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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Ohio Fanatic, Aug 16, 2014.
They did miss RT's throwaway though...don't know how much that plays into the rating.
They may not be perfect but I think anyone is crazy to disregard their ratings entirely. Since it is cumulative grading, it tends to even out. Sure you may have an easy matchup one week but:
A) Over the season you will play much better and it will even out.
B) Others will face that guy over the season too, which will even out grades with other players.
So you can conclude
C) While matchup may have a small impact on your yearly grade, a bad player won't lead in grade for the season or even be close due to favorable matchups.
Personally...as little as I really know about their ratings..I think its a great tool to use when discussing players..just need to understand how they arrive at their numbers
You might find this interesting http://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/
IMO its more raw data than analysis, very helpful when used and interpreted properly, but also prone to being misused and/or misunderstood.
Same here. Like, last week against the Falcons, he was basically perfect, but they had him at 0.8. Seems low considering he was 6/6, 72 yds and a TD, but I'm sure they have their reasons for it.
Mhm..Im sure they do.
There are so many examples like that. I didn't see it but a lot of people have said Tannehill missed a wide open Hartline on that play, if so that should be a big negative for him. Meanwhile, Moore had a throwaway on a play where the safety had a clean run on him, that's a damn good play. Passer rating rates those the same, an INC pass. Not sure about PFF.
That isn't how PFF works.
They wouldn't grade those two plays the same way. The grade is based on how you do your job based on circumstance. They take into a account what options a player has on a given play, which is the best, and then assign a grade based on those factors.
It -is- subjective but not as much as you're making it seem.
EDIT: Think I read your reply wrong but this is still how it works
You know..how hard would it be to come up with a Thephins rating system..maybe we couldnt get everyone to agree..but..would at least be speaking a common language
Thanks, I was just on there looking for the link so I could pass it to Deej. I have PFF premium, I use it mainly for snap counts though. The ratings I could do w/o, I just picture a spreadsheet nerd who just started watching football a couple years ago poring over broadcast footage and trying to make sense of it. Hell, the coaches tape isn't available for preseason games so how they're grading the secondary players? I have no idea.
Here's a page they have that shows a laundry list of what they consider for QB. This one's for Tannehill:
Edit: Had wrong link.
As far as PFF, I view them as falsus in unum falsus in omnibus.
Although some take them as valid, as long as their system is internally consistent.
That's nice but it doesn't show the details of what the want their people to take into account on every play..I don't know what you mean when you say it's raw data not analysis, it's all analysis, a person is responsible for one game a week, they must look at each player every play, take into account formation, down and distance, whether they received help, degree of win or loss, etc, etc,for example if the pass was good, and the receiver tipped the ball and it got intercepted, their not putting that on the Qb, the analysis is whether it not the location was good.
It's a ridiculous meticulous process, I've seen the process, and I'm not sitting here telling you that I would trust them over someone's respected eyes or my own, hell no, I don't ever go to their site to look stuff up, have no subscription, but it's a solid reference when I do see it on forums and thru the media, a solid mirror for what you are seeing, and what you can't see.my Only point is it's better than anything else out there imo...because it's just a performance grade, not an empty stat with no context..
I can see that Dallas Thomas had one of their worst grades ever, which looks to be what I would of suspected by the tape, then I can take into account who he went up against and adjust the grade in my own mind..
they have an extensive recruiting process and testing..I took it, they offered, I declined...too much fu@&in work..and too much computer stuff.
It's subjective yes, how subjective? We have a ton of knowledgeable football people here, and on any given day we could collectively feel a dozen different ways about plays, players, coaches, etc even though we're all watching the same thing. I'd love for them to put names of their rankings, let us know who's doing the evaluating. Is it ex coaches/players/scouts with decades of experience or a cadre of spreadsheet nerds who just started watching football a few years ago?
im sure it was a big neg for him, he had options so they take that Into account.
Thomas is awful at football. He's the weakest of the starting line.
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He's good at avoiding contact. I say we put him at running back
Punt returns. Can't be any worse than Thigpen.
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It's not just the fact that he got beat at least 7 times, it's that he got spankied..he better rebound because I'm sure his confidence has taken a hit, it will be interesting to see if he rebounds with some aggression.
This is what I'm concerned about. There's no way in a hell a single person looked at EVERY snap from every player, graded them all, and had it in spread sheet form by morning the next day.
DJ, did you ever end up taking a look at Mitchell?
PFF says Thomas' -9.4 rating might be the worst they've EVER seen. Lollllll. I think it's time to start someone else at RG. Thomas clearly isn't ready yet.
EDIT: As PennsylvaniaDolphan told me below, PFF didn't say it was the worst grade they've ever seen, Abramson did. I do think it's the worst I've ever seen though. Woof.
As for the discussion going on about PFF. I'm a fan and I like them as a tool but I don't consider them the absolute only measuring stick of how good or bad a player is. I enjoy their work but I don't judge players solely on their grades.
I think it was Andrew Abrahamson who said that.
I think we need to open competition up obviously but Thomas needs to keep playing. I don't think they should close the door on him yet. He was valued as a 3rd round pick before the draft and went in that round so he could have the talent to bounce back. He's had a terrible start to his career so far both last year and this year so things aren't looking good.
I definitely don't think we should just toss him away. We shouldn't give up on him but he cannot be a starter if he is going to keep playing this poorly. Let him keep working on his game as a backup.
P.S. You are correct, it was Abramson who said that, not PFF.
We'll see how he plays this next game. IF he opens up as a starter, it will likely be his last opportunity to prove he could play on the line as a starter. Thankfully this is what pre season is for. Separating the good players from the bad players before the regular season.
I don't think Thomas can make the roster tbh, except for the fact they invested a year in him and Juwuan wants him.
You have Juwuan, Albert, Pouncey, Smith, Turner, Garner, Satele, Brenner. That's 8. I don't see how they can cut any of those players in favor of Thomas. They can keep him if they carry 9 OL. but he is down there as the 9th 10th best OL and he does not play special teams. So I do not see it..
I don't recall the deadline being Monday morning, but I know you have to commit to a certain amount of hours.
Just looked thru it, he looked to have about 12 reps, he loves to come upfield, that's his M.O, comes off the ball quickly and doesn't diddle daddle, a knifer, cutter, loves to make plays behind the Los, and will most def improve our interior pass rush with a set if moves for a big man, the guys motor is relentless, he's quick and can actually chase players smaller than him, haven't seen enough reps to identify his weaknesses quite yet, obviously because we're going after a different style of player, a penetrator, he's not gonna clog the middle of the D line and hang out, he's gonna make a move and hope to disrupt! he keeps his head on the action I noticed so thats good, I think he's a good player that will make more splash plays than we've had there in a while, I've been on record stating I liked the move from Solai..not that I think Solai is bad just ready for the change after last hear.
Hey...where do yall think Solai goes when Pouncey comes back? Does he have a history playing somewhere other then Center? Im pretty sure he only played center for us till Grove got here right?
I think Soliai stays in Atlanta when Pouncey comes back.
Soliai plays for the Falcons!!!Satele will be cut then i believe...
Just out of curiosity....do you masturbate when you see the opportunity for that kind of post or only after you drop your punchline?
Gah..how the hell did I do that...fire away boys fire away
I'm pretty sure the competition has been open the whole offseason and in the coaches eyes Thomas is the best option. Maybe that changes after Sat night but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. Since none of us are at practice every day we're going off of gAmes when that's only a small portion of the evaluation process. If there's a better guy for the job I'm confident he will be in there sooner rather than later, mainly I think DT was dominated by an elite player. I wouldn't trash Landry, Jordan etc for struggling vs a Revis, Joe Thomas type. In a real game I think they'd have doubled McCoy and prevented some/most of the negative plays, I think they left him out there solo to help get him ready. Time will tell.
Just call me Moses Moreno...cause that's what I wrote the other day.
He played QB at Colorado State in the late 90s. Pretty good college player, actually. Never did much in the NFL though. What were you saying about him?
How many hours exactly was it from the end of the game, until it was posted on their site, and how many hours do you think it should take?