For All The Emo Fans Who Want To Give Up On The Season

"FaninPatsyLand wrote:

I disagree wholeheartedly and find it insulting you are even insinuating it. Again, it has more to do with growing up rooting for an organization that has put a mediocre to below-average product on the field for our entire lives.

I don't care what type of personality you might naturally have, the performance of this organization in recent years breeds pessimism, especially when you know no success.

It's not an insinuation, and for you to find insult in such is reaching in a major way. It is a very brief summary of characteristics of different generations that can be supported by a simple google search. In fact, let me help you: http://legalcareers.about.com/od/practicetips/a/GenerationY.htm

I would also submit that it is more difficult for those who have seen the success and then watched the franchise crash and burn then it is for those who have never seen success at all. However, it is also key to remember that when you have three regimes of crap to clean up, that it will not happen overnight. I'm sorry to burst your (general, not specific) bubble if you thought that bringing in Marshall and Dansby meant we were Super Bowl bound, but we aren't, and we weren't, and all the pre-season "forecasters" did nothing but blow smoke up some very hopeful rear ends.

Reality is, we have another one, maybe even two years of progress before the expectation should exist that we be that type of team. This is exactly why there was a small part of me hoping that the Phins wouldn't pull out the AFC East the year after the 1 win season; because it created expectations and hope that were years ahead of its time.

"sdboutlaw wrote:

It's not an insinuation, and for you to find insult in such is reaching in a major way. It is a very brief summary of characteristics of different generations that can be supported by a simple google search. In fact, let me help you: http://legalcareers.about.com/od/practicetips/a/GenerationY.htm

I would also submit that it is more difficult for those who have seen the success and then watched the franchise crash and burn then it is for those who have never seen success at all. However, it is also key to remember that when you have three regimes of crap to clean up, that it will not happen overnight. I'm sorry to burst your (general, not specific) bubble if you thought that bringing in Marshall and Dansby meant we were Super Bowl bound, but we aren't, and we weren't, and all the pre-season "forecasters" did nothing but blow smoke up some very hopeful rear ends.

Reality is, we have another one, maybe even two years of progress before the expectation should exist that we be that type of team. This is exactly why there was a small part of me hoping that the Phins wouldn't pull out the AFC East the year after the 1 win season; because it created expectations and hope that were years ahead of its time.

You are right, young people typically do expect quicker gratification than the older generations do.

But there's another thing at play here. You have to realize the emotional investment that comes with rooting for a team. The old timers have gotten some sort of return for their investment. They've been rewarded with a championship.

The Younger fans however have been hoodwinked a few times, and are getting jaded. I'm not there yet, but I can understand how some people can be so pessimistic. It's rough wanting your team to do nothing more than succeed year in and year out, and being met only with disappointment. Signing on and believing in something, only to be let down, while other teams are doing it on a yearly basis (especially divisional teams like the Patriots).

It may be part instant gratification, but its part being demoralized too. It's part of the reason the Jets fans (aside from being Jets fans) up until this year were so quick to snap on their team. There aren't really any Jets fans that remember having a championship team anymore. We're not there yet, but we're not far removed from it.

"sdboutlaw wrote:

Agreed completely. I think this might be the difference between generations as the Gen X'ers and the Boomers have more of a sense of long term projects and the understanding that some things just take time. When you take the Wanny years and instead of improving, add Saban + Cameron, you simply get a 5 year project to dig yourself out. On the other hand, the Millenials were all born with USB ports in place of umbilical cords and are more accustomed to everything just being delivered right that second. ;)

Besides, the team is very young as a whole and everyone (and by everyone, I mean me) was saying that the team would either light the world on fire because of sheer talent, or would go through a lot of growing pains as all that talent gelled together during this season.

So relax Stellas...the Dolphins too shall get their groove back. And if you're still worried, just remember....this could have been the 62-7 loss to the Jaguars in the playoffs. :D

i think the generational thing works in a general sense although i'm at the age where every now and then a friend dies of natural causes so i'm not sure if i can be as patient as needed either :lol: but it really does boil down to patience. we have a pro bowl caliber player at every unit on this team. we are very close. maybe its more frustrating for some because we are that close

"sdboutlaw wrote:

It's not an insinuation, and for you to find insult in such is reaching in a major way. It is a very brief summary of characteristics of different generations that can be supported by a simple google search. In fact, let me help you: http://legalcareers.about.com/od/practicetips/a/GenerationY.htm

I would also submit that it is more difficult for those who have seen the success and then watched the franchise crash and burn then it is for those who have never seen success at all. However, it is also key to remember that when you have three regimes of crap to clean up, that it will not happen overnight. I'm sorry to burst your (general, not specific) bubble if you thought that bringing in Marshall and Dansby meant we were Super Bowl bound, but we aren't, and we weren't, and all the pre-season "forecasters" did nothing but blow smoke up some very hopeful rear ends.

Reality is, we have another one, maybe even two years of progress before the expectation should exist that we be that type of team. This is exactly why there was a small part of me hoping that the Phins wouldn't pull out the AFC East the year after the 1 win season; because it created expectations and hope that were years ahead of its time.

I didn't think it was your intention. My bad.

Otherwise, very good post. Although I would have liked to believe that the addition of Marshall and Dansby, at the very least, moved us up in the AFC East pecking order. But even that looks like a fallacy at this point.

"FaninPatsyLand wrote:

I disagree wholeheartedly and find it insulting you are even insinuating it. Again, it has more to do with growing up rooting for an organization that has put a mediocre to below-average product on the field for our entire lives.

I don't care what type of personality you might naturally have, the performance of this organization in recent years breeds pessimism, especially when you know no success.

good point. when the experience of being a fan is dominated by the last ten years and you have to hear stories of the good old days but havent experienced it for yourself it must get frustrating. but i think your faith will be rewarded soon :up:

"FaninPatsyLand wrote:

I would have liked to believe that the addition of Marshall and Dansby, at the very least, moved us up in the AFC East pecking order. But even that looks like a fallacy at this point.

last year we started 1-3. Now we're 2-2.

Technically, this is an improvement. :up:

"SeanP wrote:

You are right, young people typically do expect quicker gratification than the older generations do.

But there's another thing at play here. You have to realize the emotional investment that comes with rooting for a team. The old timers have gotten some sort of return for their investment. They've been rewarded with a championship.

The Younger fans however have been hoodwinked a few times, and are getting jaded. I'm not there yet, but I can understand how some people can be so pessimistic. It's rough wanting your team to do nothing more than succeed year in and year out, and being met only with disappointment. Signing on and believing in something, only to be let down, while other teams are doing it on a yearly basis (especially divisional teams like the Patriots).

It may be part instant gratification, but its part being demoralized too. It's part of the reason the Jets fans (aside from being Jets fans) up until this year were so quick to snap on their team. There aren't really any Jets fans that remember having a championship team anymore. We're not there yet, but we're not far removed from it.

I'm 31 years old...I haven't seen a Championship, either. ;)

"texasPHINSfan wrote:

last year we started 1-3. Now we're 2-2.

Technically, this is an improvement. :up:

Last year, we went 4-2 in the division, this year we're 1-2.

"muscle979 wrote:

The Ravens were a five win team in 2007. Sure they weren't as bad as we were but everything wasn't exactly great either.

you cant bring in ten new starters and expect to have everything go smoothly at the beginning of the season. i think you can expect them to get better over the next four weeks and considering who we play just in time

"FaninPatsyLand wrote:

Last year, we went 4-2 in the division, this year we're 1-2.

We can still end 4-2 ;)

"adamprez2003 wrote:

i think the generational thing works in a general sense although i'm at the age where every now and then a friend dies of natural causes so i'm not sure if i can be as patient as needed either :lol: but it really does boil down to patience. we have a pro bowl caliber player at every unit on this team. we are very close. maybe its more frustrating for some because we are that close

And I can completely sense that frustration...every morning after a loss as my co-workers point at my Phins flag hanging in my office, smirk, and say, "Tough loss...how's that Thomas to Cowboys/Ginn and his family/Taylor to DC/Wildcat/Marshall workin for ya"

Stupid Ravens fans. *mutters*

"sdboutlaw wrote:

It's not an insinuation, and for you to find insult in such is reaching in a major way. It is a very brief summary of characteristics of different generations that can be supported by a simple google search. In fact, let me help you: http://legalcareers.about.com/od/practicetips/a/GenerationY.htm

I would also submit that it is more difficult for those who have seen the success and then watched the franchise crash and burn then it is for those who have never seen success at all. However, it is also key to remember that when you have three regimes of crap to clean up, that it will not happen overnight. I'm sorry to burst your (general, not specific) bubble if you thought that bringing in Marshall and Dansby meant we were Super Bowl bound, but we aren't, and we weren't, and all the pre-season "forecasters" did nothing but blow smoke up some very hopeful rear ends.

Reality is, we have another one, maybe even two years of progress before the expectation should exist that we be that type of team. This is exactly why there was a small part of me hoping that the Phins wouldn't pull out the AFC East the year after the 1 win season; because it created expectations and hope that were years ahead of its time.

It shouldn't take 5 years in today's NFL. If it does, you are doing something wrong. By year 3 of a regime, you should be seeing significant progress, regardless of where you started from.

The Jets are proving this right now.

"FaninPatsyLand wrote:

I didn't think it was your intention. My bad.

Otherwise, very good post. Although I would have liked to believe that the addition of Marshall and Dansby, at the very least, moved us up in the AFC East pecking order. But even that looks like a fallacy at this point.

It will...there are just a couple other cards that need to settle first, like Henne fully developing...once the light bulb goes off in his head, watch out. :up:

"sdboutlaw wrote:

And I can completely sense that frustration...every morning after a loss as my co-workers point at my Phins flag hanging in my office, smirk, and say, "Tough loss...how's that Thomas to Cowboys/Ginn and his family/Taylor to DC/Wildcat/Marshall workin for ya"

Stupid Ravens fans. *mutters*

:lol: i know i could always console myself that the jets werent doing any better but the last two years they are smiling further and further into the season. this is a very disturbing development

"schmolioot wrote:

It shouldn't take 5 years in today's NFL. If it does, you are doing something wrong. By year 3 of a regime, you should be seeing significant progress, regardless of where you started from.

The Jets are proving this right now.

they didnt build for the long term. they're shooting their wad now in hopes of bagging a ring but its all going to fall apart in about two or three years. we are built for the long term. once we have the team in place, we're there every year. we chose the right path

"schmolioot wrote:

It shouldn't take 5 years in today's NFL. If it does, you are doing something wrong. By year 3 of a regime, you should be seeing significant progress, regardless of where you started from.

The Jets are proving this right now.

I disagree wholeheartedly. The Jets bought a team. With the money they are paying Revis, they will not keep that entire team together next season.

Edwards
Holmes
Folk
Cromartie

Those names alone are going to be asking for a payday, and then some:
http://www.nyjetscap.com/freeagents.html

They've got a boat load of turnover (18/53 players, 4x exclusive rights to make 22) coming up next season. I think they'll be alright, but they are going to have a serious drop off coming up. They certainly won't be the team they are this year.

"texasPHINSfan wrote:

Crap on offense? We just laid down 400 & 436 yards of offense the last two weeks, with the larger number coming against a legitimate top-3 defense in the NFL.

And we've scored 14 points or less on offense in three out of our four games.

"schmolioot wrote:

It shouldn't take 5 years in today's NFL. If it does, you are doing something wrong. By year 3 of a regime, you should be seeing significant progress, regardless of where you started from.

The Jets are proving this right now.

The Jets are akin to that arrogant guy at the poker table wearing the obnoxious hat backwards who decides he's going all in at some obscure time to try and push someone off the table they don't like. The guy has one shot to pull it off, and if he does, he looks like a genius. However, if he doesn't, he looks like a friggin idiot and his only benefit was the 2 minutes of coverage on that stupid ESPN poker show that I cannot believe is actually shown on ESPN.

I'd rather take the time to develop things and make sure I'm sitting at the winner's table when it counts and that I have the ability to sit there for a long, long time. I'd much rather be in the position of the Dolphins right now with the way they are developing the young talent then in the position of the Jets, who basically have one shot.

"adamprez2003 wrote:

they didnt build for the long term. they're shooting their wad now in hopes of bagging a ring but its all going to fall apart in about two or three years. we are built for the long term. once we have the team in place, we're there every year. we chose the right path

In the meantime, they might win the SB. Isn't that the goal?

And your scenario depends almost entirely on Henne becoming an upper echelon/franchise type QB. Unless you think we are sitting on the Steelers or Ravens "D" here and just haven't seen it yet.

"FaninPatsyLand wrote:

Last year, we went 4-2 in the division, this year we're 1-2.

"SeanP wrote:

We can still end 4-2 ;)

This.

FIPL - You're missing my point. The point is your attitude is based on your perception. You're focusing on only the negative, not paying attention to either the positives or the fact that we haven't finished playing our division foes this year. We certainly can (and have, even recently) beaten our division rivals at THEIR house. Just because our special teams jacked this one up for us, doesn't mean they will next time.

When was the last time special teams cost us a game? I certainly can remember the last time special teams WON us a game. :up:

See? Look at the good stuff, stop dwelling on the bad :wink2:

"sdboutlaw wrote:

The Jets are akin to that arrogant guy at the poker table wearing the obnoxious hat backwards who decides he's going all in at some obscure time to try and push someone off the table they don't like. The guy has one shot to pull it off, and if he does, he looks like a genius. However, if he doesn't, he looks like a friggin idiot and his only benefit was the 2 minutes of coverage on that stupid ESPN poker show that I cannot believe is actually shown on ESPN.

I'd rather take the time to develop things and make sure I'm sitting at the winner's table when it counts and that I have the ability to sit there for a long, long time. I'd much rather be in the position of the Dolphins right now with the way they are developing the young talent then in the position of the Jets, who basically have one shot.

They don't have just one shot. That's just a fallacy. All their young guys are signed. They have full complements of draft picks. They will be able to sign Holmes and David Harris. They are damn good. The older guys they picked up complement their young guys.

"Rick 1966 wrote:

And we've scored 14 points or less on offense in three out of our four games.

The number of points scored means nothing, unless you're comparing it to your opponent that game. 3 out of 4 games we scored less than 15 points, but we've won 2 out of 4 games this year. Does it matter that we scored less than 15 points in the victory?

Ravens won in week one by scoring 10 points. :up:

"schmolioot wrote:

They don't have just one shot. That's just a fallacy. All their young guys are signed. They have full complements of draft picks. They will be able to sign Holmes and David Harris. They are damn good. The older guys they picked up complement their young guys.

They're not going to be able to keep everyone because they bought Revis Island hurricane coverage...

Also their young guys aren't getting as much play as ours are because the old guys are in the way. It looks like they're ahead now, but wait till it flips and our young guys are all playing with veteran experience and they're going through the young guy growing pains...

"schmolioot wrote:

In the meantime, they might win the SB. Isn't that the goal?

And your scenario depends almost entirely on Henne becoming an upper echelon/franchise type QB. Unless you think we are sitting on the Steelers or Ravens "D" here and just haven't seen it yet.

well for one i definitely think we are getting very close to having a ravens/ steelers defense. Vontae, Dansby, Wake, Starks are all pro bowl caliber players or potentially so. Clemons, Soliai, Langford are all solid so far. Odrick and Misi show potential to be good. Bell I cant quite grade yet. He's played better in the past so I dont know if he's slipped or if its just a temporary thing. Jason Allen has played well for most of the games but had some horrendous slips. Dont know if that will improve or not Sean Smith might come back and improve. Cant write him off. Crowder is better when he doesnt have to be the playmaker at inside. Overall its shaping up to be a very solid and dominating defense. If we add one or two pro bowlers to that defense that will be a lights out defense

As for Henne, he doesnt have to be top 5 but he has to be top 12. He's not ther yet but I see enough progress in him year to year to year that I believe he will be by next year or 2012 the latest

I'm not emo, but I don't even see it possible for us to come out of this four game stretch anything better than 1-3 (3-5 overall). @GB & @BAL are automatic losses to me, and I only have an inch of hope against Pittsburgh because the game is at home. We can win an ugly defensive struggle @CIN if the defense can get Carson Palmer out of his comfort zone early and often. He's a mistake waiting to happen.

Good thing life is all about making the impossible possible and making the non believers.... believers.

If we do manage to make it out of this stretch at .500 or so, then we've got some hope with a much "easier" stretch following.

We really killed ourselves by not at least splitting the home set against division rivals though. Really did.