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Get a clue!!!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by FINintheMOON, Nov 28, 2007.

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  1. FINintheMOON

    FINintheMOON Moderator Luxury Box

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    Fellow FINFANS... I know that there are so many opinions out here based on everything from firing CAM to the excitement of Ricky getting hurt. The total range of emotions are as overwhelming as seeing our FINS fall short each week, that is if you root for a win each week like I do...

    Why do I root and hold out hope each week? Call me crazy, a homer or a "DIEHARD FAN" but don't call me blind...

    This team is much better that their record. The problem with this team is the lack of continuity over the past 7 years. We have had, as still do have, talent on this team. The problem is that there is always a major change each year in 1 or another aspect of the team.

    Name 1 other team that has been through 5 head coaches in 7 years. Name 1 other team that has been through... God, at least 11 QBs in the same time frame. The last 2 years we seen 3 in each year. Name 1 other team that has been through 5 different offensive and defensive styles in the past 7 years as well.

    This team has seen a TON of change. Hell we don't even have more than 4, maybe 5 players on this team that was here in 2002!!! With each year, we have lost players and picked up others... Each year there has been almost a 40% change in starters on the roster. That is both O and D.

    I am actually quite happy that we are having this season as we are getting the younger talent involved. I am sad about the fact that thier involvement has been the cause of injury to the vets but the great thing about that is we will have experienced backups for the vets next year.

    NO ONE IS LOOKING at what this team has been through in the past 7 years. No matter what talent you have on your team, it takes time to form a team. Snyder of the REDSKINS tried to buy a superbowl a few years back. He got every heavyweight he could on BOTH sides of the ball, but he failed to even get to the playoffs... Why? Becuase there was NO continuity...

    This team has made leaps and bounds in progress if you ask me... Ronnie was on pace to win the rushing record this year. Chatman has had good success as well. This isn't just about their talent though... Everyone knows that the OL is a runningback's best friend...

    If you look at how the offense has digressed, it isn't based on the OL. We wre running and scoring points and throwing TDs when Green and Ronnie were in. Then we lose Green, the points start to faulter... We lose Ronnie next and the points fell even more. Then Cleo and Chatman are out and the O hasn't scored any points...

    Now many of you will say that CAM is the problem on offense. While there have been a few questionable play calls, I will tack that onto him being a rookie HC. Rookies are expected to make mistakes, right?

    The defense sucked in the first half of the season, but they have been pretty damn good of late. Why is that? Because the youth is getting playing time together... How many points have they given up in the past 3 games against teams that know how to put up points?

    I guess the point I am trying to make here is that there are WAY TOO MANY doomsayers out here that want to tag a person, or persons, with our failures this year. To those of you that believe that, I say SPIT!!! And you REALLY need to understand the game before you call for heads on a platter...:punk:
     
  2. FinzFan

    FinzFan Get Out of My Goat Locker

    Well put brother, well put.
     
  3. Phinperor

    Phinperor formerly In_Flames Luxury Box

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    great post brotha. :thumbup:
     
  4. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    :punk:

    Very well put Ken!
     
  5. DOLPHAN1

    DOLPHAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    been thinking many of the same things. itook us how many years to get to this point? and we want it better yesterday! this year is a wash. Cam and Randy deserve time to clean this mess up.
     
  6. FINintheMOON

    FINintheMOON Moderator Luxury Box

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    I agree... Our 1st 3 draft picks are currently playing in starting roles on the team. That in itself is enough to get Cam and Randy another year...
     
  7. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's the Zen of it, dude. Dynasties are born, struggle to rise, stagnate, decome decadent, decline, fall, and have a renaissance. You're seeing the cyclical theory of history played out before your eyes. Pass that bottle again, Toynbee...
     
  8. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member

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    We are not better then our record. Bad teams find ways to lose games. Hence we are a bad team. Very very bad. The worst. Our record says it. We lose close games cause we do things to lose close games.

    Youre as die hard a fan as me FITM, we just see this very different. I am a glass half full guy but when it comes to sports the goal isnt just to be good its to be the best. I dont think we can ever reach that status under this group and I want experienced guys in here when we go through this full rebuilding. I dont want to pin it on 1 guy I want it pinned on the whole team. If no one from this team but Brown, Satele, Carey, Hadnot, Ginn, Beck, and maybe Zach and JT (simply out of loyalty) return ill be happier then a pig in poop. Yeah, we stink that much.

    God, I hate feeling like that guy in Major League but Im more then a little frustrated.

    /end rant :wink2:
     
  9. FINintheMOON

    FINintheMOON Moderator Luxury Box

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    Bro... You sound like every agency out there advertising for experienced help... Whether it be football, Technology, Auto mechanic, Carpenter or any other career. Bottom line is the most successful companies in the world, in all career paths, are the ones that take raw talent and train them and give them experience. The ones looking for experienced personnel are usually the ones that didn't plan for growth and next a quick fix or personnel to satisfy a contract.

    We have seen how that works on this team and if you follow the business world, it doesn't work any better out there either...
     
  10. quelonio

    quelonio Season Ticket Holder

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    I trust how we are growing on offense. which is why I think cam is a great OC... i am still not sure about his job as a HC (partly because I never wanted him here to began with) but I admit that that might have to do with how Wayne forced him to accept Dom Capers as a DC which undermined his role as a HC from the very begining.

    So... painfully enough. I get to my point which is... Dom Capers has to go. This d has changed it has fallen apart and should be reworked by a young determined coordinator. Dom undermines Cam, he is not very good, and has made this d predictable and vanilla... He has to go. I do not want continuity if continuity means mediocrity, Cam has to coach the whole team, which means a real OC and a DC not a a man who thinks of himself as a co-HC

    in conclusion, i dont mind if Cam stays, but Dom has to go... as soon as possible.
     
  11. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member

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    So I guess that makes you satisfied with whats going on? You dont think massive change is necessary?

    The reason I want experienced help is because there are 2 super bowl winning coaches (Tuna, Cowher) and a guy (one of 4 ever) who has won 200 games as a coach (Schottenheimer). One, Tuna, has had success as a GM and in finding players and has said hes interested in such a position. Then hire one of the other two as your coach. Wayne has shown a willingness to spend big dollars, now spend it on some guys who have proven theyre worth it. Im not asking for retred coach x, im asking for one definite HOFER (Tuna), possibly two as both Cowher and Schottenheimer may not be but another (or first) SB win off that status.
     
  12. quelonio

    quelonio Season Ticket Holder

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    Im very intrigued by that, and by the possibility that the Eagles president of operation might want to come by (dockert i think).

    I like Mueller, but as of now we have only heard rumours of possible GM's to come in. And they sound highly intriguing. I doubt Cowher would want to come in a sa coach. And I doubt Schottenheimer wants to coach again this soon. But I would be excited to see Parcells take over as a GM, i would love to see who he brings in as a coach, i would like to see that.

    Now if we are staying put, and giving Cameron a chance to right the ship (after all Jimmy Johnson debuted with a 1-15 record) we need to make a change at DC.
     
  13. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    This is a great rah rah post but it's just not as simple as you are trying to put it.

    There is MUCH more to the problems of this team than "continuity" of systems. You've got to be kidding me with that.



    Having continuity of systems is the least of this organizations problems the last decade..... the very least by a long shot.

    The problems of this team and how it got to where it is has been a problem of continuity but not in the form you are citing. This team has been consistent in failing to bring in talented players, talented coaches and failure to bring in any GM at all until this last year.

    We are not a talented team. We are a team trying to build a talented roster again after being completely stripped of any by past regimes.

    Nice tactic to label anyone who may disagree with you as "not understanding the game." I understand the game just fine thankyou.
    The reason many are becoming uneasy with Cameron isn't simply based on the teams record. It's based on a pattern that has been developing all year of what seems to be a very unprepared team, sloppy penalty ridden play, players looking confused, poor clock management, questionable play calling and game planning, very questionable personnel decisions, motivational tactics players have called Wannstedt-esque, etc. etc.

    All these aspects add up to much more of a danger sign than the record itself and noticing all these aspects takes people who actually do know the game thankyou.
     
  14. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member

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    Hickert....he was President of football operations here for a while, I think that was his official title anyway, and Wayne does have a long standing relationship with him.
     
  15. jcthekid

    jcthekid New Member

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    Great and sensical post, Coral Reefer. It's the bottom line: are we better with this staff?
     
  16. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

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    Well said, Ken. Well said.
     
  17. late again

    late again Senior Member

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    Over the weeks of the season I've pretty much formed the same opinion as you. What I DO NOT understand, but would like to; is the school of thought behind the "rookie HC, so he's forgiven" reasoning.
    People love to use buzz words and phrases that have the sound of something meaningful. In the end, in this case the excuse is hollow.
    Why does Cam get a pass this year? Why does him being a rookie NFL HC allow him that status?
    Cameron has coached football for a long time. He has coached in the NFL for a long time. He understands the fundamentals of the game. He understands the importance of clock management. He is fully aware of the talent level in the NFL. He has enough experience with NFL football to know what works and what doesn't work. If he is uncertain about something during game time, he has coaches on the sideline and in the booth above him. Furthermore, Cam is showing me that he isn't necessarily willing to learn from his past mistakes. In fact, when asked about RW earlier this year Cam said that the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. This many weeks into the season and we're still seeing poor clock mgmt?????
    So anyway, I really would like for someone who gives Cam a pass because he's a rookie HC to explain further.
     
  18. fins4o8

    fins4o8 Mac FTW!

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    good post man. its kind sad to see that after 11 wks Cam is still making the same mistakes and hasn't adjusted. like someone said on the forums. it seems Cam is still thinking as an OC instead of a HC.
     
  19. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    I hope your right brother and I am willing to be patient....but....Cam is looking to me like what Dick McPherson was to the Pats...just without the charisma and the college wins (66-46-4) (Cameron 18-37).

    Actually, McPherson won 6 games his first year...
     
  20. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I knew this season was going to be a painful one, but I didn't realize it was going to be THIS painful. I knew under a first year coach moving up the ranks as Cameron is doing was going to entail some growing pains, but I do believe that Cameron is slowly building this team from scratch.

    The Dolphins are 0-11 and we have lost 6 games by 3 points. A potential difference of a 6-5 record and our current record. One thing we have to keep in mind as well is we had some key injuries that have plagued this team, Green, Brown, Thomas, etc..

    As someone said earlier, this team didn't get broke overnight and it's not going to get fixed overnight. I'm really trying to be optimistic about the future of the Dolphins. What Camerson and Houck did for the offense in San Diego took a couple of seasons. I truly believe that if Huizenga IS committed to having the Dolphins get back in their winning ways, then he'll give them the tools they need.
     
  21. Finsavior

    Finsavior New Member

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    Great Post FITM!!!, but you also have to consider that many changes are not the teams' calls..., Saban went and we didn't fire him, Culpepper was released because he wanted to, he was angry because he couldn't perform healthy, both things in the past year..., but I agree with you, great teams are made from the beginning, you have to get youth and talented players and make them play together, you don't go to the free agency and search for the most talented veterans.

    GO PHINS!!!
     
  22. corran105

    corran105 New Member

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    I am all for continuity, I have been seeing the problems a lack of that causes for a very long time (one of the reasons why I rooted very hard for Feeley or Rosenfles to start over Frerotte two years ago), but Cam has to show he is capable of making the decisions neccesary to win on game day. You wouldn't build a franchise with Ray Lucas at QB just for continuity's sake, and that's what keeping a winless Cam equates to.
     
  23. Finsavior

    Finsavior New Member

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    Cam is not that bad, he hasn't had a mix of luck and the necessary weapons, he has lost 6 games for less than 3 points, meaning that with a little of luck and a little more of effort, we could have been 6 - 5..., we can't afford firing Cam, not for at least 4 more years..., I think that we are playing even better than last year, offensive calls are more logical and work better, its just our defense which hasn't plugged well yet.

    Give Cam some more time, let the players grow and come along together and we won't have the problems that we have today.

    GO PHINS!!!
     
  24. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I agree....Cam deserves more time. But here's where Im a little mixed on the situation. There are the possibility of 3 HOF coaches that could be available next year. Cowher, Shott, and Tuna...although I think Parcells is pretty much done with coaching. But..I cant help but wonder what it might be like to have Bill Cowher running things from the sideline. I just see the guy as being the type of coach who wills his teams to succeed. So...while I think Cam could right the ship and get things going.....I feel much better that Cowher would be able to do it. So..in my case...a really bad record, mixed with who is available to coach.....at least makes me think about making a change.

    If we lose Sunday.....I really think the calls for Cam to step down will become outright Screams. This is a game we should win. This is a game we have to win. Losing at home to a very..VERY beatable Jets team...when we are 0-11...will have horrible consequences for the rest of the year. We have been able to take the high ground so far...we lose this..and I think youll see players starting to lose some composure.
     
  25. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    OK, here goes. I dont want a new coach just yet. Cam needs time to get his players on this team so he can run the offense like he wants. Have there been questionable calls? Of course. There always are in hindsight, but I know that he knows ALOT more about his personnel, and football, than I do. He has to be given time to build. WE CANT KEEP CHANGING COACHES EVERY OTHER YEAR!!! FOR ANY REASON!!
    Cowher has said he is not going to coach for at least another year, so he can be home when his daughter graduates. He is out of the equation for another year. Shotty wins in the regular season, that is it. There is NO REASON that team couldnt have won it all last year and I am no longer interested in just winning in the regular season. I want a championship. I like the TUNA but I dont know that he would stay around long enough to build anything. There is to big of a risk that he would leave at the NEXT big offer. Also, How many times has he already retired? NO THANKS. This seems like nothing more than a 'grass is always greener' attitude. Every team goes through this. It is now our turn. I hate it but, that is life in the NFL.

    I dont understand the 'We SHOULD win' statement. WE ARE 0-11. We shouldnt beat ANYBODY. We have a CHANCE to win. But it isnt like we are a powerhouse. Yes, we are the Dolphins, but right now, we suk. THe jets are saying the same thing you are, we should beat the FINS, and... They are VERY beatable. I do agree that we NEED to win this one, big time, but we are on our 3rd QB, a move I like, for the record, and our 2nd/ 3rd RB, depending on where you really put Ricky. Our line is improving, but I wouldnt call it dominating. It needs upgrades too. We have 1 consistant WR, and that is our rookie. I am about ready to give up on Hagan. (How can 1 guy, with so much potential, drop so many passes.) They have already cut or traded most of the high priced dead weight, with more to come next year after they have time to evaluate what we have left. So this might take 3 or 4 years to build. Why start over AGAIN, when the new guys will have to start over again with trying to get THEIR type of guys in here which will mean a , 'here we go again atitude.' No one would be winning with the team we have now, maybe a game or two, but........
     
  26. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    It be okay to make a topic like this if we were 0-4; but 0-11 closing in on Tampa Bay's NFL record?

    Yeah, what ever.
     
  27. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Good thread Ken...must be all in the name :thumbup:

    As was mentioned, it didnt get broke overnight, and its not gonna get fixed overnight..
    Cmon folks. The previous regimes have stripped this once proud franchise of everything by trying their darndest to fix things.
    Bad trades and bad drafts have seriously devestated the amount of talent, depth and youth on this team..
    I see more turn-around in the second two areas than I have in a decade.
    Give it a little more time...Cam/Ram is on the right track IMO. Of course we are going to get better through the draft this year, that is what happens when you pick 1st.
    Our Cap situation is the best it has been in a decade going into next year, we have a true feature back (IF he recovers fully) we have much upgrade in QB I believe in Beck, our Offensive line is looking the best it has looked in a decade...and our defense is starting to play better and better.

    One thing that hasnt been broached. I would like to see ANY coach win with
    1. Starting stud RB out for season
    2. Second string RB out
    3. Starting QB out for season
    4. Traded best WR (This is gonna be huge I think)
    5. Both Starting Safeties out for season
    6. All-WOrld MLB hasnt played much, and when he has was a shell of his former self
    7. Starting DE out much of season.
    8. 3rd string RB out for season....


    ALl in all I see much more upside than down. If we bring in another coach and scheme next year, it will still take that coach/regime 2 or more years to get a handle on things.
    Remember, Tuna coached a few years in Dallas before they started seeing his prowress. The current regime there is finally getting the dividends of what he has been putting together starting 3 years ago...once again

    It didnt get broken overnight, it aint gonna get fixed overnight.
     
  28. Ducken

    Ducken Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    I agree 100% with the original post. IMHO if Cam and Randy are give a chance with in a couple of years most fans will be thinking "what was I thinking when I wanted Cam fired??"
     
  29. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We can rehash everything over and over.

    The winning retreads? How many retreads have had teh same success? Tuna won a super bowl with teh giants, has he won any anywhere else? Cowher won 1 in 15 seasons been to 2. Does he have the l/t passion? That is will he want to saty longer than 3 years? If all we wanted was to be competitive and win enough to say we dont suck real bad, then Wanny was fine. 2004 is his only losing season.

    I would rather go with a guy who is fresh and hungry, I am sorry but I like Cam. Why? Because some of you think he is so inept that he doesnt realize he is losing, like he doesnt care, that it doesnt bother him. I like the fact that he is willing to endure this patch to get tio the goal, that he is steadfast and can stand teh heat, do you think he doesnt know what the feeling is in fandom? He has made mistakes, all rookie coaches do. But he has also been hamstrung by playing a fairly difficult sched. NE is a beast, Clev is much improved. Philli is struggling but still is a decent club, Buffalo is a decent team this year, Wash is very competitive, Pitt is tough team, Dallas is a contender. We lloked better than alot of teams vs many of them. He is also hamstrung by the numerous variations on his lineups over teh course of teh year due to injuries.

    Basically the impression I get is because he got Green and let Pepp walk many feel that is the reason for the downfall as if even if that was a mistake it was teh reason we are 0-11. Which utter lunacy. Green didnt give up 40+ points a game the start of the year and didnt cause ronnie to get hurt. Green had 1 known concussion and was a great fit for teh short term based on his knowledge of teh system and as a mentor to Beck, for which that value hasnt been measured yet and cant be quantified. So while it turned out bad, no way you KNEW or could KNOW it was gonna happen. EIther way sorry Pepp wasnt teh answer. He has played well against teams that have their own issues and arent very good, he himself was benched and will be at some point for good in favor of Russel.

    Change is needed yes, we changed alot last offseason and got 4 starters out of it in the draft. Cant do it all in one offseason.

    He deserves another year to let the progression take hold or to hang himself.

    Like I said grass aint always greener
     
  30. FinzFan

    FinzFan Get Out of My Goat Locker

    Say What!? Sure am glad they didn't ALL do that.
     
  31. mullingan

    mullingan New Grandbaby Pic!!!

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    CAM and Randy need to stay, and I am sure they will. Bad luck this season will transfer into depth/better starter play next year. Even at 10-0 and playing in the conditions they played in Monday night, I still saw a team that had not quit. The experience, mental toughness, and familiarization gained this year will enable us to finish the deal in games next year. We have been close in alot of games and have not been able to close out games. IMO CAM is building a foundation and if we can have success in the draft in 08 that we had in 07 things could turn around quickly. Yeah the book is still out on some of our draft picks but overall I think it will turn out to be an excellent draft class.
     
  32. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Dude, Cam is that bad, we are 0-11.

    That being said, is Cam the guy to lead us next season? Will we be ready to play mistake free winning football with the right player in position to make plays week in and week out and develop talent for the future?

    I have to say I don't know, I do think Cam is one heck of good teacher, our players don't make dumb plays.

    Prepared every week in all phases of the game to win?

    Right now I've got to say No.

    But I do think we will improve with Cam at the helm, in both talent and scheme and John Beck development into a NFL QB.

    Look at the young players getting chances to play:

    Satele
    Ginn
    Beck
    Reagen
    Hagan
    Wright
    Allen


    7 out of 22 of our starters, including skill position players are Rooks or 2nd year players, not bad.

    We need Hagan and Roth to show something as well as LBook.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2007

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