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Forward Lateral

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by DolPhinPhan7, Dec 9, 2013.

  1. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Active Member

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    Call me Lazy, whatever. But does anyone have any hard evidence that Rapistberger had a forward lateral on that Stanford Band play? It's what I'm hearing.

    It still really makes me kinda queasy that the Dolphins came a quarter inch from losing that game.
     
  2. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You can look the video up on NFL.com I'm sure.

    I'm pretty sure one of the passes before that point was borderline forward, too.
     
  3. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    even if brown had not stepped out of bounds, since there was no flag, is that still a play that can be reviewed and then get called later on or is it a non reviewable play ?
     
  4. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Having re-watched the play again this morning, that was what I thought. Looked like the last lateral from Roethlisberger to Brown was a forward pass. That said, the angle made it difficult to say for sure.

    So glad Brown stepped on the sideline. :sweatdrop:
     
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  5. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    If it would have went to review it would not have been overturned.

    We were one inch from an epic collapse.
     
  6. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Agreed, in stark contrast to some of the other posters who ASSume that the play would have been overturned upon review. It might have, but the benefit of the doubt woudl go to the Steelers if no flag was thrown.

    At least I see some logic here as opposed to some other posts I've seen that remind me of "Hey, we're 3-0 the OL must be fine because we're winning." Just because we won the game that doesn't mean that we were ridiculously close to national humiliation on that play, not to mention the playoff implications involved.
     
  7. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Come on, that is an epicly ridiculous opinion. It was very clearly a forward lateral and its a reviewable play. Ig they don't overturn it, it shows a blatany agenda.

    There is no benefit of the doubt, it becomes a dead ball at that spot. It wasny even close to being a legal lateral.
     
  8. ElNino

    ElNino Well-Known Member

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    Just reading this thread makes my bowels churn again. good grief, thank goodness.
     
  9. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    I stop motioned the play several times yesterday and, although I think it was a forward lateral, it was not unequivocal. Besides they didn't have a sideline angle like they did for the Music City Miracle.

    There would not have been enough evidence to overturn and the benefit goes to the Steelers. So no it is not an "epicly ridiculous opinion."
     
  10. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Notice how far back Ben's feet are as compared to his outstretched right arm- I'm not sure as per the forward lateral rule if it's the feet or the actual ball in hand position that's spotted- if it's the feet it's actually closer than you'd think to not being a forward lateral.

    That being said, given that the game is in Pittsburgh would you really be comfortable with that play going upstairs for a ruling, when it would have to be beyond a shadow of a doubt that the officials on the field were incorrect in not calling that a forward lateral? I wouldn't.
     
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  11. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think what he's saying is that it can't be overturned for a flag that wasn't called.

    It's like an offensive player pushing a defensive player in the endzone for a game winning TD. While it may be blatant, if the flag isn't called, it isn't called.

    You can't go back and say something should be a penalty, if it wasn't initially called.

    It was so close to being another blunder by the refs in a Steelers/Dolphins game. If anything, the refs should be more happy than anyone.
     
  12. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    This isn't a normal penalty. It is reviewable and can be overturned.

    Proof: Music City Miracle

    No flag was thrown but it was reviewed and determined to be a lateral.
     
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  13. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    The ref was looking straight at the Pittsburgh guy 's feet.
     
  14. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    There ere no flags thrown during the Music City Miracle. The play is reviewable.
     
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  15. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    If there wasn't enough evidence to call Music City Miracle a forward lateral then there wouldn't have been enough evidence to call this one a forward lateral. If Brown doesn't step out, Miami loses, IMHO.
     
  16. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Yes, it would've been a reviewable play, simply from the standpoint that it (assuming Brown doesn't step on the sideline) would've been a TD. But, the question is...would it have been over-turned? From the angle I saw, I'm really not sure. I think it could've gone either way.
     
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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The ball traveled almost two yards ahead, or so it seemed when I watched the replay just now. Just because he threw it underhanded doesn't make it a legit lateral. LOL
     
  18. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    is it where the ball leaves the hand or where Ben's foot was? because clearly the hand was much further forward than the foot.
     
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  19. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    It's from where the ball leaves his hand. I stop-motioned the video, he releases it at about the 42.5 yard line, and Brown catches it at the 43...it was a hell of a lot closer than we think, but still forward enough to where it would've come back upon review had Brown stayed in-bounds, IMO.
     
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  20. JimToss

    JimToss Thank You Chad Pennington

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    I thought it was a forward lateral the whole time and still think so. But watching it I think it would have been hard to overturn.

    What a great call for the ref to see him step out of bounds.
    Honestly, sometimes I don't know how they see it.
    And other times I don't know how they are so blind. But Kudos to for this one.
     
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  21. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I would think it's the hand because it's not a question of the line of scrimmage but simply a forward pass.
     
  22. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    Yeah, kudos to the ref catching Brown step out. Somehow two refs missed Hartline's catch. It's nice to not be screwed by the zebra's.
     
  23. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Active Member

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    Don't worry next week when the Patriots come to town the Phins can be screwed by the refs then.
     
  24. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I actually credit the refs for not throwing a flag during this play knowing that it was a) the last play of the game and b) the Steelers had to score. If they were to rule that the Roethlisberger toss was a forward lateral it would have killed the play, effectively ending the game. Instead, the refs recognized the two aforementioned aspects of said play and let it play out, knowing that it had to be a score and that scores get automatically reviewed, they could make a decision afterwards.

    Glad Antonio Brown stepped out though.
     
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  25. 1. All scoring plays are automatically reviewed, so it would of been reviewed.
    2. It is a part of the play that can be challenged on the field
    3. Not sure about the rules but I would think a lateral is determined not by body parts but by the balls location. I would think that the evidence should be very black n white. You take the balls starting position at its release and draw a straight line across the field. If the ball goes in front of that line its a forward lateral, end of story.
    4. I need to watch it in better detail because it was very close but it looked like he caught the ball about a 1/2 yrd forward of where on the field the ball started out of Bens hand. It was very close and I am not wholly confident that it was a forward lateral.
    5. Thing about it going to review it might of been one of those times where you need a firey HC to push the issue and make sure the refs give that aspect of the play close scrutiny and Im not confident Philbin is the type of guy to do that.
     
  26. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Couldnt have been that clear, no flags were thrown.
     
  27. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    when I saw the play it looked like a forward pass (from the hand). But I'm not sure there would have been enough video evidence to over turn it. crazy way to tend a game and a great effort by our Dolphins in the snow.
     
  28. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    It was illegal. The ball leaves Roethlisberger's hand slightly before the 33 and was caught slightly before the 34. I think the way Ben tossed it, like a hook pass made it difficult for the refs to see live, but it was illegal.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Look at the hash mark in the middle of the field. The ball is released clearly before the 33 and was caught beyond the 33. It was closer than I originally thought. But it was certainly an illegal forward pass.
     
  29. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    Oops thanks for the images..I typed the yardages in the 40's and not 30's.
     
  30. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    It's cool. Didn't matter what yard line it was, only that the ball was caught at a higher yard line than it was thrown at :)
     
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  31. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Too close for comfort. Was that first still the actual release point of the football? Or did Ben's hand come back a little bit more?
     
  32. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I think it's way more clear if you focus on the hash mark in the middle of the field (right in front of Ben) and not the one on the sideline. The angle makes the sideline hash difficult to gauge. But the hash in the middle of the field clearly shows the ball leave Ben's hand before the 33 and it was clearly caught after the 33.
     
  33. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Yes, I didn't make the still but I watched it myself like 20 times. That's where the ball leaves his hand. Like the 32 3/4 yard line. Caught at like 33 1/2 - 33 3/4 yard line.

    Definitely close, but illegal nonetheless.
     
  34. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I don't know that the refs overturn it based on that one angle. They probably need a perfect angle right down the line.
     
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  35. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    They would have had other angles in review. We never saw them because it didn't matter.
     
  36. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Miami is very lucky that the ref was in position and got his head around to see Brown step out of bounds.
     
  37. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That snow on the field could have really ****ed us in that regard!
     
  38. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    My brother is a die hard Steelers fan. Our games with them are ALWAYS entertaining. Monsoon game in Big Ben's debut, MNF 3-0 game, Pat White game, Steratore screw job game, etc.

    It was quite a show at the house yesterday, thankfully we didn't lose on that play. Would have been the worst loss I've ever seen, and I've seen some brutal ones.
     
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  39. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Why? Even if the ref missed it they would have reviewed it and saw he stepped out.
     
  40. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Absolutely. It might have been tough to overturn via replay if Brown didn't step out, but it doesn't change the fact it was indeed an illegal forward pass.
     

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