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Future NFL Coaches?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 18, 2021.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    Let me say, right off the bat, that I'm not advocating for, or assuming, a replacement of Brian Flores.

    I just saw this article, thought it was interesting, and wanted to share it because I figure many others here will find it interesting too - whether or not you think Flores should be on the move away from Miami.

    So here you go - Young NFL Coaches to Watch (NFL.com):
    Nathaniel Hackett, Byron Leftwich, Patrick Graham among young NFL coaches to watch
     
  2. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    When we replace Flores, I absolutely want nothing to do with yet another rookie HC, who doesn't know what he's doing and needs to learn on the job.
     
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  3. plc001

    plc001 Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the problem with hiring experienced head coaches is that they are a reason they are available? The Rieds of the NFL don't come on the market very often. A lot of folks thought Gruden was a good answer and who knows what he's up to anymore. Rookie head coaches seem like a game of russian roulette we are forced to play.
     
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  4. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Stable, quality organizations like the Steelers and Packers can hire first time guys, and provide them with the right situation to maximize their skills and grow into the job. The Dolphins clearly cannot.

    While hiring the next Andy Reid who needs a scenery change is the ideal answer, you're right that it only happens once or twice a decade. But there is success to be found with hiring second tier guys who change jobs for whatever reason as well. It doesn't mean that they suck, it just could be that the situation changed and both parties decided to move on.

    Many of the best coaches in NFL history found their greatest success at their second stop, including out own Don Shula.

    Marty Schotenheimer, Bill Belichick, Chuck Knox, Tom Coughlin, Mike Shanahan, Mike Holmgren, Pete Carroll, Marv Levy, Tony Dungy, Dick Vermeil, and Bruce Arians are all examples of highly successful HCs who's greatest success came after their first job, or at least who also had great success at another stop.

    My ideal choice is Kyle Shanahan in SF, but after MNF, it looks like his arrow there might be on the way back up again. We shall see.
     
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  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Personally, I think we need to figure out GM 1st before even thinking about Flores. And if the next few weeks show the same level of defensive dominance that we just saw against Baltimore, then I'm going to be pretty quick to say that we don't need a new head coach at all.

    With that said, our owner desperately wants to hire a Harbaugh. If one of them agreed (most likely Jim), Flores would be out on the street tomorrow.
     
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  6. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    This x1000

    Flores needs to figure his OC coordinator and OL coach but I’m not ready to move on.

    Ive seen enough of Grier’s drafts to not want to ever see him in charge of a draft again.
     
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  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Oh, I absolutely want to fire Grier and replace him with Thomas Dimitroff. That's step one, if you're letting me play owner.
     
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  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Gross. I don't want Thomas Dimitroff anywhere near Miami.
     
  9. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I have no idea why Ross has a viagra induced erection for Harbaugh. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a good coach but we need to address to GM issue before ANYTHING else.

    Grier has GOT to go!!!!
     
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  10. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I want Ross to pull a page out of Joe Robbies playbook…

    Hire Brett Veach from Kansas City and offer Veach a 10-15% ownership stake in the team. I truly think that would be a good incentive to produce a good team…
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    The guy who took over for the overrated John Dorsey, I like it.
     
  12. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    lol.. 10-15% of the Dolphins is worth maybe $300 million to $500 million!! Belichick is the highest paid coach in professional sports with 6 SB rings and also being a GM, and he's making $18 million per year. Flores makes $3 million.

    So think maybe 0.1% = $3 million stake is more realistic. Either way, I don't think such stock options would change the fortunes of the franchise. Coaches and GMs have more than enough motivation to succeed, and you're not really adding much by giving them stock.
     
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  13. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    Hired not one, but two different head coaches who took the Falcons to the NFC title game, including one who went to the SB and had a big lead in the game.

    Six different seasons in the playoffs.
    10 playoff games.
    Reached the Divisional Round four times. (something Miami hasn't done since 2000)
    Four 11+ win seasons
    Two 13 win seasons (something Miami hasn't done since 1985)

    Almost never drafted a bust in the 1st or 2nd round
    Drafted twelve different players who made the Pro Bowl

    At 55 years old, could lead the team for the next decade potentially
     
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  14. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Joe Robbie lured Don Shula from Baltimore with a 10% ownership stake in the team :wink2:
     
  15. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Apparently that 10% stake was worth $750,000 in 1969, which is $21 million today taking inflation into account. $21 million is 0.7% of the lower end of the scale of what the Dolphins are worth. So realistically you'd offer 0.1% for a normal coach/GM up to 0.7% for a potential all-time great, but definitely not 10-15% given how much more valuable an NFL franchise is today compared to 1969.
     
  16. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    we have done this for the last 20 years almost and it always turns out the same. You g coached with a talented team work out better but a rookie coach needing to build from ground up and learn suck so bad
     
  17. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    There were people on this site that really wanted Jeff Fisher… never forget..
     
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  18. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Hey being 8/8 would be an accomplishment this season.
     
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  19. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    And it’s this low balling, inside the box thinking that has doomed the Dolphins to mediocrity since Shula’s retirement…and will continue to do so.

    Getting paid to do a job is one thing…to have an actual quantifiable stake that determines the success or failure of an organization is something completely different. Until Miami makes an unprecedented move, we will continue to be a mediocre team
     
  20. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Dude.. giving someone up front half a billion dollars just to switch organizations would be one of the dumbest moves any owner could make. Money is in hand, and the GM/HC can perform as poorly as he wants and he's half a billion richer lol. Even if he loses every game that half a billion in stock is likely to increase in value given historical NFL team valuations. That's just stupid.

    No, you want a salary-based model with at most a small stake. There has to be constant incentive to perform well, and you don't get that when the guy is suddenly half a billion richer with no need to perform well to keep that money.
     
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  21. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Okay, so let me get this straight…

    Stephen Ross owns 95% of the Miami Dolphins, a team valued at $3.42 billion and you have a problem with trying to lure a bonafide successful General Manager with a 10% ownership stake in the team…because he would be making TOO much????

    Yea, because Ross owning $3.25 billion solely has worked out…how?

    I’d WILLINGLY pay a GM that much in ownership if he could build us a perineal playoff team competing for the Super Bowl every year…

    But if you believe Ross and his nearly sole ownership of the team has worked out well…
     
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  22. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    No, I have a problem with two things:

    1) No incentive to perform well. Giving a person up front half a billion dollars that they're not going to lose no matter how poorly they perform is just stupid. You've made them rich beyond belief and there's no reason for them to do anything more to remain rich.

    2) Thinking GMs and HCs will somehow magically perform better if you give them such a huge amount. They're already more than motivated enough to do well. Motivation isn't the issue.

    The solution therefore is to offer who you want whatever it takes to lure them over but put them on an incentive laden contract so they ONLY earn that money if they perform well. In other words, give them a high salary but do NOT give them more than a very small percentage of the franchise itself (max 1% and that's probably overdoing it).
     
  23. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    you are just arguing against American Capitalism.
     
  24. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Club Member

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    When I do that, someone reports me and the post is deleted fir being political :glare:
     
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  25. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Depends on the job. Some jobs it's really hard to fire someone for bad performance, but in a lot of jobs you'll get fired if you don't do well and with good job performance you'll make more. Certainly in the case of the NFL, coaches and players are fired for bad performance and you tend to get a much higher salary the better you do so at least in the NFL it's mostly performance based. That's true for the most successful franchises too, so it's not like if you should try changing the model to one with little incentive to succeed given that the most successful franchises use performance based contracts.
     
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    just be patient
     
  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    While money is a big part of it, I do not think people become GMs and NFL head coaches to become rich or for financial incentives. There is actually an incentive to be considered the best in your field for the fame and glory.

    The idea that someone will just suck because they are getting paid a lot is just wrong.

    On the bold part, do you have a source to back this up?
     
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  28. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Who said someone will suck because they are getting paid a lot? I said they're not going to do better (in the context of half a billion given up front). And it's pretty obvious that players and coaches get fired when they do poorly and that better players get paid more. There's no need to provide a source for that!
     
  29. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    It is not about doing any better. It is about luring someone from their already high paid successful job.

    LOL, O.K. If you just want to make something up and then not back it up, that is up to you.
     
  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I said pay them whatever to lure them. Read what I write. And no I'm not making up the OBVIOUS which is that coaches and players that do poorly get fired and those that do better get paid more. Didn't I already point out Belichick was the highest paid coach?

    On the other hand you've been making things up about things I claimed.
     
  31. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Yea and Belichick isn't giving up because he is being paid a lot.
     
  32. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Irrelevant statement. Not one person suggested he would give up by being paid a lot. However, note that he is being paid a high salary and does not have 10-15% of the NE Patriots. So maybe we follow that model instead of one no successful franchise uses.
     
  33. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    You can “pay” anybody to “a job”…but to give them an actual stake in the team…actual ownership, that’s a completely different dynamic.

    It’s no longer a “job”. It BELONGS to you…it’s YOUR VERY OWN and it’s that dynamic that incentivized you to be the absolute best. When Robbie lured Shula from Baltimore, he did so with not only a $750k salary ($21 million today) but an actual stake in the team…it’s not just a coaching gig…this BELONGS to you. Anyone who would argue that didn’t incentivize Shula to be the best truly doesn’t grasp the pride in ownership in my opinion.

    The NFL has been a carousel of GMs and coaches for years, using the same business model…pay a salary to do a job. Well, in the end that’s all it’s been…a job. But when it’s yours, there’s an incentive that doesn’t exist when it’s just a job.

    I guarantee you if Ross were to do as I’ve suggested, the Dolphins would be a dynasty as they were under Shula but since Ross never will, I’ll never be able to say I told you so
     
  34. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    I am going to go out on a limb and suggest interviewing (not necessarily hiring) someone that I would have said hard no to 5 years ago.

    Lane Kiffin

    This guy has had so much failure over the course of his career, but it seems like he has come into his own recently. I think he has done a fantastic job a Ole Miss, put Matt Corrall onto the stage as premier QB, and has built two programs up in short time.
     
  35. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nobody with an ounce of potential is going to come here unless they have guaranteed final say in player acquisition "in writing".. Nor should they.
     

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