1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Full 2018 Miami Dolphins Draft Picks & Review

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Blocking comes down to technique and explosiveness on run plays, and technique/footwork on passing plays. I could teach any of you to block at a high school/college level in a week or two....then it comes down to execution. So it's definitely not a case of "can he learn to block" at the NFL level, it's whether or not he can execute at that level.

    If I was 23-24 all over again, I could probably not be an NFL lineman even though I played/coached line...I'm just too small/short. I do think I could be an NFL fullback or TE on blocking plays though because it's not about driving someone much bigger/stronger than me to the ground, it's about breaking their stride to buy 1.5-2.0 seconds. So that's definitely coachable and not something you'd necessarily have to see in a promising TE receiver.

    It's sort of like Dennis Rodman in basketball- one of the most ELITE rebounders to ever play the game. Many others could rebound like Rodman but they weren't giving it 100% effort every trip down the court. That doesn't make them bad rebounders though- it's just not what they're known for. Fasano is the same thing in NFL blocking TE's.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,496
    68,721
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Gisickis blocking technique is as bad as it gets, on top of that he has legit fear in his head.

    When you see it coming, then turn your body to avoid the violence of the impact and your guy shoves you into the lane and blows up the play, where a player could of made a play,you got more issues then you bargaining for..

    Seriously, hopefully we keep him far away from the line and look at him like a big wide receiver and tight end matchup in the passing game.
     
  3. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

    1,183
    1,484
    113
    Dec 11, 2016
    Never heard of a blocking technique or ask called getting in the way
     
  4. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,699
    3,750
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    IMO the biggest factor with tackling/blocking is a willingness to put your body on the line. If you have that you can be taught better technique, but you can have all the technique in the world which won’t matter a damn if you shy away from contact.
     
    djphinfan and KeyFin like this.
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,496
    68,721
    113
    Dec 20, 2007


    Stop the play at 1:25 then freeze frame it through the whole play, watch closely as he recognizes the defender and watch what he does and then watch what happens to the qb

    Listen I want the guy to be successful but I also don’t want complete pu##ies On our team

    Hopefully someone checks his azz..
     
    Fin-O likes this.
  6. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

    1,183
    1,484
    113
    Dec 11, 2016
    That’s a zone read blown up by immediate post snap qb read penetration more than anything else.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,496
    68,721
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I know what play it is, doesn’t absolve gisicki from the ugliness that ensues.
     
  8. sunworshipper

    sunworshipper Member

    47
    22
    8
    Oct 14, 2012
    I watched the whole clip and my impression is less of a guy afraid of contact than a guy who often doesn't know he's doing and who is getting pushed around a lot.
     
    Irishman, Pauly and rafael like this.
  9. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

    2,752
    1,373
    113
    May 31, 2013
    Plantation, Fl

    Yea I don't see him shying from contact. If anything it's poor footwork/technique. But I'm no scout.
     
  10. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I agree. I wouldn't characterize that as "scared" either.
     
    Irishman and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  11. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,699
    3,750
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    I’m another no scout. But overall his blocking was to me “pass catching TE” level not “6th Lineman”.

    There were some ugly misses but no Ted Ginn style running away from contact blocks.

    I really don’t like analyzing freeze frames. Sometimes they can be very misleading because they don’t tell you anything about momentum, body mechanics or if someone else has just blown an assignment.
     
    Irishman and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  12. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

    1,183
    1,484
    113
    Dec 11, 2016
    Nah. His job is to from an off the los pre snap set come across the formation post snap and maintain the outside edge so that the qb if he doesn’t hand it off top side outside which he doesn’t due to immediate penetration can run up inside. There is no pass option on this play. He has to inhibit the edge long enough so the qb can get up inside where the lineman is suppose to be moving to the lb level. Thus the lineman inside of gesicki post snap late has vision on the lb level.

    He’s not asked there to stone a edge rusher that play and ask is called to allow for the ball to be by the edge either outside as in top side or inside up the middle in a hurry.

    So this would be an example of post snap don’t let the edge guy to gesickis side inside immediately post snap where he can collapse the inside qb keep run play. If anything he needs to be let go outside and up field. But the real issue here is top side immediate penetration. Which kills the whole thing.

    In terms of his level of blocking I don’t see any lack of effort or unwillingness to do dirty work. But you damn well better be careful in regards to what you ask of him there assignment wise. Gase is no dummy he won’t be leaving that dude on an island for extended blocking ask vs edges 1 on 1 very often.

    Pick up a lb on a blitz yes cut a dt on a post snap inside run yes combo block on the edge with a lineman on a fast designed inside play yes. But maintain an edge vs a high level edge/power rusher for an extended period nope.

    Not unless we suck at personnel handling relative to strengths and weaknesses.

    They will clean up some of his footwork and technique too. Not that there looks like much real upside there.

    This is a primary flex tight end at the pro level in terms of blocking ask and expectations.

    Durham smythe is the one who will be asked to do more there. It’s his meal ticket.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    Irishman, Pauly and rafael like this.
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,496
    68,721
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Imo No need for such a detailed script of the concept, his play on the play was a joke on a football field, I hope the 6’6 250 Dolphin isn’t put in that situation at the pro level..
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  14. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,384
    11,415
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    Certainly a legit concern from DJ.

    Northwestern isn’t exactly the most physical team in the Big10
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,496
    68,721
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    certainly interesting to see it blown off by some as no big deal..this is football right.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    Pauly and Fin-O like this.
  16. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,384
    11,415
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    One thing I have learned at this great site is that generally members aren't interested in hearing any negative feedback on Dolphins player's or the Dolphins team for that matter warranted or not.

    Any resistance against that warm fuzzy feeling just isn't really accepted around here.

    Any negative articles/predictions bring upon "X is a trash magazine" "X is a terrible reporter"...while I do think we will be significantly better than most people think, I certainly understand the negative perception surrounding this team.

    We just need to prove them wrong.
     
  17. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,549
    6,290
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    - The play at the .25 mark
    - Really look at the play at the .34 mark
    - The.49 mark
    - Many many more. Too lazy to point them all out. That was against a good Michigan D. They were getting abused by Michigan, but you can still see what I'm getting at here.
    He also didn't seem to have such an adverse effect on Barkley's career.
    I mentioned where I stand on Gesicki and how I think he'll be used. Just thought this was interesting.



    These are just fun to watch:

     
  18. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,699
    3,750
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    I’m one of the ones not so concerned about his blocking.
    Yes his technique is pretty ordinary and there’s no way you’d leave him one on one against a von Miller or Khalil Mack, but technique can be taught and he does seem unafraid of sticking his head into a pile. So if he works on his blocking technique he can become an adequate blocker in 2 or 3 years.
    The simple fact is if he were a great blocker as well as a good receiver and a great athlete he’d have gone in the top 10 of the draft.
    On the risk/reward axis the only way I see it not working out is if he gets a big head and stops working on his game. In his college career he worked on and overcame a problem with drops, so that’s a good sign that he is the type of person who will put in the extra yards to improve himself.

    As others have mentioned he seems to have been drafted specifically to be a receiving TE so I expect the coaches to do their job and not put him into situations where he has to stone a premium pass rusher for 3 seconds.

    I think most of the people who are not so worried his blocking have some faith in Gase (a) coaching up his technique and (b) avoiding putting him in situations where his pass blocking can be exploited.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  19. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,496
    68,721
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Everything ive read on the guy as far as what he wants to be seems like he really wants to be a great player and is willing to put in the work.

    If i thought his technique was ordinary Pauly I wouldnt be talking about it, I’m really not the only one who thinks this way.
     
    Pauly likes this.
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,496
    68,721
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Zach Ertz and Gesicki have different styles, the way they run routes, how they cut, lateral quickness..

    I guess it’s hard for me to conceptualize a 6’6 250 lb receiver running routes all game.
     
  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,496
    68,721
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I feel like I’m fair, I know I’m considered an optimistic fan..I too think we’re gonna shock the hell out of everyone, I just don’t like it when I see one of our guys this weak at an important component of his position..I don’t like one dimensional football players..I think in the long run they hurt you, but maybe not, maybe this big receiver thing can be real.
     
  23. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

    1,183
    1,484
    113
    Dec 11, 2016
    I’m concerned about things in gesickis game. I’m just not gonna point out examples on tape that I know are evaluation wise incorrect.

    In terms of what the ask was and reasons for if there was failure in the execution.

    Julius Thomas didn’t get fired because of his blocking. Mike Gesicki won’t be fired for it either.

    Durham Smythe will ride or die primarily on his blocking skills.

    It’s different strengths and different asks.

    And there won’t be any rainbows and unicorns in me. I will call it exactly like I see it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
    KeyFin likes this.
  24. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,699
    3,750
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Sorry, I was using ‘ordinary’ ironically to mean less than adequate.
     
  25. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    The fact of the matter is that you have a ton of very successful NFL TEs who blocked as poorly or worse than what Gesicki showed on film in college. It has been proven repeatedly that what you're complaining about has not been a determining factor in whether the player succeeds or not. It's simply a very minor part of how the position is used in today's NFL. So this is not about ignoring anything negative or blowing off something that really is a big deal. This is about recognizing that whether he succeeds or not will depend on many other far, far more important factors and that he could be a HOF player (not saying he will be) and yet never become a good blocking TE.

    Additionally, we have seen college TEs who were worse blockers come in to the league and become very good blockers. Egnew comes to mind from our own team. He came in as a receiving TE who couldn't block at all. He was far below Gesicki as a college blocking TE. But he wasn't dynamic enough athlete to become a recieving TE in the NFL. We ended up using him as blocking specialist and he actually became a good blocker. It's b/c most college receiving TEs (and their teams) don't focus on it. The result is that whether a college receiving TE looked good as a blocker has very little to do whether he can or can't be a good blocking TE in the pros. It's going to have far more to do with motivation, personality, athleticism and coaching.
     
    Dol-Fan Dupree likes this.
  26. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

    2,752
    1,373
    113
    May 31, 2013
    Plantation, Fl
    I find it interesting hes being called soft and training camp hasn't even started.
     
  27. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,384
    11,415
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    This reminds me of the push back I got for suggesting Reakwon wouldn’t be a good fit for 3rd downs...

    Hope me and DJ are as wrong as can be about our feelings on these 2nd rounders.
     
  28. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

    1,183
    1,484
    113
    Dec 11, 2016
    Penn state asked more of gesicki in the blocking department than for example Michael Egnew was asked for at Missouri.

    So i don’t think the transition will be anywhere near the same.

    However gesicki is poor at the poa as a blocker (thus you limit it as much as possible), seems to take more contact than he gives out, gives ground on contact when squared up on the los, needs better awareness assignment wise when post snap responsible for an area and not a man (comes with reps and familiarity of what the opposition is trying to do to you) and suspect at the second level and in space in maintaining /sustaining contact (like most flex option tight ends at the pro level) thus you scheme a lot of the ask in the first place.

    I’m not saying he’s gonna be on this level but Kansas City schemes a lot of the ask with Travis kelce as a blocker.
     
  29. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    Seems different. Athleticism and coverage ability for LBs in college is correlated to coverage ability in the pros. (Although per camp reports this year and last he's been very good in coverage). But college TE blocking for receiving TEs has not been correlated to NFL TE success.
     
  30. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

    1,183
    1,484
    113
    Dec 11, 2016
    Concerns with regards to raekwon should be in regards to the perimeter field range in the nickel. It looks a little suspect. Especially when you consider that his box instincts are above average.

    Off tackle to off tackle I think he’s fine. Although you don’t find much consistent 4.5 flat timed speed on that tape. Mainly to the perimeter of the field.

    Maybe a slight hiccup in his short area cod too. Some slight stiffness vs redirect.

    Mikes with his level instincts and timed top end speed should meet the ball horizontally at the los to the perimeter of the field. If not they get outflanked.

    Mikes that get outflanked wear targets in terms of teams putting packages together to expose them.
     
    Fin-O likes this.
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,496
    68,721
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    i think fans who have watched Gesicki for 4 years have their take...this is from a penn state forum.

    https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threads/gesicki-blocking.192083/
     
  32. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

    2,752
    1,373
    113
    May 31, 2013
    Plantation, Fl


    That's a bunch of anonymous noise as far as I'm concerned. For the record I wanted Miami to take Herndon but I believe he was taken between Gesicki and Smythe. I can see Gesicki wasn't drafted for his blocking prowess but I would think it improves after at least one season of NFL conditioning. Even if his blocking never develops, he may be so glorious in the seam or redzone that no one ever remembers what he does on blocking plays. Lets see what happens.
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,496
    68,721
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    those are his fans, of his team, that watch every rep...it matches what I see on film, but like you said even if he's useless lets hope he's good enough as a receiver to have the value of a high 2nd rounder.
     
  34. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,549
    6,290
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    My man, deej, I have mentioned several times how I think they will use Gesicki and I totally stand by that assertion.
    You did post one play, so I posted a vid and pointed out several plays against a good D where he did block sufficiently for that type of TE. I'm not even saying that means or proves a lot, just that there are also many plays where he did block sufficiently and didn't appear scared. You should all check them out. With that said, I really don't care if he isn't a great blocking TE. As I have previously mentioned, I think he will be used as a bigger, go up and get it, mismatch, red zone threat type receiver as you can see on many many film clips such as the second one I posted. I've wanted that type of receiver on the team for so long now. Also, he didn't seem to have such an adverse effect on Barkley nor prevented him from being the #2 overall pick in the draft. We also have Smythe to be that other type of TE.
    I totally understand your concerns, bro. I just think when people stop trying to envision him as the more classic type of blocking TE and start envisioning him as the type of receiver I have mentioned you may feel a bit better about him and the potential. Peace!
     
    djphinfan and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    On this play that supposedly proves a professional football player with dozens of starts at a major power five university is a coward when it comes to blocking, I thought it looked pretty obvious Gesicki's execution on the play was supposed to be a cut block on the unmarked defensive end, and the problem was the right tackle never really blocked down and so the defensive end was able to hide in his shadow.

    Gesicki eyes were on the unmarked DE the whole time, and right before he gets to the hash mark, he turns his shoulders away from him while still eyeballing him. This is split zone blocking and that's the bask side DE. The tight end executes a cut block on those plays all the damn time. The problem is the right tackle's fat butt was still right there and by the time Gesicki navigates with his hands (rather than launch his facemask into the tackle's butt), he's already closed too much of the distance.

    Awkward? Yeah. Probably should've sensed that a cut block won't work there a bit earlier. But that's been his issue as a blocker, recognizing things, squaring up, and using technique. It's been a work in progress.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,496
    68,721
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    overall in watching 500 reps or so, there seems to be so much unsureness to this part of his game, one could interpret that as some sort of fear.

    I guess a lot of folks aren't worried about the tell he gives to a defense at this level, not worried about the jump in level of competition when it comes to who he will blocking at the pro level and not college, not worry that anytime he is on the field in the run game, his prowess at the craft has real possibility of ruining plays.
     
  37. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

    1,183
    1,484
    113
    Dec 11, 2016
    I think the tell thing is legit. But tempo can offset some of that.

    I can also go along with that play ask being a cut block on the edge as long as the understanding is two fold one that the ball is expected to go by either top side outside or inside well before any extended blocking ask would transpire and two that gesicki had any accountability for the end result on the play.

    That thing was blown up from the post snap get go pretty much. They didn’t get the hesitation from the top side edge they are hoping for.
     
  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,538
    33,037
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    How is he going to be any different than Cameron or Thomas?
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    112,496
    68,721
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    at least he offers more in the receiving part of the game.
     
  40. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,699
    3,750
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    I was always down on Dion Jordan. My fitst impression from watching his highlight reel was that he was a phenomenal athlete, but he didn’t show toughness or development of techniques.

    What I see with Gisecki that I didn’t see with Jordan is a willingness to make contact, albeit in a technically abysmal and inefficient manner. We have seen Gisecki work on technique and overcome problems with drops. Gis route running had improved each year.

    What worried me about Dion Jordan was essentially the question of whether he had an NFL brain under his helmet, and the answer so far is no. I am lmuch less worried about Gisecki, he has shown himself to be a fairly decent football player who develops his game.
    I would be much more worried if reports came from Penn State coaches saying that he wouldn’t take their advice to improve his blocking. I get the feeling that Penn State told him blocking was a much lower tier concern than route running or catching.

    Am I worried: yes
    Do I think it is a flaw that cannot be fixed by coaching: no
    Do I hopee he can improve his blocking rapidly: yes
    Do I think it will take 2 or 3 years for his blocking to be adequate: yes

    Ultimately whether or not he’s a bust will depend a large part on him improving his blocking. On that question I am hopeful, but I can legitimately see where other people are worried about it.
     
    Dol-Fan Dupree likes this.

Share This Page