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Flores & Grier on the Hot Seat

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    A few media outlets are leaking that the beat-down we took against the Ravens was Flores fault for not playing a safety over the top- he intentionally wanted to challenge Jackson to try and throw deep (oops!). That's what led to some in the secondary asking to be traded and it's being reported that he already lost the locker room completely....so this week's game should be telling.

    https://thebiglead.com/2019/09/10/brian-flores-fired-dolphins-nfl/

    The article also says Chris Grier should be fired but gives no basis for those comments (in other words, nobody in Miami said that was a possibility at this point).
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  2. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Who are these multiple players? Haven't seen one yet named. It's one game.
     
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  3. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    If we cut our GM and new head coach one game into a season then we deserved to go 0-16 every year.
     
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  4. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I question the gameplan for the Ravens, while also realizing that this is not an experienced staff regarding playcalling. The staff should have definitely reflected over the past week.

    That being said, it's way too early and the roster turnover was high and late going into the season. This staff should be given at least the entirety of this season, and I'm a believer that they should get 3 years minimum.
     
  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    My guess? Jones. Fitzpatrick. Maybe McCain or Rowe. It's supposed to be three secondary players total and Howard wasn't among them.
     
  6. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    So the guys that got burned all game want to get traded? That’s nice..

    Anyways, Grier should definitely be on the hot seat and Ozzie Newsome should be on speed dial.
     
  7. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    As far as I’m concerned, after Jones refused to come back in and play a game that he’s getting paid very well to play, I’d trade his a** in a second.
     
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  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    They got burned because Minkah was often covering their fastest guy with no help over the top....which is a recipe for disaster. Flores figured that they wouldn't even try to go deep with Jackson though so they played man and focused on generating pressure (which we obviously didn't do well either).

    So yeah, if the report is true then it was Flores fault...but none of the major media outlets jumped on the story either.
     
  9. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Roster issues aside, can we also remember we have a rookie head coach? There are plenty out there who expect a new head coach to just walk in and establish their empire on day one. I disagree. Flores is going to need time to adjust too and that means making mistakes.

    In a sense this is a perfect storm of a rebuild. New QB, new HC and staff, new gm, new roster (almost). There are more moving, new parts here than anywhere else I remember in recent history.

    What's more, all these guys calling for the heads of Grier and Flores, they do know that they're essentially calling for an even more dramatic rebuild? And who do they expect to take the job?
     
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  10. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    If we have 4 or more ugly losses they need to be fired in early December so we can get a head start on the best candidates.
     
  11. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We're tanking. It is clear. Why would you fire the coaching staff for executing the plan to perfection?
     
  12. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, it can't get more dramatic- we have about a dozen role players from last year's team left. And to be perfectly honest, a GM would be salivating to come into Miami with all those draft picks and a completely blank slate...I think that would make us ultra-attractive to any suitor. There's zero reason to fire anyone today because what's done is done, but I can see them both being shown the door late in the season if things go as badly as we expect.

    As for who takes the job? In week 2, nobody. But in week 17? Just about any top candidate looking to build a legacy.
     
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  13. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    "The best candidates", the experienced proven HCs won't give us the time of day so, who are you going to hire?
    Since Wannstadt we have tried an unbroken streak of first time head coached under a "polish the turd" strategy of looking for the next Don Shula. It hasn't worked, in part, because you can't expect a rookie HC to develop into something resembling the Greatest Head Coach Ever in three short years.
    You can't fire Flores after one year because , if you do, we'll be lucky to get a high school coach to consider the job.
     
  14. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    I honestly think that the idea of Flores and Grier getting fired this year or even next is nuts. Ross himself has called for this and said he knows it will take time and has patience and knows it will mean lost years in terms of being competitive. And we're talking about a pretty patient owner.

    In my opinion there is no way at all these guys get fired unless something controversial happens. Not for losing though. Maybe if the players revolt - but only maybe.

    Failing to see this is I think a denial, it ignorance about, reality.

    But perhaps I'm naive.
     
  15. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Please tell me you’re joking.
     
  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Controversial? How about the quarterback you wanted to draft (that you were told wasn't a good player) dropping 59 on you in the opening game- against a head coach that's supposed to be a defensive mastermind? It's not a far stretch to assume that Ross was furious after that game.

    That one contest alone showed Ross his leaders weren't who he thought they were. So if things get worse as the season rolls along, I really don't think it would take much for him to change his mind entirely.
     
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  17. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    How can any front office or head coach be evaluated accurately when they are intentionally putting inferior talent on the field and have communicated their intentions in such a way that it very likely makes the players play with considerably diminished effort?
     
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  18. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Again not one player has been named that said "reportedly" said this. This maybe fake news and everyone is eating it up.
     
  19. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    I'm honestly shocked at that analysis Key. You're still taking like the Dolphins are expected to be competitive this year. I know that's your passionate belief and I'm not saying you're wrong to believe that things should be that way, but the reality is that they are not expected to be competitive this year. Whether or not it's right the Dolphins are not expected to be competitive this year. So the blow out loss really means nothing in terms of evaluation. That's not to mention the Ravens dropped, what... 40 on us last year? No. There's no way Ross is evaluating Flores in terms of wins and losses or even blow outs. If anything the evaluation will be 100% internal - is the team getting better over the season, in Flores communicating well, etc.

    Everything Ross has said supports this and I've heard nothing to the contrary.
     
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  20. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    One thing that has me curious regarding that news from PFT is why would an agent leak that information anyway? IMO, it would be doing his client a disservice. I think it would have been better to keep things private between Grier and themselves and when a deal was worked out have the player move on. By leaking it, any player traded or released any time soon probably will be labeled as a guy who quit on his team, etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    We'll see over the coming months, but I do know that each loss is extremely personal to Ross. Like i said earlier, I don't think he had any clue we'd be this horrible and I guarantee you that he took the Ravens blowout personally.
     
  22. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    IMO this is just clickbait.. stuff to talk about till the next game. I also don't think you can lose a locker room after your 1st game coaching lol. And Ross is a very patient person (almost to a fault) so no he's not going to overreact based on some bad losses. He thinks long term and a bunch of embarrassing games isn't going to sway him from Tank for Tua (or whoever else we think is best).
     
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  23. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Are you forgetting the conversation as to why Gase left ? Not that I wanted him to stay but maybe Flores agreed to something that Gase wanted no part of. So WHY would Ross take Flores first game personally ?
     
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  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Two reasons.

    1) Ross is a complete moron.
    2) Ross had no idea trading all our top talent would lead to complete beat-downs and embarrass him in front of important clients in his owners box. If you need further details to understand this point, please see #1.
     
  25. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    You're not thinking rationally lately Key, that concerns me.:huh:
     
  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Maybe because in recent years, we've talked about football. Now, we're talking about running a business that's intentionally tanking while trying not to completely lose the locker room (employees) or the fans (customers). Those are two completely different subjects.

    I don't have a lot of "inside information", but I told this board six months ago that Adam Gase wasn't fired. There was a clear division of beliefs and a lot of folks inside Dolphins headquarters didn't care for this strategy. Those people are gone now. Nobody saw it being this bad though- including Ross. He was advised that we'd be around a 5-6 win team, we'd take a few lumps, then we'd be competing for rings for the next 15 years. Grier 100% sold him on this concept and Ross handed over the keys to the kingdom.

    As I've said many times- maybe this works and we're a great team for a decade. I really hope it does. But I don't believe that Ross fully understood what he was signing up for.
     
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  27. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    They could still be a 5 to 6 win team. The Ravens are supposed to be one of the best teams in the league. Two years ago the Ravens, then a lesser team than they are currently, beat the Dolphins 40-0 when there was no tanking going on.
     
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  28. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    We barked up the wrong coaching tree. We should have been in Andy Reid's back yard.
     
  29. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Here are some quotes from Stephen Ross:
    "We’ve been operating under a philosophy that we had a good young roster and it needed maybe free agents and draft choices and we’d be very competitive." Ross said. "To keep operating under that philosophy would be like the definition of insanity: doing the same thing and really expecting a different result. So I thought it was time for the organization to take a different approach, much like when I do in my business. I know everything I’ve done, we’re always the best-in-class and we’re on top, and that’s what I expect to be on the football field as well as an organization."

    "Basically, the thought is we’re going to look to really build this organization based on our needs," He said. "And if it takes a year or so – two years, three years – we’re going to be there and we’re going to be an organization."

    "Chris (Grier) will have total responsibility of leading the organization." Ross said. "He will work together with a new coach. He will make all football decisions and report to me. I think that as we build this roster, we have a great young roster today with some key players to build upon, but we’re going to build it the right way, bringing in new people who will want to win, really creating that winning attitude."

    "If you look back, look what we’ve done every year since I’ve been here." Ross said. "If we keep doing that, where are we going to be? We’ll be anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6. That’s not good enough. I would hope I don’t have to go 3-13; but whatever it’s going to take, we’re going to build that organization with the right players that want to win. They’re coming here to win.”

    Source: Luis Sung piece on Phinmaniacs

    Youtube Press Conf. With Ross for quotes - 11mins long - Here

    -------------------------------------

    “I think they’re smart fans, they love football,” Ross said Tuesday during the NFL meetings in Phoenix. “I’m going to build it and build it the right way like I built all my organizations. I think the fans really embraced that. You’ve seen by not doing it that way, it doesn’t work. So fans are sophisticated. They got it.”

    “After last season, I said this isn’t working,” Ross said. “And the more we talked about it after the season, I just came to the conclusion we have to change. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is insanity, right?

    “And it’s more me finding the right people and having them working together as a team. I really feel good about it. Brian, I think, is a really quality guy, and Chris, our team is really working together like I’ve never seen it before.”

    “You’ve seen by not doing it that way, it doesn’t work. So fans are sophisticated. They got it.”

    “Every coach comes in because they know they’re on a short cycle — at least they think so — and they say they got to spend the money on some big free agents or guys they knew,” Ross said.

    “And, hey, so where do we go? We went anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6. You’re never going to build long term. [But] sure, if you have the great quarterback, that helps.”

    “I’m looking to kind of build for the future, have a great team, develop players and create a really winning mentality,” Ross said.

    Source - piece by Safid Deen on the Sun Sentinel. Link include a video interview with Ross stating the above.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    "“The biggest thing we’ve had here over the years … We went 10-6, then we had the injuries, and we suffered 6-10 and 7-9s … It’s just consistency and knowing who you want to be,” Ross said. “You’ve always talked about what kind of team you want to be, but as Steve said, there’s times where you get caught up in some things where you may sign something, or you stray from that. But if you have a vision for what your team wants to be, you stay with it and you build it the right way. You can build winners in this league and guys have shown that across the league.”

    “I think we have a lot of great players (and) a great nucleus to form,” Ross said. “When we win on a sustainable basis – I can’t tell you which year that is going to be – but we’re going to do what it takes to build the organization piece by piece, so that we have the right players that will be here to build that winning tradition, or bring it back.”

    “I would hope I don’t have to go 3-13, but whatever it’s going to take, we’re going to build that organization with the right players that want to win,” Ross said. “They’re coming here to win.”

    Source Antwan Stanley - DolphinsWire

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    And then this Eric Frossbutter on FanSided's PhinPhanatic

    "When asked why he fired Adam Gase, Ross stated, “Adam wants to win and win now. He’s in his fourth year and I think every coach in his fourth year has to win”. It may have seemed like an odd response, and one that Ross should have probably reiterated better, but essentially, it’s because Gase is in win-now mode, with no interest in a rebuilding process. Ross, on the other hand, understands that his team is not just a year away, and he wants the Dolphins to start building with younger players.

    Ross did state that he doesn’t want Miami to go 3-13, but if that’s what it takes then so be it. In reality, that may indeed be what it takes in order for Miami to become a contender again. He made it clear that the days of signing older free agents to plug in positions rather than fixing them are over. With that in mind, Dolphins fans can expect the organization to part ways with a number of veterans this off-season."
     
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  30. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Challenging Jackson to throw isnt a bad idea.

    The problem is he was never challenged. No pass rush and all day in the pocket with poor downfield coverage and any decent college QB would look like Jackson last Sunday.
     
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  31. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Stephen Ross had very little credibility as an owner going into this restructure. The hell do you think is going to happen if you blow it up after a year after telling everyone who would listen that you don't care about winning in 2019 and that you're committed to long-term building? Who do you think you're going to turn around and get to take the job after that?

    Your last three GMs were Dennis Hickey(who was like your 5th choice), Mike Tannenbaum(who was out of football and had no other prospects and ingratiated himself with the owner), and your current internal candidate.

    Your last head coaching search involved interviewing Dennis Allen and your ****ing Special Teams coach. You had one of the candidates for the job have their agent leak that the job wasn't desirable, but that minority candidates have to take every chance they get seriously in the NFL. It's possible that was the guy who ended up taking the job.

    Unless your next restructure involves Stephen Ross leaping off of that ugly ****ing sculpture he built at the center of Hudson Yards, you've basically got as radioactive a job as you're going to get in the NFL since Al Davis was dead senile.
     
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  32. Electric Boogaloo

    Electric Boogaloo Inventor of the question mark

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    If I could like this 3 times I would. Belichick school of thought is to take away what you do well. Completely reasonable to make Lamar pass to beat you. Chess game we lost because he did. You can’t scheme against everything without being mediocre at everything. Might have had us competitive if our GM had fielded an NFL pass rush, instead of what we’re putting out there.

    Never seen it before, but I view the first half of the season as an extended pre season camp. Bring in bodies to discover players that got missed by a 53 man roster and keep turning over to find diamonds in the rough for future depth. Hard to watch, but an aggressive approach to rebuilding from the ground up.
     
  33. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    On one of his long passes. He literally stood and bobbed in the pocket for at least 7 seconds without even being close to being sniffed.
     
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  34. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    He could've made a sandwich, toasted and all, in the pockets he had.
     
  35. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    It is nearly impossible that Grier and or Flores will be let go after the season. This season is basically a lost season. I think they believed it would not be as bad as they showed last week, but they tore it down a little too far.

    Regardless this is their plan and hopefully we come out the other side a better more competitive team.
     
  36. IdrA

    IdrA Rebuilding for Eternity.

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    Lol that would be hilarious if he was fired after 2 games. Would that be a record? Lolphins may as well go for all the unimpressive records this year.

    I bet most people didn't even know who Flores was before the rumor mill got started last year. I know I didn't. Not many people know the names of other team's positional coaches lol. And then of course you have the (under Belichick) coaches bad omen... never successful.
     
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  37. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I honestly tried to look on the bright side of Flores, but some of what hes done and how unprepared we have looked basically every game hes coached preseason to now...hes losing me.

    Granted I know he doesnt have tons to work with, but it goes down to his coaching demeanor too.
     
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  38. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, I'm not convinced Jackson is a good QB myself. He had literally all day to throw. There were some pockets I'm pretty sure he could still be standing in now if he didnt throw the ball.
     
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  39. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Tanking works in theory but ignores the human component. These guys are out there sacrificing their bodies for a guy who told them that they were playing to win. They now know they were lied to. They are pawns in a greater plan that likely does not involve them. If Flores loses the locker room, what do you do? We are gonna have a lot of new players next year, but there will be some guys that come back. People talk. People will say Flores can't be trusted. In fairness, there is some level of truth to that. Your past sticks with you.
     
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  40. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Read my sig, dude.
     
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