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Gase vs Ross

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fame, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    During the process of Gase being fired, there were a ton of details that all came out at the same time and it was simply impossible to process all of them at once. Most of the negativity surrounding Gase from a players standpoint was either disproved or never attributed to any specific players. However, one quote from Ross stood out quite significantly.

    Ross stated that Adam Gase was not interested in sticking around for a rebuild.

    Now, Ross may have simply been testing the waters, but it's clear that Gase remaining with the team through the carnage of a rebuild was the first option. Here's where Ross' statement gets interesting.

    Presuming that Ross did intend to keep Gase, and wanted to rebuild WITH him at the helm for the time being, then that means the primary disagreement that led to Gase's firing was the fact that he believed a rebuild was unnecessary.

    So where does that put us? Well, essentially it puts us in a position where our non-football-savvy owner disagreed directly with our football minded coach. Not only did they disagree, but in the face of that disagreement Ross set us on a very defined path and was willing to lose his head coach in order to accomplish this task.

    We don't know if Grier had a hand in this decision, but what we DO know is that the Miami Dolphins are currently on the trajectory that was decided upon by our non-football-savvy owner.
     
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  2. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter at this point. He'll either be right or wrong about his decision. I'm sure Ross did some research on his decision. I'm sure he talked to other "football minds" before deciding to do what he did.
     
  3. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    It puts us in a position where the offensive guru and qb whisperer will take his leave and his crappy play calling, his undisciplined team full of pentalties, his record breaking bad defense, and his .292 road win %, right the **** out of here

    https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article223850050.html

    "Gase had already planned to fire defensive coordinator Matt Burke and had a plan for replacing him. He also had decided that he would move on from quarterback Ryan Tannehill and sign a bridge quarterback and probably draft a rookie for the future — assuming he could identify the right draft pick."

    Gase didn't want a rebuild he just wanted to put another band aid on instead of blowing up something that clearly isn't working. He deservedly got fired, out side of one fluke season where he faced multiple bottom 5 defenses in 2016 he hasn't done diddly S**T.
     
  4. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Who knows what actually went on between the two, but Ross is definitely right about his assessment that we are NOT just a few free agents away from contention and that we are really no better than when he took over.

    It doesn't take a football savvy mind to see that.

    And we've seen football savvy minds be wrong about a ton of stuff, whether it's draft picks, the decision to stick with Tannehill, contracts awarded to guys like Suh, etc... At some point you either produce or should be replaced. And that point has come for Gase and co.

    Let's be clear: Ross is NOT taking over duties of the GM or HC. If he did that, then we'd really need to worry about his lack of expertise. No, all he's doing is seeing the obvious: many football savvy minds were simply wrong about what it took to make us a contender.
     
  5. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Well Ross literally said that Gase didn't want to stick around for a rebuild, so we do know what actually went down because we have facts from one of the people involved.

    Nobody is saying Ross is the GM. He doesn't have to be because the GM answers to him. He's more important than a GM because he can set the entire franchise in a new direction at any moment he pleases. He could wake up at 3:00 AM, pick up his phone and fire the entire team before going back to bed at 3:02 AM.

    Just understand that the franchise is really in Ross' hands at all times, and he's always making decisions. He decided that we need to completely rebuild like LA did and he decided Grier is the man to get the players necessary. If that's not guiding a franchise, I don't know what is.

    Whether or not he's guiding it in the right direction is yet to be seen, but it is significant that he's doing so despite the opinions of others around him. Also keep in mind he previously hired those individuals BECAUSE of their expertise.
     
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  6. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    It's so hard to tell which side of the fence you're on. You really hide your emotions so well.
     
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  7. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    You're picking one factoid and elevating it above a ton of others. We've seen reports about how Ross was frustrated with who they decided to draft, about Gase not prioritizing the OL, about a ton of disagreements and arguments between the two leading up to the firing. And saying Gase doesn't want to stick around for a rebuild does NOT mean Ross was willing to keep Gase for a rebuild, unless you can produce an exact quote with Ross stating that, which I have not seen. Based on everything I've seen/read, including Ross' press conference, Ross simply wasn't happy with the direction of the franchise and with many decisions Gase made.

    Ross left almost all decisions up to the "football savvy minds". He picked Tannenbaum and Gase, but for the most part left it up to them to run the football side of operations. So no he's not "always making decisions" about the day to day operations of the franchise.

    And you also don't know who else he's consulted with over the years that are football experts. You're making a lot of suppositions here without clear evidence those assumptions are correct.
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I read into that a lot as well. Here are my thoughts-

    1) You have to believe that Gase was the smartest football guy in the room...including Marino. Yet Marino has Gase's ear and I don't know if that's a good thing or not. I believe that's where the "rebuild" theme was born.

    2) Ross did not want to fire Gase...he defended him even in the press conference saying how smart he was, how hard he worked, etc. So why fire him? Again, that tells me there was a clash between Gase and the front office OR someone even higher in the organization.

    3) After the week 16 loss, Ross sought out Gase and was blown off...with the "excuse" that he had to get ready for a press conference. Why would you EVER ignore your boss and "put them in their place" on football matters? For that matter, why would an owner ask a coach to sit down and talk when there was a press conference in a few minutes? There's only one answer- stupidity. Ross has so little to do with the organization that he didn't even realize what was required of his coach and when.

    4) I honestly believe that we "fired Gase" because Adam was headed out the door no matter what. I think he was sick of answering to an amateur owner and being second guessed by a legendary quarterback that has no business in the front office.

    5) Why did Gase want out? I think he was frustrated that we kept bringing in injury-prone veteran linemen. I think trading Pouncey pissed him off to no end. And I think Gase got tired of telling players "It's my way or the highway" when he knew that he had little chance of winning without a line and a receiving corp. Most of the 1st string offense, that's on Gase. But those backups were on the front office and for three years, we refused to invest in linemen to protect Tannehill. And you just can't win in the NFL without an offensive line. It doesn't take an offensive guru to tell you that.

    6) And when it came down to it, I think Gase got tired of hearing Ross say, "We need an entire rebuild because that's what Marino told me," when the team is a few good linemen and a CB away from being able to beat anyone. A coach shouldn't have to explain every week, "I'm missing 60+% of my patchwork line. My QB has played hurt all year. I'm also missing my top two receivers since I had to keep running them on short timing routes. And all of these injuries are because you won't invest in the line. I can't even start my best RB because he has to be able to block like Jake Long on passing downs."

    On offense this season, we basically had Tunsil as a healthy first stringer. Both guards, our center, our tackle, WR1, WR2, WR3, QB and RB were swapped due to injury or a sub-par line. We won 7 games with Tunsil and Gore as the only relatively healthy starters....that's a freaking miracle folks. This was probably a two-win team that grinded out 7 wins thanks to a mastermind coach with nothing to work with- and he was fired?

    I'm sorry, that's not what the narrative is telling me. Gase was walking out that door either way. And the #1 reason is because of our corporate structure, which equals head coach --> front office --> Ross --> Marino --> Ross's friends --> Executives Ross talks to in real estate --> etc, etc, etc. It's impossible to build a team like that and we just let a stud coach walk due to Ross's incompetence.

    Adam Gase was the best thing that happened to Miami in quite a long time. ***** all you want about Tannehill or the late-season losses, but anyone who understands the fundamentals of the game will know that you can't win with Stills, Amendola, James and Tunsil. The rest of the pieces don't matter if that's all you have to really rely on...it's just not enough skill-wise. And it all comes back to those 3 interior linemen, every injury stemmed from trying to do way too much with way too little protection.

    Gase knew that all along...yet Ross still doesn't. And Maybe Marino doesn't see the relevance since he had one of the fastest releases in football...maybe that's the real issue here. But it all comes back to having an incompetent dumb-*** at the helm who trusts anyone with an opinion.
     
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  9. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    It's not even that he's a bad coach, I can deal with that we've had plenty of them the last 18 years. It's his weasel demeanor. He has no personal accountability everything is everyone else' fault.

    From saying I wish Tannehill had played better....instead of looking at himself, asking why HE didn't coach better, why HE doesn't have this team better prepared.

    To blaming injuries https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/adam-gase-blames-dolphins’-struggles-on-injuries/ar-BBRoEst

    To throwing Landry, Suh, Ajayi which shows he can't handle strong personalities.

    To not being engaged in the game and choosing to pretend to write or draw or whatever on the sideline.

    I can deal with a bad coach but not one who blames other and everything under the sun but never looks at himself.
     
  10. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    In the end it all falls on Ross.
    He has had time to put the people in place to make the team competitive and improve.
    One bad move after another with little direction.
    I only hope this time will be different.
     
  11. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    What I'm doing is elevating the things that Ross specifically said. Everything else is merely conjecture. Half of the things that were "reported" were also found to be false within 24 hours. Journalists these days just write the most scandalous stuff they can think of and attribute it to an "unnamed source" without any evidence. In this case, most of those reports were refuted by the people whose names were in them, in the rare cases where people were named.

    Point is, we SHOULD elevate what Ross says above what guys on twitter are posting regarding their "sources".
     
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  12. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Seems quite clear that the decision on whether or not Adam Gase remained with the Miami Dolphins was, at the end of the day, left up to Adam Gase...and he chose to go another way.
     
  13. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused as to where this stigma came from that Adam Gase just pouted and blamed everyone else. I recall him using the word "we" a lot, and I specifically remember him taking all the blame himself in press conferences by saying that certain players are not prepared and that it's ultimately his fault.

    Simple fact of the matter is that injuries DID hurt us, we were constantly using backup QBs, and Landry, Suh and Ajayi NEEDED to go. I believe Suh was rated mid teens for defensive linemen this year (we would have been paying him far too much for that), Ajayi's knees are ALREADY gone, and Landry was a head case and a diva. Browns fans I know already hate the guy.

    Furthermore, you've got guys like McVay and Reid sitting on the bench away from the defense, but they don't get smashed for it.

    What's really going on is that you don't like the guy, and you're looking at every piece of evidence from that perspective. You already made your mind up, so everything you find to "support" your already formed opinion, you just cling to, even if that support is false.
     
  14. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Sorry dude.. unless you produce an actual quote from Ross saying he wasn't going to fire Gase if Gase was fine with a rebuild you're just making stuff up. What we know from the press conference is that Ross thinks we're no further along than where we were when he first bought the team, and that we aren't just a few key free agents away from building a playoff caliber team, and that he wants a rebuild.

    The stuff about the decision on whether or not Gase remained was up to Gase is pure conjecture.

    ..unless of course you can produce a direct quote from Ross saying this (and make sure you provide a link so we can see the source).
     
  15. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    No.

    We were put on this trajectory because of an ego-maniac who refused to show respect to his boss and was an OC posing as a head coach ..... by all statistics a sh*tty OC at that. Too much reign over the roster, refusal to relinquish calling plays - the guy made his own bed. He had too much power too soon.

    I'd even venture a guess that not drafting a QB in this past draft played a role. But that's Gase for ya, rolled the dice on that wunderkind Brock Assweiler. Brilliant. Genius. We don't deserve a man like that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  16. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Gase was the best thing to happen to us? Good lord man, get it together.

    I think maybe you misread the reports - it was GASE who went cheap with the OG's thinking he could replicate what Manning did with Tannehill. It was GASE with all the roster control - hence why we signed smelly pieces of sh*t like Julius Thomas and other vets who couldn't stay healthy. It was GASE who refused to draft a QB in one of the most QB-rich drafts we've seen in a long time when we were trotting out a 30 year old QB who tore his knee TWICE. It was GASE who couldn't put together a quality staff - at one point employing a cokehead. Gase grinded out wins vs. sh*t teams and at no point in time showed he could consistently coach against quality ones.

    Gase would already be gobbled up by another team if he was this false savior you anoint him as.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  17. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    What you're doing is molding the narrative around your feelings and guess what - it's futile. He gone.
     
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  18. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Just because someone is no longer with the franchise, does not make discussing that person futile, especially when that person was our head coach for three years and has only been fired for a week. Not to mention that Ross is the main focus of this topic, not Gase. Ross, as you might not be aware, is still the owner of the franchise and his interactions and decisions are always worth discussion.

    If you don't wish to have the discussion you are more than welcome to stay quiet, but trying to lash out by calling it futile is silly and wholly inaccurate.
     
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  19. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Speaking of inaccurate .......
     
  20. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    I'm not sure we need to say the blame lies with either Gase or Ross. I think it's clear it was both of them to various degrees.

    Ross has had bad leadership structure in place for a years. He's listened to questionable voices.

    Gase relied too much on past connections and personnel and called some really odd plays.

    Beyond that I think the indications are that Gase felt less and less comfortable in Miami. Did he face too many restrictions to really do what he wanted? Was there a disconnect between Gase and Tannenbaum? Hard to say. I suspect as much. Did Gase just have to learn some hard lessons in his first head coaching job? Definitely. Now he'll likely have a chance to move on and try again.

    As for Ross, all I can say is I'm glad he moved on from Tannenbaum and I'll glad he's changed the leadership structure. I don't know if Grier is the answer, but it's a legitimate improvement.
     
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  21. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Dude you're welcome to be as angry at the world as you want on a Sunday afternoon but it's not for me. No clue what you're even attempting to say.
     
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  22. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Look, there's no blame being placed here. Nobody knows if Gase was right or if Ross was right regarding where to take the franchise in the future. Perhaps they were both wrong.

    What we DO know is that Stephen Ross is in total control of this franchise. He's not a football guy, he won't be picking players, but he's picking the people who do make those decisions and he's telling them to do it the way that he wants now. Whatever your opinions are, so be it, but those are the facts. The franchise is being guided by Ross, not by Grier. Maybe that changes, but he's still sitting in on the coaching interviews.
     
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  23. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    So should I be rooting for him to get the Jets job or not?
     
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  24. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Our "non-football-savvy-owner" wanted to trade back, accumulate picks, draft Lamar Jackson, and move away from Tannehill.

    To me, it sounds like if Gase had listened to him, he would probably still have a job today.
     
  25. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

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    Interesting point. A lot of our decisions these last few years have been made using a consensus. Grier’s personality seems well suited for compromise. However, now that Grier is VP of football operations I expect his expertise to prevail in the HC decision. I don’t feel comfortable one bit with Ross being part of the final decision. If he is there for support, fine. To write the check, fine. To make an argument for one HC candidate over another?, not fine!
     
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  26. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Ross said specifically during his press conference when asked why he fired Adam Gase that Gase "wants to win now". He explained that the 4th year coach isn't interested in rebuilding, which according to Ross was the one and only reason Gase was not retained. He was asked by another reporter after the interview the same question, and Ross responded slightly different, saying that Ross wanted to rebuild, Gase wasn't interested in that, and thus they went their separate ways.

    Ross also said that most members of the media were completely wrong with all of the speculation, and that their relationship, while at times difficult, was very strong and they parted on good terms after simply not coming to agreement on what next year would hold.

    I was there at the press conference by the way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  27. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    don't forget that ross wanted to promote a DC from within, hence Burke, instead of spend money on an outside DC like Gase wanted.
     
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  28. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Take this scenerio:

    -Owner of <insert company> fires a collection of upper management. There is now a void above you.
    -The owner comes into your office and tells you that he will promote you to head honcho.
    -You will be in charge. More pay. More responsibility.
    -The caveat associated with this promotion is that you must take the company in a very specific direction, with specific goals as dictated to you by the owner.

    Do you take the promotion? After you're now the acting head of said company, do you really get to make up your own mind or is your primary directive to do what the owner of the company asked of you? Do you go against him if you feel it's wrong, or do you you simply do as your told?

    Right now that's Chris Grier. First time GM. Very little is known about him. He doesn't have a big name. He wasn't in high demand. His boss came into his office and said "Chris, you'll be in charge if you do this" and Chris said yes. So who's really in charge?

    Again, I'm not saying Chris Grier isn't good at his job and won't succeed. I hope he is...and does. But, he's not really running things.
     
  29. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Reportedly, the DC that Gase wanted to hire was Kris Richard.

     
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  30. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Really?

    So as far as I can tell this is the press conference:


    I mean they leave at the end so that's the press conference. At around 10:15 you hear Ross saying Adam "wants to win and win now". Yes, we all knew that. NOWHERE does he say that was "the one and only reason Gase was not retained".

    Sorry dude I think you're making this up. We didn't hear that reported from any of the insiders in Club, we haven't seen that reported in the news media anywhere so unless you produce an actual video here I think you're making that up.
     
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  31. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    This might be difficult for you to understand but the information you seek, unlike your heralded high school career, is not contained all in the same place within the same 15 second sound bite.

    I don't know what to tell you. Everything is out there for you. You're welcome to not believe anything you want. If you feel I didn't convey the point well enough, that's fine. I'm not a journalist. I don't run some Dolphins blog. I don't take detailed notes to reflect upon. At a certain point I'm just a guy reading twitter quotes and passing along that information occasionally mixed with my opinion. Not in here trying to ruffle your panties my friend.

    Or maybe it's all just a big, global conspiracy aimed at changing your mind about something relatively minor.
     
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  32. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    What's easy for me to understand is that you just lied to us. You said IN the press conference that Ross said "the one and only reason Gase was fired" was because he wasn't interested in rebuilding. You tried to add credibility to that claim by saying you were there.

    Whether you were there or not is beside the point. You knowingly made a false statement about what Ross said in the press conference (I mean I know you can google the press conference video to see what he actually said). So that's some serious hit to your credibility there.

    Sorry.. you are the ONLY person saying Ross said this as far as I know. And you can't provide ANY evidence Ross actually said it. And no I don't believe you at all. Up till this point I just thought you had a different opinion. Now I think you lack integrity.
     
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  33. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Apparently Fame is the only person on the planet who speaks "Rossanese" aka "Sour Grapes".
     
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  34. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    You've been direct about avoiding speculation and listening only to what had actually been said and that's a good thing. It seems you're doing the reverse here though. Unless you've specifically heard this? The scenario is plausible and there were indications this is what happened to Gase. Nevertheless, we don't know the details or extent of any such restrictions/direction.

    What's more, a certain amount of direction is often present when taking on any job. An owner of any business will usually have some sort of direction in mind. The question then becomes how much trust and freedom is given, or earned over time. My guess is that Ross is at least open to possibilities and change if Grier can provide that direction.
     
  35. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    When Ross expands on the whole "He wants to win now" element - he mentions with THIS roster and applying bandaids, which is what Ross doesn't want to do anymore. I'm sure that opinion comes with the assistance of Grier, which I'm perfectly fine with as he's more suited to build a roster than a false OC-wunderkind pretending to be a head coach.
     
  36. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

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    By you saying Grier is not running things is that your opinion or is that fact from an inside source?

    Ross said at presser that Grier is making all football decisions. Why would he say that if he wanted a yes man. I don’t believe Grier would agree to that. I just don’t.
     
  37. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    If people are going to even try to hint that Ross has somehow taken on some kind of Jerry Jones approach, they're out of their minds.
     
  38. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    If certain players weren't prepared ie Landry and Gase continuously centered the offense around a head case and diva instead of benching his *** or giving more reps Jakeem Grant than that's on Gase. Gase built this roster he signed old injury prone Julius Thomas, old injury prone Josh Sitton, old injury prone Amendola. He decided to roll the dice on Tannehill instead of drafting a QB in the 3rd or 4th round to groom should Tanny go down. He signed those back up QB's. We've had a crap oline under Gase his entire tenure and yet not one guard was drafted with a 1st or 2nd round pick. As a matter of fact only 1 guard was drafted in 3 years because Gase chose to use the bandaid approach instead of trying to actually fix the problem.

    McVay or Reid have never been shown on camera PRETENDING to write something or draw something during a live game.

    Regardless of who blamed who and injuries the FACTS are under Gase the Dolphins had one of the worst defenses in franchise history, the dolphins were still an undisciplined team full of penalties, the Dolphins still were crap on the road under Gase while being decent to good at home and that's 100% on coaching, and the play calling was still terrible.

    Whether I like the guy or not is not what's going on. I don' know the guy he could be great I don't care. I don't like Adam Gase the coach, Adam Gase the coach has shown me nothing in 3 years that would make me think he's the guy. Outside of 2016 and he basically has the same record as Joe Philbin. I don't really have to look hard for the evidence against him there's far more bad evidence than good evidence. Of course my opinion is formed it's been 3 years and the dude got fired, what am I supposed to think? That he's going to turn this ship around? Maybe he grows and learns from this experience and goes on to become a great HC (I doubt it) but it's clear that was not going to happen here in Miami.
     
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  39. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    We had nothing to build on, we dont have a quarterback. A few players worth keeping like Minkah and Xavien. But what this franchise needs is an overhaul so Ross is right about that. Cant continue adding onto mediocrity.
     
    Rock Sexton likes this.
  40. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Apr 22, 2014
    Guys, let's not detail the discussion by taking aim at one another.

    Focus on the posts please, not the poster. Less of the insults and accusations. Thanks.
     
    Irishman likes this.

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