them coached up (either himself or with lackluster staff).

    Or both. I guess we will see, and quickly. A new coach should be expected to at least not regress, if not improve and actually make the playoffs.
     
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  3. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    The only reason we were even close is our defense and I’m not convinced someone is going to come in and do what Flo did with this defense.

    Even an offensive guru is walking into a abysmal OL and a game manager QB with a long history of not staying healthy.
     
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  4. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    All the credit for the defense goes to Flores but none of the blame of the offense?

    You can't have it both ways.
     
  5. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The defense was a significant part of the problem for much of the 1-7 streak as much as they were the biggest factor in 8-1.

    Ideally an offensive guru will get significantly more out of the OL and QB (which is likely part of what Grier was impressing on Ross).
     
  6. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    This opens the door for Vic Fangio as DC is we want it. I look for Ross to make a splash or at least a splash in his mind this offseason.
     
  7. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I know but Jones/Howard were banged up which limits what we can do. Davis missed half the season and our run defense is noticeably better when he’s in there. Plus we were relying on 2 rookie starters, one of which was playing a new position. Flo doesn’t get a free pass but I put more of the blame on Grier for his off-season plan.
     
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  8. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Flores deserves a head coaching position
     
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  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Big O interview. He called Flores firing weeks ago
     
  10. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Having the whole day to think about it, Flores probably peaked here as a head coach. I think that's the best he can do.

    I can't see him leading a 12-13 win team.
     
  11. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    All I can say about this right now is...

    Really Ross? You couldn't give us ONE EFFING DAY!? One day to bask in the afterglow of that hot sweaty mess of a love affair that seemed doomed to end with nobody satisfied? And we get to nut all over the pasties face for a walk off? We couldn't have ONE ****ing DAY!?

    *** Hole
     
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  12. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  13. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Good. I don't want to be on the wrong side of the next Hershel Walker trade. Keep the draft picks, keep the cap space, and build from what we have.
     
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  14. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I'll admit that I'm surprised that this came down to a Flo vs Tua debate. I bought into the reports that Ross was hard pressed to obtain Watson, but it appears he was doing so because Flo wanted Watson more than anybody else in the building did. It reminds me of the video of Elandon Roberts telling Tua that the coaches were against him. Maybe it was more apparent in the locker room than it was to me. With that being said, we would have had suitors to take Tua. He would work perfectly in Sean Payton's locker room, not Brees 2.0 but someone who's better than the current gaggle of specialist that the Saints employ as quarterbacks. A lot of teams with better OLs than ours wouldn't mind having a "game manager" under center.
     
  15. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Flores doesn't have anywhere close to the experience or cache to demand that his team give up those kind of assets for one player. You need to be at the Mike Tomlin/John Harbaugh/Sean Payton level before you can try that BS.
     
  16. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    The one good thing about the Flores getting the boot is that I don't have to get my hopes up for the next season and probably a few after....
     
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  17. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, a NFL coaches tenure is tied to having a franchise QB. If Flo didn’t want Tua, he was taken anyways and he didn’t believe he was a franchise QB after 2 years of having him, I can’t blame him for pushing for someone he thought could be. Especially if he believed that meant winning more football games.

    I didn’t like the idea of giving up a massive haul to get him or the character issues. But first round picks under Grier have been completely hit or miss so maybe it should have been considered more seriously.
     
  18. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    The minute the allegations happened the idea of Watson for this season was finished and everyone in the organization should have had the sense to know that.
     
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  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've thought this out some more and came to the conclusion that this was inevitable- Flores was never going to be a long-term coach in Miami. The writing was on the wall the moment we traded Tunsil, traded Minkah, cut Wake and retired names all the way down to Denny. This entire rebuild was about tanking for Tua and even in year one, Flores and Fitzpatrick almost screwed that up by figuring out how to win a few games.

    Looking back, I believe Flores was always meant to be the interim head coach as Grier built his team. They didn't count on Flores actually being a quality guy though and being able to get players like Needham, Van Ginkle and Sieler close to all-pro status. This defense certainly wasn't supposed to happen in 2020 or 2021. And as this defense developed, I think Flores realized that he didn't have to be a "yes man" as the front office got swept up in Tua-mania. He stuck to his guns and prepared this team, regardless of a talent gap.

    I mean, why else does a team so overloaded with draft picks grab that many prospects over guaranteed day-one starters? It makes zero sense if the goal was to win-now. The real goal was to tank for multiple years, fire Flores and bring in Harbaugh once he got tired of college football. I bet that's been the plan all along. Only, Flores must have tore up that memo as he taught Fitzpatrick to throw 40 yard sideline passes with his helmet backwards.

    Guys, after some reflection, I honestly believe that we'll be HEAVILY INVESTED in free agency this year, we'll overhaul the entire line and we'll be making a run for the super bowl. I think that's been the plan all along and I think it probably pissed off the front office something fierce when Flores had the audacity to win 10 games with a rookie team and a washed up quarterback. Flores really messed up our draft boards by trying to win all three seasons and I think that divide is ultimately what cost him his job.

    In short, Flores was doomed the day he was hired. The one thing this front office never counted on was him being able to win with virtually no talent anywhere in the building.
     
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  20. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Umm.. that sounds like a conspiracy theory Key lol. I don't think anyone hires a coach over a 3-year period to "tank" and hire Harbaugh.

    If we had taken Herbert instead of Tua Flores would still be coach. Can't predict that. And Flores did come quite close to getting to the playoffs and keeping his job. No, this is as simple as it looks: Ross and Grier thought Flores might be the right coach for the long term, but we took the wrong QB, didn't make the playoffs and Ross fired Flores after the customary 3-year test period.
     
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  21. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    Haven't watched this yet but just seen it's out... I imagine he's not happy...

     
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  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why wouldn't they? It's very well known that Ross has always loved Harbaugh and coveted him as our coach. The problem has always been timing though. So why not hire a coach during a complete tear-down, fire him once your real coach is available, and tank along the way so you can build a young roster?
     
  23. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    It's a plausible theory only for at most 1 season IMO. In this case, it makes no sense. Look at how the roster changed based on who Flores wanted on the team. So this roster building you speak of is impacted by the coach you think is bad enough that you'll have reason to fire?? Also, getting the right QB is so important you can't just say let that decision be impacted heavily by a coach you don't believe in. Finally, it's really hard to deliberately "tank", especially if you are trying to rebuild the roster properly! The HC isn't going to "tank" without some guarantee on his job, and the players certainly won't. This theory of yours is too implausible.
     
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  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How did Flores impact the QB conversation? He wanted to start Fitzpatrick the first two years, and he wasn't a big fan of Tua. If not for Grier, Fitz may have been our starter this season as well.

    And we did deliberately tank...we tanked more than any team has ever tanked before, LOL. I mean, we fired or traded everyone but X. And let's not forget, when training camp ended in 2019, we signed 15 players off of other team's cuts...meaning we didn't even have enough bodies to make a roster at the end of that initial firing spree by Grier. That's never been done to that extent before.
     
  25. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    Flores should have got fired for not playing rosen. Grier should have got fired for signing fitz in the tank year. Both of these moves resulted in not getting burrow.
     
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  26. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    How did he impact the QB conversation? Who knows what exactly happened (see all the different reports of who wanted which QB), but there's no question everyone agreed that Flores was an important voice in the decision making process on who to take.

    And we certainly didn't "tank more than any team has ever tanked before". If we did we'd have gone 0-16, taken Burrow, and we'd not only be in the playoffs we might be a force to contend with for the next 5-10 years. No this theory of yours makes no sense, not the least because you can always fire any coach you want, regardless of how successful the coach is.
     
  27. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Well they clearly aren't going after Harbaugh

    And I don't think Ross would be patient enough for a 3 year tank and obviously they weren't doing that based the last two free agency periods. They absolutely were not trying to lose after year 1.
     
  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The front office "tanked like no team has tanked before." Flores and Fitzpatrick clearly didn't...and neither did the young rookies who fought for this franchise and stayed engaged. It would have been so easy for this team to quit any of the three years, but that's not what happened and that's 100% on Flores leadership. He's the captain that kept this boat floating.
     
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  29. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why? Because Ross said so? Just like he said we weren't going after Watson...and Ross met with him two days later?

    There's things you have to say to the media to appear politically correct, and denying interest in Harbaugh is one of those things.
     
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  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    So if you admit the HC isn't going to tank, and the players aren't, then you're admitting your theory makes no sense.
     
  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dude- look at that 2019 Miami Dolphins roster and tell me how many games they should have won with it. The answer is clearly zero.

    We were tanking for Tua. You're right, Burrow had one of the best collegiate seasons ever at QB and looked like Montana in the pocket, so he was ultimately the prize. But this team didn't win zero (which is probably a bad thing looking back) because of Flores.
     
  32. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Vegas thought we'd win 4.5 in 2019 and we won 5. And this year Vegas thought we'd win 9 and we won 9. Clearly the expectation by observers that put money on the table was we were NOT tanking over a 3-year period. Your theory makes no sense and doesn't fit the data.
     
  33. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    From PFT:
    Although he’d be wise to pick his next destination carefully, former Dolphins coach Brian Flores could have immediate options for a second act. Beyond the five current vacancies (other than the one in Miami), there could still be more.

    But this isn’t about potentially undecided teams that could still fire, for example, a David Culley or a Joe Judge. This is about the possibility of an owner who had planned to keep the team’s coach deciding to swap out the current coach for Flores, if Flores can be landed.

    It’s a possibility that Simms and I tripped over while discussing the stunning decision by owner Stephen Ross to fire Flores after the Dolphins’ first back-to-back winning seasons since 2002-03, an accomplishment marked by sweeping the Patriots. Of the teams that still have coaches, will one dump its coach for Flores?

    Possibilities, as it relates to non-playoff teams without vacancies, include the Jets, Browns, Ravens, Colts, Texans, Chargers, Giants, Washington, Lions, Falcons, Saints, Panthers, and Seahawks.

    I’d be most curious about the Panthers, and possibly the Seahawks. Maybe even the Jets, given Flores’s success in the AFC East.
     
  34. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    There is zero reason for him to say he doesn't want to be the one to take him from Michigan and then take him from Michigan. He could have just said nothing.

    Although as I say that I am thinking "hmm well Ross is pretty clueless" but still
     
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  35. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I’d like to see what he could do with the Bears defense. I’d become a pseudo Bears fan while/IF we get through another 3-4 years of rebuilding.
     
  36. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    If all of this stuff with Flores wanting Herbert and not crazy about Tua means that they're planning on keeping Tua, I will be extremely bummed.
    However, Ross did go after Watson. so I don't know. They can't go into next year with Tua. They just can't.
     
  37. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/...rticle256841207.html#storylink=mainstage_card

    If you believe this article

    • Flores had a lot of control over roster and signed off on every player on the team
    • Signed off on Tua and Noah picks
    • Wanted more power
    • Had a bad relationship with some players but nothing that sounds bad
    • Him and Tua got along well enough and Tua would have been fine playing under him
    Doesn't really sound like there is any good reason to fire Flores other than possibly creating a power struggle that he shouldn't have and had no need to as he had plenty.
     
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  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    It doesn't fit Grier that Flores really wanted Herbert but was overwritten. Just look how much work Miami put into drafting a running back in 2019 and instead drafted a Flores guy in Iggy and then a lineman. Flores a guy who believes in running back by committee. Look at Hunter Long, a guy Flores was in love with and there was no need for Tight End.

    Grier is a guy who builds consensus. Flores might have preferred Herbert over Tua, but he had to be on board with wanting Tua for the Dolphins to take him.
     
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    My new DJ like conspiracy theory.

    Flores started Tua in 2020 because Gailey and Fitzpatrick were being too uppity and he wanted to show them who is boss on the team.
     
  40. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wherever he goes, I'll be a fan similar to how I am with Tannehill. I don't watch every minute of every game, but I always keep tabs on the Titans and take a look at their stat lines. Hopefully Flores ends up on a team I can root for weekly if this unfolds ugly- preferably in the NFC since I have no favorites there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
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