Food for thought: Best FA Qb class..ever?

I don't see how any of those guys you listed are all that different from "Gradkowski" types...except for more opportunity...

This is depressing.

"DePhinistr8 wrote:

I don't see how any of those guys you listed are all that different from "Gradkowski" types...except for more opportunity...

Garrard and Young were both pro bowl Qb's.

"GridIronKing34 wrote:

This is depressing.

Its okay we got some wins we will be k.

"GridIronKing34 wrote:

This is depressing.

Well griddles, to me I like to have all of the options examined, Draft, Internally, Free Agency.

Objectively speaking, this many Qb's who have had success hitting FA at the same time rarely happens so it should be looked at in the cold, objective, light of who they will be, and if they would make since for us.

Those QBs you mention will make fine backups. Nothing more. Good NFL franchises recognize the importance of the QB position. QBs you can win with as your starter do not hit the free agent market anymore except in the very rare occasion where a team has 2 very good QBs on their roster. We could see this if the Colts do indeed draft Andrew Luck... Peyton Manning in a Phins uniform? Now that I wouldn't mind seeing.

"padre31 wrote:

Garrard and Young were both pro bowl Qb's.

So what? They can't get on the field now..and were both "selected" when all the other QBs said "no thanks" to playing.

"MonstBlitz wrote:

Those QBs you mention will make fine backups. Nothing more. Good NFL franchises recognize the importance of the QB position. QBs you can win with as your starter do not hit the free agent market anymore except in the very rare occasion where a team has 2 very good QBs on their roster. We could see this if the Colts do indeed draft Andrew Luck... Peyton Manning in a Phins uniform? Now that I wouldn't mind seeing.

Not neccessarily, a couple had just worn out their welcome, take Garrard for example, he had a bad back and they had drafted Gabbert, at 9 million per yr it made little sense to keep him.

Can toss Jason Campbell's name in their as well, injured, Raiders pushed in heavily for Palmer, makes no sense to keep him.

"padre31 wrote:

Not neccessarily, a couple had just worn out their welcome, take Garrard for example, he had a bad back and they had drafted Gabbert, at 9 million per yr it made little sense to keep him.

Can toss Jason Campbell's name in their as well, injured, Raiders pushed in heavily for Palmer, makes no sense to keep him.

Good point on Garrard...but a bulging disc..yikes he might be done. The other guys just don't give me the warm fuzzies. I'd just assume keep Henne around in a backup role than sign Campbell, but I know that would probably never happen.

Smith, Young, Garrard, Orton, do not represent an upgrade to Henne

Young will always be intriguing .... if you really want to talk FA QBs - the real steal would be Brees ...

we are developing a very nice stable of options for any QB .... fix the line, a healthy Thomas, a real 2d option at RB, and i think a 2d year under Daboll would be pretty good for whomever our QB is.

"PHINANALYST wrote:

Smith, Young, Garrard, Orton, do not represent an upgrade to Henne

Young will always be intriguing .... if you really want to talk FA QBs - the real steal would be Brees ...

Disagree, to my mind a FA Qb is kind of like used car shopping, you are there because you are not happy with your old car, ie, Henne.

we are developing a very nice stable of options for any QB .... fix the line, a healthy Thomas, a real 2d option at RB, and i think a 2d year under Daboll would be pretty good for whomever our QB is.

I think we will need another Wr and hope to see CClay develop at Te, and the point behind this thread is much depends on the coach we bring in, for example when Harbaugh went to SF, he passed on Gabbert and stuck with Smith to the surprise of everyone.

A new HC may want to go with a Vet Qb, so why not look at the options on the market? Imvho there are good options this yr, far better then what is normally on the market.

"padre31 wrote:

Well, I've thought about this a bit, and is this best FA Qb class since FA began?

That's not hyperbole, iirc there have been only 3 good Qb who switched teams via FA and even made the playoffs or won playoff games

-Kurt Warner in 07 or so
-Drew Bress in 06
-Rich Gannon in the late 90's

Too early to say on Ryan Fitzpatrick

This yr Smith, Young, Garrard, maybe Orton, heck you could even toss Henne in there. Usually FA for Qb's means Brad Gradkowski's types.

Any potetential FA Qb's whose names peak your interest?

You're reaching Padre. Smith is intriguing because he is playing fairly well, but I see 49ers resigning him. Young, Garrard and Orton and Henne?
We've had the debate over VY over and over, we just agree to disagree there. Garrard is retired and has serious enough back issues that he's not playing anymore
Orton showed his extreme mediocrity this year like I thought he would. He's only marginally, at best, better than Henne.

IMO, this FA class is no different than any other mediocre QB class.

and you forgot to mention Joe Montana in your original post. He went to Kansas City and carried them to the AFC championship.
Brett Favre switched teams and had a couple of very good seasons.
Randall Cunningham had that great season in Minnesota.
Brad Johnson went to Washington (pro-bowl) and then went to Tampa and won a superbowl.

"padre31 wrote:

Not neccessarily, a couple had just worn out their welcome, take Garrard for example, he had a bad back and they had drafted Gabbert, at 9 million per yr it made little sense to keep him.

Can toss Jason Campbell's name in their as well, injured, Raiders pushed in heavily for Palmer, makes no sense to keep him.

Garrard and Campbell are QBs that you can call serviceable, but they'll never win games for you without an outstanding running game. You can't put a team on their shoulders. And neither will ever win a superbowl as a starter. I know, I shouldn't say ever, but I'd bet an awful lot of money on it. Why on earth would you want to settle for QBs like this? If you want 10 more years of mediocrity or flat out awful seasons, choosing to pick our starting QB out of this crop of average to awful FA options is the exact way to do it.

I don't mind you mentioning FA QBs as a back up, or stop gap if whatever QB we draft in the first round isn't NFL ready. But to suggest we try to find a starting QB among this FA group is lunacy, in my very humble opinion and shows a complete lack of understanding of just why we've been so bad the past dozen years. Especially post 2005. You can't consistently win without a very good or great QB. The best way to find the next great QB is to draft one. And every other team in the NFL knows this so you have to draft one early.

Edited to add: If Matt Moore can continue to play like he has the past 2 games, I'm not sure any of these FA options would make a better back up or stop gap than him.

I don't see any of those guys being a major upgrade over Moore. I'd rather have a young Qb we draft with a ton of potential than to recycle any of these guys. I doubt seriously that Alex Smith is going anywhere after this season he'd be the only one that I think would be an upgrade and he's still hit or miss every Sunday. Vince Young is garbage at this point and Garrard is as well.

"MonstBlitz wrote:

Garrard and Campbell are QBs that you can call serviceable, but they'll never win games for you without an outstanding running game. You can't put a team on their shoulders. And neither will ever win a superbowl as a starter. I know, I shouldn't say ever, but I'd bet an awful lot of money on it. Why on earth would you want to settle for QBs like this? If you want 10 more years of mediocrity or flat out awful seasons, choosing to pick our starting QB out of this crop of average to awful FA options is the exact way to do it.

I don't mind you mentioning FA QBs as a back up, or stop gap if whatever QB we draft in the first round isn't NFL ready. But to suggest we try to find a starting QB among this FA group is lunacy, in my very humble opinion and shows a complete lack of understanding of just why we've been so bad the past dozen years. Especially post 2005. You can't consistently win without a very good or great QB. The best way to find the next great QB is to draft one. And every other team in the NFL knows this so you have to draft one early.

Here is the thing MB, and I doubt people realize they are doing this:

How, do you, or anyone else, be they guru or newb member, "know" what a new HC is going to do? How do you "know" we will draft a Qb at all?

Isn't that a fallacy of projection?

"You" want it, so of course, a new Head Coach will want the same thing.

This list of QB's makes me want to wretch. If we are seriously spending another off season discussing the relative merits of Kyle Orton I will start following English Premier League soccer.

There is only one FA qB that makes any sense, and that's Brees. IF the Saints and Brees continue their stare down, and Brees ends up witht he tage, I would at least explore making him an offer and giving up the 2 first rounders if NO didn't match. This is particularly true if we end up in the 6th or 7th pick range rather than 2 or 3.

"padre31 wrote:

Here is the thing MB, and I doubt people realize they are doing this:

How, do you, or anyone else, be they guru or newb member, "know" what a new HC is going to do? How do you "know" we will draft a Qb at all?

Isn't that a fallacy of projection?

"You" want it, so of course, a new Head Coach will want the same thing.

I know what the owner wants, a franchise QB.

And that is either a first round pick or Brees/Manning or some trade that might be out there that we don't know about yet. It does not include Kyle Orton and david Garrard

Padre, normally agree with you, but this sounds like the worst FA QB class..

BTW, while the Bills were actually winning a few games they signed Harvard boy to a long term contract, so scratch him off your list.

Garrard is sooooo 2007..... And if Young and Orton represent the best FA class, then we are either headed for strike season in 2012 with Young and Orton leaving the union as scabs, or I live in some sort of parallel universe :D

"finfansince72 wrote:

I don't see any of those guys being a major upgrade over Moore. I'd rather have a young Qb we draft with a ton of potential than to recycle any of these guys. I doubt seriously that Alex Smith is going anywhere after this season he'd be the only one that I think would be an upgrade and he's still hit or miss every Sunday. Vince Young is garbage at this point and Garrard is as well.

While you were typing your post I edited in that exact statement into my post. If he can keep it up, we would have 0 reason to add any of these re-treads. Matt Moore, while clearly not an elite QB, is proving he is great back up material. And if whoever we draft isn't ready to play, we could probably count on him to fill the gap.

I should also mention I think with all the rules favoring the passing game it's getting much easier for rookie QBs to make the transition from college to the NFL game.

Hasslebeck was a dolphin instead of a seahawk if we call his agent back. He went to a superbowl. Montana was a trade.

None of these "soon to be FA QB's" are starting material in my mind. Backups, sure, thats about it.

We need to draft someone, first round, even if it means trading up to do so. We need to find our guy, develop our guy, and go from there. No more of this picking up other teams trash. Sure there's a risk in taking a QB in the draft, but Id rather take that risk and dare becoming great with a young QB full of potential than one of these been there, done that kind of guys who are serviceable, and nothing more.

"padre31 wrote:

Here is the thing MB, and I doubt people realize they are doing this:

How, do you, or anyone else, be they guru or newb member, "know" what a new HC is going to do? How do you "know" we will draft a Qb at all?

Isn't that a fallacy of projection?

"You" want it, so of course, a new Head Coach will want the same thing.

I don't know for sure what a coach of more likely, the general manager will do.

Is it possible we don't draft a QB? Sure. In my opinion, that would be an epic mistake. Look at the superbowl winning QBs since 2005. Now look at how many teams spent first round picks on those QBs. You get the idea.

Question for you Padre: Do you honestly think one of these FA QBs would be better than drafting one of the top prospects in the upcoming draft? If so, which one? And why do you think that's the way to go? Which one of these QBs do you think can turn their career around and start playing at a level capable of winning a championship in today's NFL? Which of these guys do you see lining up as QB opposite an Aaron Rodgers led team and being able to win?

"MonstBlitz wrote:

I don't know for sure what a coach of more likely, the general manager will do.

Exactly Bro, and keep in mind if folks get their wish and a "Savior" type HC is brought in, they will have the keys to the franchise, if they go with a Vet Qb..there will be no questioning doing so by the .Org.

Is it possible we don't draft a QB? Sure. In my opinion, that would be an epic mistake. Look at the superbowl winning QBs since 2005. Now look at how many teams spent first round picks on those QBs. You get the idea.

The SB is the byproduct of successful seasons though MB, cannot have one without the other, meaning you need a Qb good enough to get you to the dance in the first place.

Question for you Padre: Do you honestly think one of these FA QBs would be better than drafting one of the top prospects in the upcoming draft? If so, which one? And why do you think that's the way to go? Which one of these QBs do you think can turn their career around and start playing at a level capable of winning a championship in today's NFL? Which of these guys do you see lining up as QB opposite an Aaron Rodgers led team and being able to win?

Honestly?

I really do not know, meaning while many would like to believe the Qb is the be all end all, it wouldn't surprise me if a new HC thought we needed something else like a Wr or a OLB or what have you as they do not wish to hold a newb Qb's hand while they learn their job, which is not unheard of in the NFL.

And keep in mind MB, the only advantage a drafted Qb has is there is no level of performance that they can be downgraded for, once they get in the league the whole winning thing is harder then it looks.

As for whch FA Qb's interest me, atm, Young, Orton and Henne.

"padre31 wrote:

As for whch FA Qb's interest me, atm, Young, Orton and Henne.

If we bring in a HC and/or GM who thinks one of those guys is the answer at QB, in my opinion we will have hired the wrong guy and then I'll have to seriously question whether or not I can continue watching Miami Dolphin football.