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Get us a freakin' cornerback!

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Styla, Mar 8, 2009.

  1. Styla

    Styla #1 Davone Bess Fan!!!

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  2. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    What's hilarious is that if the Dolphins were to go and sign Chris McAlister, we'd easily have the same level of CBs as New England (Hobbs-Springs versus Allen-McAlister) yet people would have a cow that we're not better there. Why is it that you guys don't appreciate the fact that it's the pressure players that matter the most?

    The teams that this New England juggernaut have lost to have simply beaten them like bastards by means of rushing Brady-Cassell. There are plenty of players available, the pass rush is first-and-foremost though.

    Heck I might even look into Micheal Lehan if I'm Miami. He was solid when he was here, a good #3 at times a #2 and he'd come cheap. He has size-speed, experience, and brings it in run support.

    I agree finding a #1 CB is worth it when you can but they come along VERY rarely. They have hardly any flaws and are incredible in their abilities. The difference between a good and decent CB at the #2 and nickel though is marginal. Ya you'd like it but there's a much bigger difference between let's say having Matt Roth on pass downs versus Lamar Woodley than say Andre Goodman versus Jason Allen.
     
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  3. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Agree for the most part.

    They liked Lehan and did sign him to a contract last season, but his injury cast enough doubt that they released him instead of putting him on IR. That's a move I don;t understand unless they felt they wouldn't be comfortable having him reutnr under the same contract figures the next year. Obviously it was an injury they felt would affect him significantly in the long term, either in terms of his ability to perform long term, or his chances of reinjury long term.

    So, maybe they are willing to try him out on the cheap, with no downside to cutting him... but wouldn;t they have signed him already? I think they didn;t like the look of the injury and have moved on. Same fate as the promising Billingsly.

    As regards a pressure player on the front verus a cornerback, I always prioritize players who play closer to the LOS and the ball. They influence a far higher % of plays. A great OLB or DE will impact running plays in addition to passing plays. Cornerbacks have very minimal role in the run defense. In pass defense, the OLB/DE who can pressure the pocket makes it hard for the QB to throw to ANY of his receivers. A great cornerback makes it hard for the QB to throw to ONE receiver.

    Order of priorities dictates that the player who influences more aspects of more plays should be a higher priority.

    To the OP, yes, I wish like heck we'd signed Ron Bartell. But we didn't, and if we don;t throw big dollars after Cornerbacks it's because, as Jaj has argued, they are... well... secondary.

    ;)
     
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  4. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    It's not just a question though of who we sign but rather the difference in the play between the candidates. At this point it's likely McFadden is asking for 7m a year. Is he really 3m a year better than Phillip Buchanon (likely even more like a 3.5m difference since with a much better location and no income tax, it took Detroit a few more dollars to sign the guy)?

    There's a reason the Dolphins have stalled in this effort. They view a group of probably five guys as equivalent in free agency. They'll likely get one but at their price. Whoever is left essentially will be a Dolphin.

    I'm not sure I even believe the Darius Butler rumors at 25. This regime loves ignoring the secondary and being cutesy, ya it can burn them at times but they just don't see a difference in many of these guys.
     
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  5. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In support of Jaj's and Bpk's point, remember when we had the two best corners in football but couldn't stop teams like New England from moving it down the field on us when it counted? You can complete a pass on even the best DBs when you have all day to wait for your receivers to get open. Conversely, when the quarterback is running for his life mediocre corners look like all-pros. Likewise, when your rush is in the backfield when the RB gets the handoff, you can't take the pressure off the QB by running the ball.

    I'm not suggesting we field bad corners; just that it's nothing to get desperate over and break the bank right now for. For now, I'd rather have a great pass rush than a great DB.

    The pass rush has got to be improved from last year's, Peezy's sack production notwithstanding. We don't need to get desperate at corner. It's a long offseason.
     
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  6. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    Brilliant brother, could not have said it better.:hi5:
     
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  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'd also like to point out, that you should never make a decision based on panicking. Regardless of who's in our division, the FO needs to stick to their plan and do things the way they do things. Let them build this team, through the draft and the right free agent acquisitions, so we'll be a perennial powerhouse, instead of a team that shoots its wad at one chance and fails like the Jets last year. We're good right now, and we're working on being great. Once we hit great, then we can alter a thing or two to become the best of the great.

    Point is, its a process, sit back and enjoy it.
     
  8. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I agree but let me ask you this, when that Pass rush doesn't get the job done (and there are plenty of games with 1 sack or Zero sacks and little pressure) your corners are exposed. This year of all years we need those corners to be able to hold up. With our current players we are just plain average to below average and defense was the PROBLEM last year.. Were playing alot of good teams this year with deep passing ability.
     
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  9. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    i dunno if we merge this "we need a CB" threads into one, i think the database will explode, its basically 1-2 every day now.....
     
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  10. jason8er

    jason8er Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    This years CB situation kinda resembles last year's OL situation. Last year at this time, we were all worried about the depleted OL and that turned out okay. These guys have yet another plan in the works, and until the trifecta lets me down, I'm at ease with what they are doing.
     
  11. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is all true. But if you can't have both and you have to set a priority of which one to improve first, I'll take the rush before the corners.

    Having said that, I'll bet that by the end of the offseason we end up with two pretty good corners AND a rush. Why? Because Parcells is smarter than the average Tuna.
     
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  12. Styla

    Styla #1 Davone Bess Fan!!!

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    Free-agent CB choices dwindling with Bryant McFadden signing

    I will just add this here instead of making a new thread!!!


    http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...oices-dwindling-with-bryant-mcfadden-signing/
     
  13. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    The options actually haven't dwindled all that much. I'd love to see Micheal Lehan back as a Dolphin since he has both size-speed and willingness to play the run. He'd be a cheap guy to have and would give us a little insurance at least.
     
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  14. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I didn't love what I saw of Darius Butler on NFL Network's Prime U. The kid was defnitely a bit of a wussy. He *did* run decently at the Combine. A combine where I felt all the times were systemically a little high and that the athletes were getting shafted a bit by the track or the timing system. I felt that you could almost take 0.03-0.05 off most players' times across the board to be more in line with how they all usually run. EVERYONE couldn't have had a slow, bad day on the same day, you know?

    So, that said, Butler's 4.41 at the combine to me is more likely a 4.37 under fair but favorable conditions.

    Interesting bit about a chip he has on his choulder: http://www.courant.com/video/?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=3474243
     
  15. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Sure, when your primary chute fails to open, you gotta have the secondary chute.

    But which one is of primary importance? If that first chute is high quality and functions, you should never to rarely be using your secondary chute.

    I agree, though, that both are important. But pass Rush trumps Corner play in my book.

    And if we focus on improving the pass rush, there won't BE any zero sack games.
     
  16. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Basically the point is if we had a great pass rush we could likely get away with Allen, Allen, a top 1-2 round rookie, say Micheal Lehan, and Nate Jones (who might turn into another Goodman).

    So the question is do we take Larry English to accomplish that? Do we take Clint Sintim? Or do we make a move for an ILB like Rey Rey to bring it up the middle. So many questions...
     
  17. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box


    I disagree that there are plenty.

    In two games we had zero sacks (Rams, second Jets game).

    In two games we had one sack (Texans, Broncos).

    That's 4/16 games. So, 75% of the time we have a good pass rush... even with it only being Joey Porter who is good at rushing the passer.

    So, my point is... if you ADD to our pass rush. Add to a pass rush that has a GOOD day against QB's 75% of the time already... you simply won;t have any zero sack days.

    Imagine an ILB who can blitz well, or an OLB opposite Porter who is great at rushing the passer.

    We'd be talking about 95% of the games having 2 sacks or more, since we are ALREADY at 75%.

    That sort of pressure is awesome.

    Now, thoe only thing I see as a great concern to prioritizing rushers over CBs is the Spread Offense being used against us. That's the Pats offense. They'd kill us with 5-10 yard passes in a 4 wide formation. Those little passes are on a three step drop and negate the pass rush because the rushers don;t have time to get there... unless you get pressure up the MIDDLE. That's why I'd love an ILB who can blitz very well.
     
  18. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I'd like top know why they didn;t IR him when he got injured. They had just signed him to a multi year deal and they released him outright after getting a look at his injury.

    Not auspicious.
     
  19. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Rey Rey if he is there. Problem is, he is undsiciplined in his run lane responsibilities. Too out of control and SParano is ALL about doing exactly what you're supposed to. It's why he loves Cobbs and Camarillo and reviles Jason Allen.
     
  20. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Then the answer may in fact be DUN DUN DUN, Clint Sintim.

    He's the one guy who could double as an OLB and as a ILB. He would probably start at some point inside if they wanted him to. I hate the crap he's been getting since the season ended. He's still in the same place in my honest opinion.

    I wish we had signed McFadden so we can shutup about this stupid CB issue and go nab English, trade up from 44 just a bit and nab Sintim as well. I mean it's the same **** the scouts pulled with Woodley a couple years ago. Who gives a **** if he doesn't run around like a flamingo and look gracefully. He's a pass rusher a ****ing pass rusher. Can he get to the QB? Does he have edge speed? Does he have moves? Does he have good size? That's all I give a **** about. Wonderful he can play in coverage. Great I'll just have my guy that's learning to play in coverage do that by year 3 but guess what your coverage flamingo still can't get to the QB.

    He struggled in linebacker drills... What the hell did you have him do? He's practically a defensive end sure he's going to struggle a little bit. Boom suddenly he starts dropping and now we have hear such crap as if you pick him at 25 he's a reach. Um okkk ya and then if we pick him at 34 he's suddenly a whopping value. I guess Jamar Fletcher was such a great decision over Drew Brees. After all Drew Brees was an early second round pick rated player but he was taken with the 32nd overall slightly ahead of schedule. It's that kind of logic that's mind-boggling about the draft.

    It's such a dream for this team to get pressure players that you may even see Parcells break his philosophy to get two that's right two pressure players at the top of the draft, his CB, and his WR. You could possibly see them use the fourth rounder to move up or get creative with whatever they do. Not getting to the quarterback for Bill Parcells is the equivalent of us seeing him in his hat and short shorts coaching in Dallas. Flat out disgusting.
     
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  21. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    At this time of year, a lot of organizations start talking crap about exactly the guys they love... protecting those guys from getting too hyped and being chosen ahead of where the team picks.

    I think more teams probably like Sintim than are letting on.
     
  22. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I get that feeling as well. The production, the physical ability (combine wasn't as bad as advertised). He's essentially the Jake Long of 2009 at OLB. This time apparently he can't cover and doesn't have range is the word instead of kick-slide.
     
  23. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Around this time of year, people's ratings get skewed by non-football stuff. Too many measurables being considered, not enough game film.

    Thus guys like Matt Jones end up being over-drafted.
     
  24. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Davone Bess of the world go undrafted. What a find...

    There is some use to this stuff though. Much of the combine is pretty damn useful it's when guys jettison themselves four rounds high because of speculation it's ridiculous.
     
  25. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    What I really don;t get is how everyone STILL writes off VERY talented running backs if they are too short....


    Despite ALL the best backs i history being short.

    Emmitt Smith
    Thurman Thomas
    Walter Payton
    Barry Sanders

    Active players like Warrick Dunn and Maurice Jones Drew.

    I mean, if you WATCH these guys play football and they are INCREDIBLE, then why do you care about the numbers? Especially runningbacks, who do BETTER when they have a lower center of gravity!!!

    Yet, every damned year you hear the ignorant babble about 'concerns' about talented running backs'' size when they are under 5' 11".

    Just a stunning example of losing sight of football and caring about Doctor's office stuff that only matters when measuring for shoes or caskets.
     
  26. Styla

    Styla #1 Davone Bess Fan!!!

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    :pity:

    http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL


    :up:

    http://www.kffl.com/team/22/nfl
     
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  27. High Definition

    High Definition No Smoke / No Drink 2011+

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    Right now Ted Ginn, Jr. has the most amount of potential to become the second best corner on the team. That's sad.
     
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  28. MelbournePhin

    MelbournePhin New Member

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    where's the "just relax and be patient" crowd at? they are looking more and more stupid as the days pass. we need mother****ing corner back help.
     
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  29. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Wow I hope not I mean Green has No stats! Yea he was on a superbowl defense but man his stats look lame.

    152 Tackles, 0 Sacks, and 2 Ints with 2 forced fumbles in 51 Games! Oh and 14 yrds on those returns.. Man that is pretty sad for a 3 year starter!


    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7251
     
  30. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    790 The Ticket is reporting a deal may be in the works for Champ Bailey.
     
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  31. TheAnswer385

    TheAnswer385 Stay Low Run Free

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    why am I hard?

    If true it deserves its own thread.
     
  32. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Champ has battled some injuries the last couple years, which is why Im not hard yet. Im sure we'll hear more about it today.
     
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  33. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    i am half chubbed.......




    that would be awesome!
     
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  34. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Things may or may not have gone the way the Trio thought they'd go so far in FA, but you have to figure they have a plan. FA isn't over with and generally, better bargains for temporary (1-3 yrs) FAs come after the initial rush.

    Even if they don't get a CB, there's no reason to panic just yet. There must be something with Jason Allen that we don't have privy to that makes them think that he'd at least fill in. And there's still the draft. Calm down, take a deep breath and just think of how much worse off we felt with Cam-Cam, Nicktator, Wan-less, etc...
     
  35. jupiterfin

    jupiterfin Mild Irritant

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    Considering we now have Randy Moss, Lee Evans and TO in our division, we really need to have corners that can cover these guys. Champ Bailey is almost a necessity at this point. Oh, and I have wood too thinking about this happening too :pointlol:
     
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  36. NYFinFan

    NYFinFan Member

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    Ken Lucas from Carolina was just released, so there's another possibility.
     
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  37. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    To be honest, I'm not into Bailey. Guy is a bit overrated IMO, is 31 and I think his body may be beginning to break down. He won't come cheap. I don't think there's anything to this report.

    Now Ken Lucas....as mentioned in the General NFL thread, I think we could do much worse. Another guy that is probably on the downside, but comes for 'free'.

    You never know. Maybe Lucas is the guy Ireland was waiting for.

    Regardless, I don't think Miami is going to sign a CB unless they get a good deal for him.
     
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  38. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Ok, I got an answer to your request...what about Ken Lucas ?? he was just cut by the Panthers....he's 30, but he's been a decent CB...??? You never know...
     
  39. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    What I do know is I think the front office wasn't expecting corners to cost this much and they had major sticker shock. They upgraded the safety position and thought they would get a decent corner. Now they look foolish as our CB position is a GLARRRRRRRING hole on the defense and the draft is not the answer for this year.

    No rookie is going to step in and cover the beasts we have to this year. I sure as hell hope our defensive ends can get to the QB quite alot this year to cover the sad sacks we got at corner.
     
  40. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    As suspected, no news of any talks of a trade for Champ Bailey.

    Gotta love these media guys.
    No news, meh, just make something up!
     

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