Well, my vision for the Dolphins in 2011 is a Run First team that can have a highly efficient passing game, CJ is still quite young and very proven, and has annual contract problems with Titans owner Bud Adams, so a part of me is curious whether a trade for Johnson would make sense for us?
To me, forget Ahmad Bradshaw or Deangelo Williams, if CJ were on the mkt he would be by far the best upgrade to the running game as his career closely resembles Eric Dickersons', he is a home run threat of a back who would make the offense, and Henne, better instantly.
Page 1 of 3
-
-
You're going to give up what in terms of draft picks? I don't think Chris Johnson getting the contract that will make him happy plus draft picks in trade is even close to worth pursuing over Deangelo Williams, and I'm not even sure that is a great use of resources.
Aquafin likes this. -
Guest
We'd have to give up a first guaranteed. Maybe a second. If not a second, two players. Probably more.
-
Not very big but we were to give a first and third for him, he probably will justify that with his performance. But that also reminds me on the 2002 Ricky Williams. Ricky was beyond all expectations that season but we still didn't make the playoffs that year.
-
Johnson is more durable then Williams would be my contention, granted Williams does not cost picks, he also could be Ronnie Brown pt II.
To me though the real question would be whether or not it would be worth moving picks for CJ, likely a 1st in 2011 and a 3rd in 2012 or something like that for what essentially amounts to a time share running back, if they traded for them then they would have to commit to using him heavily.
To me, if such a commitment were there, then a trade would make some sense, we need both a running back and more big plays out of our running backs, Johnson would fill both needs. -
I sure appreciate you guys trying to keep things interesting in the grid locked, no news off season we are in. With that being said, I would like to see us become a team that collects draft picks. I wouldn't be interested in giving up any picks for a RB.
-
At some point soon, To be able to step in to the mother grabbin forefront of the NFL, and make us relevant again, this GM will have to make a move that shocks even its own fan's..
I love the way the team has built its fouhndation based on youth, strength, and discipline, soon it will be time to make a move..
Padre, I like the thought process, but I truly don't think the titans let that type of player go..He's perfect for the young QB's side.. -
I agree. I think we have to see above average play at the QB position. Until that happens, it is null and void. Hopefully it will happen for us this year. If and when that happens, I will be very happy if we lay it all out there and go for it on every level we can. -
I wouldn't because of the coaching staff wanting to use a running back by committee approach. I just don't think Johnson would get the touches needed to justify that kind of spending. Bringing in a Darren Sproles or to a lesser extent a Jerious Norwood to fill that kind of home run hitting role would seem to be a better use of resources. I like CJ but not for the price he commands.
MikeHoncho and padre31 like this. -
Amhad Bradshaw as a free agent is a much better value than trading multiple blue chip draft picks for Chris Johnson.
We're not one or two players away from a championship. We need all the draft picks we got. We can't afford to trade away a first rounder + whatever else the Titans will want for CJ. Yes, he's a top-3 RB in the league, but Amhad Bradshaw is pretty damn good.padre31 likes this. -
CJ is going to holdout again Deej, which is the same thing Dickerson did in 1987, the Colts wound up trading for him:
Kind of interesting, no way is CJ worth 3 1st round picks and a starting, 1k running back in the NFL today, but CJ is on a similar career path.
CJ 4,598
ED 5,147 -
Well, I would depending on how steep the price, 2 #1's?
Not a chance, a #1 and a #3 the following yr?
I'd have to think about it, if they wanted a Cb as well then I'd think the price would be about right.
And this is the offseason that makes the interval between picks in the past draft seem like a lazy summer weekend. -
I would do what I could to get him short of giving up 2 #1's only cause we will most likely be picking pretty darn high. CJ is a helluva player!
-
Guest
We'll be picking pretty darn high? What's the benefit of dealing multiple draft picks for a guy that you don't believe will improve the team in the first place? -
See to me, that is the problem we aren't going to picking that highly, we have reached that plateau level where the texans have been for yrs now, adding someone now should push us to the next level, the 8-10 win may or may not make the playoffs type of team, until we have a solid Qb that is where we will remain if CJ were acquired.
BUT the real advantage would be, it would make Henne more productive a Qb and he could be that solid 1.5 to 1 td to int ratio with 20+ TD of qb that a team needs at a minimum.phinfanuk and like this. -
I'm not trading multiple premium picks for CJ, when I could sign M. Bush, DWill or Bradshaw as a FA. Simple as that to me.
GARDENHEAD likes this. -
Jest would, and that has been the difference so far imho Mr C, I'm messing around with trading for CJ, do think we simply must become more aggressive, are we really going to try and go we have 1 draft first rd choice, the patriots have 2 and expect to beat them at that game?
Sucker bet Bro. -
Not far from the truth of it, they have Schaub, we have "hope in Henne".
Wade Phillips is a sharp defensive mind though, he'll get them straightened out.
Remains to be seen how serious he is about holding out, suspect he is quite serious but I like the idea of sort of reverse engineering our Qb problem, instead of directly attacking the need, we simply add the piece that improves his base level of play. -
Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member
I think there is no doubt that adding CJ would change this team offensively and give the opposing D's a guy to have to worry about, but...
a) would CJ really welcome a change here? Afterall, all he wants is to be the feature offensive player on whatever team he's on. He wants to be the center of attention for that team...That's not how he'd be used here with Sparano...he'd be the complimentary back...yeah, he get 20 or so touches a game, but he would not be the focal point of the O and that would not make him a happy camper here.
b) What compensation would Tenn want ?? The cost would be astronomical if you factor in the players/picks and the contract to get him... Is that what this team really needs to get over the hump ?? I don't think so.
c) The whole world thinks we need a QB before we need a RB...My guess is that Ireland and Sparano would be run out of here faster than greased lightning if they traded for a big time RB and not a QB...I'm personally not of that train of thought, but most of the rest of the world certainly is...If we didn't go undefeated and win the Super Bowl this year (still assuming they'll be one this year) they'd get crucified for not going after Carson Palmer or someone of that ilk...
d) Not that D. Williams or Bradshaw are quite in CJ's class, but if they are hell-bent on acquiring another back, Williams and Bradshaw are alternatives that won't cost both the contract and the picks. Williams just might be just as good for us, at least over the long-haul and for what Sparano envisions for his backs...
e) This team isn't one player away, and as good as CJ is, he isn't going to be the guy that puts us over the hump by himself. Now if they can acquire Williams and a safety in FA that can bridge the gap until our youngsters come of age...and no matter what we do elsewhere on the team, QB will be an issue until Henne proves himself to be at least more consistent than he has been. He doesn't have to be a Manning, but he has to be at least an Orton or Flacco... -
Well to put in both my pennies worth...
Pads... we know we can use a big play potential on this Offense, no question about that...
BUT.... does it have to be one the best players in that position in the league????
I don't think that is necessary, not when the cost is too high...
Case in point...
GB won the Superbowl last year, and they had only 3 more TDs on the ground last Regular Season (GB 11 TDs), than the Phins (8 TDs) did.... they also averaged a whole 0.10 Yards per carry then the Phins (GB 3.8 YPC-Phins 3.7 YPC)...
In a nut shell, in the past decade of Superbowl teams, their ground game Offenses averaged 4.0 YPC and 15 TDs in the Regular Season...
There have been 10 SB teams (50%) that have averaged less than 1 TD on the ground per game in the Regualr Season and 3.9 YPC, and 6 of those teams played each other...
The teams with the best scoring ground game, against his opponents, won 3 times in the SB...
Last year we had a terrible year for the ground game, no doubt about that...but...
between 2008-2009, this Offensive team averaged 20 TDs on the ground and a whopping 4.3 YPC... that was better than the average of the SB teams combined...
then we tried and bring some big time talent to our passing game in 2010 and poof...
If the OL issues cost the Offensive gameplan problems and we did not adjust personnel to its strength???
All I can for surely say that the definition of "Insanity" is the process of continuing to do the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different result... -
Well now Nardo':
-you also have to look at the team as a whole, for example one can point to the rushing TD's from 2009, the defense was also record settling poor, what good does it do when the plane is missing a wing?
-winning the SB is not the only desirable goal 'Nardo, consider:
-no playoff wins in 12 yrs, no AFC Title game appearances in 20 yrs, so why put the SB on a pedastal when we really need to consistently win some games first? My goodness that is putting the cart before the horse
-without a running game, we will not develop a Qb, it is that simple and inescapable, 95% of the "franchise Qb's" we see in the league started their careers with a consistently productive running back, we can see the same thing time after time, and yet stat heads are so enamoured with a Qb they merely think they are air dropped onto rosters and not developed painstakingly with lots of help from the running game.Disnardo likes this. -
Sure he would be happy here LFF, money equals respect in the NFL.
And you hit on the dual problem with running backs, they have value, but not get you over the hump value, then again most teams are not serious about running the ball anyway.
Impossible goal to mandate, if people believe that SB or Bust, they are quite stupid, NFL doesn't work like that and never has it takes time and opportunities to make a SB run and win the thing, Step #1 is making the playoffs, if CJ is identified as the piece to help us make the playoffs and make a run then they should pay whatever cost for him.
Heh, the long haul is one season in the NFL, and yet again..Bradshaw and Williams are injury prone, personally I would not touch DW and think Bradshaw will stay in NY, maybe someone like Jerome Harrison is a nice option but now we are merely settling for 2nd 3rd 4th best types of players.
Away from what? The patriots are not going away, we need better, elite level, weapons on offense to even think about the AFC title let alone think of a SB. -
We won't be giving up a first plus for a running back, especially just after drafting one in the second.
For all those who think it's a strong possibility we will need to get a potential franchise QB high in the draft next year, why would we give away our ammo to move up in the draft next year to do this? Or possibly the high pick we would have to draft one early. That would be a terrible move. -
and when we have a good D, what happened to the Running game? It's is not all on the RB, but the OL and style of gameplan...
Pads, that is the "Ultimate Goal" for evey NFL team, that is why "You Play to Win the Game"... If you remember at the beginning of the Season, this goal was mentioned by a few players as well as the HC...
I agree but why are you willing to give up draft picks, which will hurt aquiring the lack of talent in certain areas of the team, for a Top Tier RB, when we are not a Play Off contention team yet??? Are we one player away??? You know the answer to that one...Step back and look at the overall picture of the team...
We had a Top 10 Running game in 2008-2009... that worked out pretty well...
In 2008 we were 11th in yards from scrimmage with Penny at QB and had one PS appearance, good D and not much of a scoring Offense, but we could control the ball...Henne sat and watched...
In 2009 we were 4th in yards from scrimmage and Henne took over in game 4 after Penny's injury... We ended the season in a downward spiral losing 3 out of last 4... Defense played a big part of those loses (IMO 2/3rds of it)...This was Henne's first full season on the job...
In 2010 we were 21st in yards from scrimmage and there were numerous excuses as to why, so they have all been stated in countless posts...
No I am not bashing Henne, and I do agree with you that this team needs to improve its Running game, but not at the cost that will impeed the infusion of talent on this team. You bring another Outrageous High Paying contract on a position that can be filled in the Top 3 rounds of the draft, and you hurt your chances of keeping good young talented players around so they are here when you do need to make your move deep into the Post Season, and well as missing out on talent in the draft...djphinfan likes this. -
Stupid move that Sparano will do in a heartbeat.
We'd be better off finding out version of Arian Foster; guy will with high school predigree who played in the wrong scheme for his talents and conquently was a disappointment in college.
Antone Smith fits that bill prefectly. Hes a power runner who didn't fit the Noles zone blocking scheme. -
Huge difference, Foster went to a team with a All Pro caliber Qb and tp 3 Wr in Johnson, the offense had been highly productive for yrs before he ever arrived on the scene.
-
Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member
This team has swam in mediocrity for several years. Partly because of the mess that Wanny/Saban/CamCam left us in, partly because while this regime has improved the quality and talent level on this team, it's still not there. You're right, the Pats and jests aren't going to roll over and die for us...we need more quality and more play makers, why give up picks for one play maker in CJ when we might be able to get a couple of guys that fit the bill, perhaps not as exciting or as good as CJ, but by adding an all purpose scatback that can handle return duties as well as complementary back for Thomas, we stand to gain more than just CJ...maybe...Disnardo likes this. -
I like the thought process. My ideal vision for our team is similar to the '72 team. That would be a run first offense with a highly efficient passing game and play making defense. When I think of that team they had a strong running game that consisted of both a pounder a speed guy and a hybrid (a committee system, carries went 213, 190, 137)behind a great OL anchored by a premier C. The passing game consisted of a good but not dynamic QB, an elite WR, TEs that were able to threaten the seam (top 2 TEs had 15 and 12 YPA) and several good but not great WRs. The defense was a top 10 pass rushing unit with (3-4 with very active LBs) and play making Ss and CBs (top 5 in INTs). I think many of the pieces are in place for our current team to emulate that model. I think we have the makings of a very good OL especially if Pouncey becomes an elite C. We have the elite WR in Marshall and good WRs in Bess and Hartline and hopefully Gates. We have one good TE in Fasano. We still need the second TE. I think we have our hybrid RB in Thomas. I think the modern game requires a bit more passing so the hybrid guy would probably get the bulk of carries unlike the pounder did in '72. And I think Polite could be our pounder. We need the speed guy. And obviously we need Henne to develop into at least a good QB.
On defense, we have a top 10 pass rushing unit and an very active LB in Dansby. We have young CBs who we hope will develop into consistent play makers. We're a little weak at S in that Bell is a play maker but older and we don't have the play making FS.
So the thread question IMO is whether we should spend a ton of resources to bring in that speed back. My inclination is "no", b/c I see rb as a position that generally gets you a good production with lesser cost. I see the committee approach to be safer since the rb position takes so many injuries. And CJ in particular seems like a problem child. Also I think that we have to save our resources in case Henne doesn't develop. I think Henne was/is the right choice for this season, but that's largely b/c of how poor the other options were. I have hope that he can be good (not great), but it is not a sure thing. -
The strain of the thought that "we make the SB and win it or the season is a waste" is simply a case of the football knowledge among fans lacking, 31 teams lose, should they all then try to copy what the SB champions did to reach the game?
Isn't that what happens anyway? Normally poor teams do exactly that and rarely have winning seasons let alone make the playoffs.
Because draft picks are used to do what, exactly? What is the point of a draft choice other then to acquire talent to help you win games?
What difference then if said picks then acquire a veteran over using them on players who have done nothing at all in the NFL?
Won the AFCE.
Which does make the point that you upgrade talent whenever possible, situations in the NFL are not static situations, things change from yr to yr.
This is were fans run off of the rails, "we were 21st in yards from scrimmage, Henne's fault!"
Not so, the drop off happened in the running game, CJ would address that...for certain.
Put it this way 'Nardo, we have 1 #1 pick, the Pats have 2 #1's, they can acquire twice the talent with their drafts then we can with ours, do tell how we come out ahead in that situation? Trade back and pick up more, later rd picks?
Nope, they have more of those to use as well.
Is the fallacy of "win through the draft" beginning to sink in yet?
We can't win that exchange, the sooner fans understand this reality, the sooner the notion of trading draft choices for proven talent becomes more palatable. -
In 72 we had the running game pieces in place, and Csonka, added Warfield as well, do think a cmte approach is what we will use, and we have solid offensive talent everywhere but Qb and Rb.
My thought is, if we cannot acquire a Franchise Qb, then we should find the next best thing, a Feature Back, to me that would maximize Chad Henne's skillset.
Defensive performances can vary wildly from yr to yr until a core forms and a culture builds.
Disagree about the resources portion, the patriots are only going to reload further, that is a contest we are simply outgunned in. -
The life expectancy of an NFL running back as far as solid production is 3-5 full seasons. He's played 3 so that could mean he's seen his better seasons already or it would mean trading 2 high picks for a RB that would only play 2 or 3 more seasons.
Even if he were to be splitting carries, I don't see the worth in bringing him here.
I'd much rather aquire more picks or at the very least keep the ones we have... -
Patriots have double our number of draft picks, if the draft is what most think it is, how do you propose we surpass them?
-
The Miami Dolphins do not need to be what the NE Patriots with draft picks. They keep reloading and reloading but they miss more than they hit on picks when they actually do pick. The luxury they have is one thing. Tom Brady and Miami does not have that so lets just be the Miami Dolphins and do what most teams do. Build thru the draft, hope for good picks, and aquire some needed talent thru free agency.
It's what most super bowl winners have done since the 70's....texanphinatic likes this. -
By letting them keep passing on picks to aquire more! Sooner or later they're going to have to start using the picks and NE's recent draft history is nothing special. They got super lucky with what makes them an excellent team and that player is Tom Brady.
-
Padre as Philly fans how good they should feel when their teams make the Post Season almost every year in the last decade... They would love to taste SB victory and not just a showing...
Look, the goals are the same, as I stated, the goals of fans could be different in pesrpective, but as I state again, if we are one player away from making the Post Season, it can be aquired by players not named Calvin Johnson...
Page 1 of 3