Game 4...Rewind thoughts..

sh## I hit the send button on accident...I'll continue the 2nd half..

"djphinfan wrote:

sh## I hit the send button on accident...I'll continue the 2nd half..

:lol:

"djphinfan wrote:

sh## I hit the send button on accident...I'll continue the 2nd half..

Please dont....we just want to remember that good half of football.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

yeah i have to agree. No point in reviewing the 2nd half. go right to game 5 please.

Oh, that pick was also off a hard play action fake.

Of course they drive down the field with 2 and a half to go, we stop'em eventually with Carpenter, Dotson, Ryan baker, Dobbins playing the whole drive...Sean Smith playin safety on the drive as well..

TheY open the 2nd half with Tate housin it...

OK, this is why we need to spend a higher draft pick on the returner position, 3rd round for me..

Let me ask ya'll a question, why do we play seriously competetive against who is considered one of the best teams in the league tough, all the time, yet still suck.?..

I do think being in the 3rd year we still haven't built our complete team, there are a handful pf players that should not be on the field, and wont be next year..I look forward to free agency when it starts, gottq get some good special teamers this year....Balance...which is somethin Mark Ingram would provide.

Wallace and Moore not playing well on special teams.

Speaking of special teams, the blocked punt after a 3 and out...

so special teams lost this one..

we fired the guy soon right?

Man!! is the game of football about whats above the neck of the players, energy output, coaching, and good special teams..Defense cant muster up the energy to top their opponent after such deflating circumstances, 20 yards up the gut for 6 the play after..

Henne bounces back from what looks like some confidence issues and makes 2 great plays, deep slant to Marshall, perfect, read the blitz and got it to ricky who housed it..

Game on..I totally forget what happens at this point?special teams again?..lol

4th game of the season we finally got some production from a back..

Crowd gets to its apex for the game and gets burned on a deep slant..they dont recover..Wake is spent in the third..

Gruden said that Parcells told him that their excited about Wallace..Jaws says hes impressive in practice..serious ups.

Henne back to playing really well, last 2 drives impressive, 11/12 on the past 2 drives, man if it wasn't for those 2 picks.

Marshall got hurt in this game, stretched his ankle pretty good..lost all his speed in the 3rd.

Henne drove him down and on 2nd down Polite whiffed on a block and got Henne sacked deep..

not Hennes fault..down 27 to 14..

Holy sh$#..I completely forgot what happened in this game, the blocked field goal attempt returned for 6...lol, we gave them the triple banger on special teams..

well, no sense of goin anymore..but i'll say this, addition by subtraction..

"CitizenSnips wrote:

yeah i have to agree. No point in reviewing the 2nd half. go right to game 5 please.

lol...sorry man, I wanted you all to live in misery with me..

.The first quarter of this game was perfect except for one thing, a bad decision on 3rd and 6 to disrupt the incredibly hot Chad Henne..

dont you just love that! we have the best 3rd down converter in the NFL in that situation and we pull him for a WC that takes us out of FG position. Total BS. Henning is a f***ing idiot...... and Sparano is too for allowing that to happen after the previous weak.

Right out of the gate, that play call really set the tone for the rest of the game. If Henne's allowed to throw the ball and converts (rather than that ridiculous conservative crap against Brady of all people) then we could be looking at a TD or at least a FG.

I began banging the ST needs changes drums right after the Jets loss Deej, the really depressing fact is Rizzi's unit was merely cow flop, Bonamigo's unit made his unit look better than it actually was in 2010, Rizzi imho should have been replaced as well this offseason.

Hartline missing the block on Merriweather really got Bess smoked.

This game was over 2 minutes into the 2nd half after allowing 14 pts from special teams crap. We cant play Brady and spot him 2 TDs.

We were also out coached. Reference the 1st Henne INT where Gruden said NE has seen that play before and probably spent all week working on it. :pity:

I really like the core of our football team, we have some great players, really, we completely outplayed the patriots on offense and defense, we've done so all 4 games..

I am really trying to figure out what happens to henne, he had 2 unforced errors, {had nothing to do with Henning}, but I can attribute that to not a lot of exp..I have no gripes at this point, Hes been really accurate, stepping up in the pocket, and making very nice accurate passes. You take away those 2 picks and iam sure you would have a very high passer rating over the course of the first quarter of the season.

I dont understand why this kid doesn't like the shotgun, hes always making good plays when hes in it.

Deej, how'd you like this quote: "Brown... had a couple of blockers, couldn't climb through that opening".

Sorry, did I say special teams spotting Brady 14 pts....... I meant 21 pts. grrrrrr.

I'm moving onto the Packer game.

I don't think Henne had good game vs NE. I don't think he had a bad game either...... and I definitely don't think he has a chance against Brady when our team is playing like crap and out coached as a whole. The team put him behind the 8 ball 2 minutes into the 2nd half, so it's hard to say exactly how he would've performed for 4 quarters. I don't know how many QBs in this league can keep their team in the game against NE when his special teams gives up 21 points. Peyton Manning maybe, but even that's iffy at best.

That outcoached angle is the great unsaid TP, I love the Penguin as our HC but also feel he maybe is too loyal to staff and does not anticipate what his staff does well, and what they do poorly, which is why Nolan had his impact as a fmr HC he knew what he needed to do with the talent he had to work with, the rest of Sparano's staff is maybe a bit too green to anticipate things the way Nolan could BEFORE they happened.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

I'm moving onto the Packer game.

I don't think Henne had good game vs NE. I don't think he had a bad game either...... and I definitely don't think he has a chance against Brady when our team is playing like crap and out coached as a whole. The team put him behind the 8 ball 2 minutes into the 2nd half, so it's hard to say exactly how he would've performed for 4 quarters. I don't know how many QBs in this league can keep their team in the game against NE when his special teams gives up 21 points. Peyton Manning maybe, but even that's iffy at best.

I cant believe I am about to do this..Todd, at 2 different points in the game Henne was 8 for 8, and 11 out of 12...lol.

When you say you dont know how any qb's can compete with the disadvantages, your right , they couldn't of, up until game 5..lets see how it goes..as of right now I want him in camp competin..

"djphinfan wrote:

I cant believe I am about to do this..Todd, at 2 different points in the game Henne was 8 for 8, and 11 out of 12...lol.

When you say you dont know how any qb's can compete with the disadvantages, your right , they couldn't of, up until game 5..lets see how it goes..as of right now I want him in camp competin..

Were they gun slinger, backs against the wall type passes or were they short quick timing route passes?

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Were they gun slinger, backs against the wall type passes or were they short quick timing route passes?

really nice arsenal Dup, basically continuation of last week, except the 2 brain farts, the guy played well the first 4 games of the season, whats weird is somethin goes bad real fast, because I remember saying, Henne needs to sit, hes a nervous wreck, I forget what week Chad gets the start, but I think its soon, however up until this point, He's nowhere near that point..

I wonder if this dude gets injured here soon.

"djphinfan wrote:

I cant believe I am about to do this..Todd, at 2 different points in the game Henne was 8 for 8, and 11 out of 12...lol.

When you say you dont know how any qb's can compete with the disadvantages, your right , they couldn't of, up until game 5..lets see how it goes..as of right now I want him in camp competin..

I can't believe you just did that either. :lol:

I want your opinion here Deej. So far, it seems to me (through 4 games) that when we're running ok during a drive (or on a few drives in a row), Henne looks good; we move the ball well; and we're putting ourselves in position to score. Unfortunately, it seems like we're doing that far to little, and there appears to be an awful lot of 1st downs that gain little to no yards on the ground; 2nd downs that are similarly ineffective; and if Henne throws an incompletion on 1st down, the ground game picks up little on 2nd down, forcing us into too many 3rd and longs. Ricky and Ronnie seem slow hitting holes and getting to the 2nd level, and LG seems like a sore thumb when Incognito barely beats the running back when he's pulling. When Richie's going uphill, he's like a friggin bull especially when he locks onto someone (although he's caught lunging occasionally), so I'm optimistic about him moving to Center full time if we draft Pouncey or Harvey Dahl in FA. With Long, Pouncey pulling, and Incognito mauling at Center, I think we could do some damage with an upgraded running back position. What are your honest thoughts about this after 4 games?

so when are you watching game 5?

"djphinfan wrote:

really nice arsenal Dup, basically continuation of last week, except the 2 brain farts, the guy played well the first 4 games of the season, whats weird is somethin goes bad real fast, because I remember saying, Henne needs to sit, hes a nervous wreck, I forget what week Chad gets the start, but I think its soon, however up until this point, He's nowhere near that point..

I wonder if this dude gets injured here soon.

not yet, you have 2 good games in a row coming up.

It sounds like we're talking about a character from a soap opera or something.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Were they gun slinger, backs against the wall type passes or were they short quick timing route passes?

This is Miami's play by play in that game:

First Drive:
1-10-MIA 20 (15:00) 7-C.Henne pass short right to 23-R.Brown ran ob at MIA 32 for 12 yards.
1-10-MIA 32 (14:35) 7-C.Henne pass short right to 82-B.Hartline to MIA 36 for 4 yards (32-D.McCourty, 50-R.Ninkovich).
2-6-MIA 36 (13:58) 23-R.Brown left guard to MIA 39 for 3 yards (51-J.Mayo).
3-3-MIA 39 (13:16) 7-C.Henne pass short middle to 80-A.Fasano to NE 40 for 21 yards (31-B.Meriweather).
1-10-NE 40 (12:45) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-C.Henne sacked at NE 45 for -5 yards (99-M.Wright).
2-15-NE 45 (12:13) 7-C.Henne pass short right to 23-R.Brown to NE 36 for 9 yards (51-J.Mayo).
3-6-NE 36 (11:28) (Shotgun) Direct snap to 23-R.Brown. 23-R.Brown up the middle to NE 38 for -2 yards (96-J.Cunningham).
4-8-NE 38 (11:07) (Punt formation) 2-B.Fields punts 27 yards to NE 11, Center-92-J.Denney. 83-W.Welker MUFFS catch, and recovers at NE 11. 83-W.Welker to NE 11 for no gain (29-T.Culver).

Chad Henne 4 for 4, 46 yards, 1 sacks, -5 yards. Why use the wildcat in third and long? It is a short yardage/goal line formation.

Second Drive:
1-10-MIA 36 (9:50) 7-C.Henne pass short left to 15-D.Bess to NE 43 for 21 yards (51-J.Mayo).
1-10-NE 43 (9:15) 34-R.Williams left end to NE 32 for 11 yards (51-J.Mayo).
1-10-NE 32 (8:34) 34-R.Williams left end ran ob at NE 26 for 6 yards.
2-4-NE 26 (8:09) 34-R.Williams left tackle to NE 21 for 5 yards (51-J.Mayo).
Timeout #1 by MIA at 07:25.
1-10-NE 21 (7:25) 7-C.Henne pass short left to 34-R.Williams pushed ob at NE 14 for 7 yards (27-K.Arrington).
2-3-NE 14 (6:59) 23-R.Brown right tackle to NE 10 for 4 yards (32-D.McCourty). PENALTY on MIA-68-R.Incognito, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NE 14 - No Play.
2-13-NE 24 (6:34) 23-R.Brown right tackle to NE 19 for 5 yards (55-B.Spikes).
3-8-NE 19 (5:56) 7-C.Henne pass short right to 15-D.Bess for 19 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

Chad Henne on drive: 3 for 3, 47 yards, 1 TD
Henne Game States: 7 for 7, 93 yards, 1 TD

Drive Three:
1-10-MIA 33 (2:56) 7-C.Henne pass incomplete short right to 82-B.Hartline.
2-10-MIA 33 (2:52) 23-R.Brown up the middle to MIA 32 for -1 yards (75-V.Wilfork).
3-11-MIA 32 (2:12) 7-C.Henne pass short left to 15-D.Bess to MIA 45 for 13 yards (51-J.Mayo).
1-10-MIA 45 (1:32) 7-C.Henne pass deep right intended for 19-B.Marshall INTERCEPTED by 50-R.Ninkovich at NE 39. 50-R.Ninkovich to NE 40 for 1 yard (19-B.Marshall).

Chad Henne: 1 for 3, 13 yards, 1 INT. This was the INT where he completely made a bad read and missed Rob Ninkovich in coverage. He should have checked down and hit Ricky in the flats.
Game States: 8 for 10, 106 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Drive Four:
1-10-MIA 21 (7:06) 7-C.Henne pass incomplete deep right to 82-B.Hartline (99-M.Wright).
2-10-MIA 21 (7:02) 23-R.Brown right tackle to MIA 25 for 4 yards (50-R.Ninkovich, 75-V.Wilfork).
3-6-MIA 25 (6:21) (Shotgun) 7-C.Henne pass short right to 15-D.Bess to MIA 39 for 14 yards (24-J.Wilhite).
1-10-MIA 39 (5:41) 15-D.Bess left end to MIA 36 for -3 yards (31-B.Meriweather).
2-13-MIA 36 (5:04) 23-R.Brown up the middle to MIA 39 for 3 yards (75-V.Wilfork).
Timeout #2 by NE at 04:23.
3-10-MIA 39 (4:23) (Shotgun) 7-C.Henne pass incomplete deep right to 82-B.Hartline [91-M.Pryor]. PENALTY on NE-32-D.McCourty, Defensive Pass Interference, 16 yards, enforced at MIA 39 - No Play.
1-10-NE 45 (4:16) PENALTY on MIA-79-P.McQuistan, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at NE 45 - No Play.
1-15- (4:16) 7-C.Henne pass short middle to 15-D.Bess to NE 43 for 7 yards (59-G.Guyton).
2-8-NE 43 (3:37) 34-R.Williams right tackle to NE 27 for 16 yards (27-K.Arrington).
1-10-NE 27 (2:55) 7-C.Henne pass short right intended for 38-P.Cobbs INTERCEPTED by 50-R.Ninkovich at NE 25. 50-R.Ninkovich to NE 25 for no gain (38-P.Cobbs).

This drive was going good. Henne was 2 for 3 with 21 yards and the running game was working well. Then, Chad does it again. He simply makes a bad read. The interception play was another play action pass. Miami split Patrick Cobbs out to the bottom of the formation with what looks like Brandon Marshall in the slot. Cobbs runs a hitch at about 5 yards or so. Marshall takes an inside stem and presses vertically. TE is running a deep cross from the top of the formation. New England looks to be in a cover three here with the linebacker showing man but covering flats. TE pulls the MIKE backer on his drop with him. Bottom side corner drops deep to take outside third. Both safeties are taking deep thirds, but it looks like Marshall does have a small opening to catch the ball in between the safeties. Henne choses the hitch man and the backer jumps the route. Henne was fooled by the coverage again.

So now we are at 10 for 14 for 127 yards, 1 TD, and 2 INTs, and the 2 INTs have completely defeated his otherwise efficient passing day.

That is the first half. The game could have been and should have at least 14-0 Miami with a chance to be 17-0 or even 21-0 at half time. Henne's interceptions only gave New England 3 points, but it cost Miami potentially 14.

Henne's third interception after the special teams breakdown I can't put totally on him. The play was doomed from the beginning. He should have just thrown the ball away, so that much I can put on him. However, for the coverage that New England showed, it was just poor play design with Marshall running a shallow cross with Bess running an out pattern on the same side. Looks like NE was in a cover 2 there. Marshall didn't run his route though. He stopped. I don't know if he thought there was a blitz or what, but Henne shouldn't have thrown that ball. If he tries to get the ball to Bess, the safety was jumping that route. He might have had a chance to get it in there with his arm, but the safety had jumped the route when Bess broke. The TE was covered, and I'm not sure what route Ronnie was running on the other side.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

I can't believe you just did that either. :lol:

I want your opinion here Deej. So far, it seems to me (through 4 games) that when we're running ok during a drive (or on a few drives in a row), Henne looks good; we move the ball well; and we're putting ourselves in position to score. Unfortunately, it seems like we're doing that far to little, and there appears to be an awful lot of 1st downs that gain little to no yards on the ground; 2nd downs that are similarly ineffective; and if Henne throws an incompletion on 1st down, the ground game picks up little on 2nd down, forcing us into too many 3rd and longs. Ricky and Ronnie seem slow hitting holes and getting to the 2nd level, and LG seems like a sore thumb when Incognito barely beats the running back when he's pulling. When Richie's going uphill, he's like a friggin bull especially when he locks onto someone (although he's caught lunging occasionally), so I'm optimistic about him moving to Center full time if we draft Pouncey or Harvey Dahl in FA. With Long, Pouncey pulling, and Incognito mauling at Center, I think we could do some damage with an upgraded running back position. What are your honest thoughts about this after 4 games?

so when are you watching game 5?

Honestly, we have outplayed all four teams from an offensive and defensive perspective, been the more physical team, with Henne outplaying all four QB's hes faced..Unacceptable special teams play, 4 inappropriate wildcat plays on 3rd and 6, below average running back production, and not getting enough possessions it seems is why we have 2 losses..

I think we have to go all out with skill position players in the draft, plus an explosive returner, and go oline thru free agency.

If we can correct these things, were gonna be so much better, the balance that a mark Ingram would provide for the defense would make them even more dominant, the positions that return yardage could do for the offense, and how the defense longs to work on a short field with some momentum, would shock folks..

What I have found thru these first 4 games is, were not far off, our identity is defense, and we need to protect it, and balance this team out for it, to put it in better position to flex.

I dont know how Henne plays 2 more good games and gets benched so quickly after game 6.. by the tape that doesn't seem possible..Ive got to watch that cosely considering I was calling for the benching.

Did these few weak dynamics and questionable coaching manipulate my opinion on projecting the QB accurately?..Thats my mission to find out.

"djphinfan wrote:

Honestly, we have outplayed all four teams from an offensive and defensive perspective, been the more physical team, with Henne outplaying all four QB's hes faced..Unacceptable special teams play, 4 inappropriate wildcat plays on 3rd and 6, below average running back production, and not getting enough possessions it seems is why we have 2 losses..

I think we have to go all out with skill position players in the draft, plus an explosive returner, and go oline thru free agency.

If we can correct these things, were gonna be so much better, the balance that a mark Ingram would provide for the defense would make them even more dominant, the positions that return yardage could do for the offense, and how the defense longs to work on a short field with some momentum, would shock folks..

What I have found thru these first 4 games is, were not far off, our identity is defense, and we need to protect it, and balance this team out for it, to put it in better position to flex.

I dont know how Henne plays 2 more good games and gets benched so quickly after game 6.. by the tape that doesn't seem possible..Ive got to watch that cosely considering I was calling for the benching.

Did these few weak dynamics and questionable coaching manipulate my opinion on projecting the QB accurately?..Thats my mission to find out.

I like your idea of going skill players in the draft and nailing Oline in FA. To be honest, something as simple as Mark Ingram and Harvey Dahl would make a huge difference IMO. Ingram, Little, Virgil Green, and Dahl would be a nice boost (if we're using your Ingram at #1 idea). Too bad we haven't brought in Little for a workout, so we probably need to get that thought out of our head to prevent excess draft day disappointment from kicking in. lol.

I thought one aspect of the benching was to see how much Henning was part of the problem.

Food for thought: first 4 games--- we had the worst starting field position in the league. That won't help an offense. lol.