Good article on Richard Marshall..good competition.

I still like Marshall and want to give him a healthy season to prove himself. With him Grimes, Taylor and Davis we should be fine at CB this year. And hopefully the young guys step up next year and beyond.

"KingMotion wrote:

He gave up 12 YPC. I don't know what that number is like relative to the rest of the NFL but if it's bad then he may be good at staying with receivers but no so much staying on top of them. One play in one game isn't enough to convince me that Marshall is going to be good. I'm still in the camp of cutting him.

Allowed About a 78 qbr, 55 completion percentage..12 ypc seems high.

Fact is, we haven't seen the better Marshall that we signed up for. He's been hurt. Can he regain that status?? Only time will tell...Additionally, even if he regains that form, will Taylor still oust him from the lineup ?? Something else only time will tell us...

The secondary, particularly CB battles seem to be shaping up to be fun to watch in camp, and maybe the team will be better for it than Smith and Davis were, when most of us felt we were 'ok' at that spot....

God forbid we actually have depth at CB for a change.

His stats in Arizona are thrown off by the reps he took as a safety. PFF doesn't do a very good job accounting for those.

For a guy like him, who moved so frequently between perimeter corner, slot corner, and safety...there's no substitute for film study unless all of the snaps at all of the positions are accounted for properly.

Here are the NFL averages at the three positions from 2012.

Safety: 0.56 Yards/Snap, 8.15 YPA, 12.9 YPC
Slot: 1.25 Yards/Snap, 7.33 YPA, 11.1 YPC
Corner: 1.28 Yards/Snap, 7.73 YPA, 13.3 YPC

All we know for sure that PFF has isolated is that Marshall spent 144 snaps at Slot, where QBs completed 11 of 23 balls for 152 yards. Those numbers (1.06 YPS and 6.61 YPA) are good for a slot corner. Above average.

But for the remaining 356 snaps, we have no way of delineating how much time he spent at corner and how much at safety...and that's important, because the expectations for the efficiency metrics at the two positions are very, very different. QBs completed 17 of 31 passes on him for 241 yards. The yards per attempt matches up with "average" on the perimeter.

Should also keep in mind, he had 6 defensive penalties accepted in 2011. Only 8 other corners had more penalties accepted than that. Part of the issue in 2012 with him in Miami is that he had 3 accepted penalties. His 26 yard pass interference against the Texans gave them a near-free touchdown by putting them First & Goal on the 1 yard line. He had a similar 12 yard pass interference penalty against Baltimore in 2011. He did it again in the Jets game, a pass interference in the end zone that turned a 2nd & 4 from the 4 yard line into a 1st & 1 from the 1 yard line, which dramatically decrease Miami's chances of holding to a field goal. He had a holding against the Jets that was declined because Santonio Holmes caught the 38 yard pass anyway.

Overall in Miami, in very limited time, he allowed 207 yards receiving and 2 TDs on 23 attempts his direction, and he also gift-wrapped 2 additional TDs with pass interference penalties. He allowed 9.4 yards per attempt on the perimeter, not even counting the penalties. People with a gripe about what he's done in Miami...I think that's legitimate.

If you go back to Carolina, where his metrics are not muddied by time at safety, you see in the slot he allowed 338 yards on 49 targets and 300 snaps. That's 6.90 YPA and 1.13 YPS, which are good numbers for the slot. Notice how similar they are to his numbers in Miami and Arizona. But on the perimeter he allowed 424 yards on 48 attempts and 238 snaps. That's 8.83 YPA and 1.78 YPS. Those are bad numbers. And he had another 7 accepted penalties, where only 3 other corners in the NFL had more.

So is it really surprising that in Miami he A) Did well in the slot, B) Sucked on the perimeter, and C) Drew an inordinate number of penalties?

No. Not surprising.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Should also keep in mind, he had 6 defensive penalties accepted in 2011. Only 8 other corners had more penalties accepted than that. .

Beat me to it. I was going to mention this point when I had the time. I'm not basing it off any PFF stats. It's just what I saw from watching him last year. He got called for several penalties and if he didn't get called for one, many a time he was damn close to getting called for one. He stayed with and blanketed the receiver pretty well, but then he would go a bit too far and get flagged. It used to frustrate the hell out of me. I guess he can be good if they can coach up that one flaw.

he'll be cut, effectively putting a cherry on top of Ireland's abysmal 2012 free agency.

It wouldn't surprise me if Miami had Grimes and Taylor starting out wide with Marshall as the slot CB come opening day. I'd figure some combination of Will Davis along with R.J. Stanford, De'Andre Presley, Nolan Carroll, Don Jones and Julian Posey rounded out the last 2-3 CB spots. I'd expect Patterson to be cut if the keep Marshall or vice versa.

R.J. Stanford got a lot of time down the stretch, and was a decent special teams player. Presley was released then brought back, and I believe it was KB21 who said the coaching staff was pretty him on him. Wouldn't surprise me given some of the projects Coyle had in Cincinnati. Nolan Carroll...not sure where to begin, end, or what with him. As for Jones and Posey, I'd like to think one of them could turn into a competent special teamer while they develop into a position.

*Note, I'm not counting Jimmy Wilson as a corner. I think he'll be more of a safety this year. Also very interested to see what Kelcie McCray is all about.

Richard Marshall is tied for the 6th most penalized defensive back in the NFL from 2010 to 2012. And he played only a quarter of 2012.

I wasn't impressed with Stanford down the stretch. But I was impressed with McCann. He's very athletic too, had great numbers coming out. Don't know why they didn't keep him.

"LBsFinest wrote:

he'll be cut, effectively putting a cherry on top of Ireland's abysmal 2012 free agency.

What was that class LB?, you remember?

"RoninFin4 wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me if Miami had Grimes and Taylor starting out wide with Marshall as the slot CB come opening day. I'd figure some combination of Will Davis along with R.J. Stanford, De'Andre Presley, Nolan Carroll, Don Jones and Julian Posey rounded out the last 2-3 CB spots. I'd expect Patterson to be cut if the keep Marshall or vice versa.

R.J. Stanford got a lot of time down the stretch, and was a decent special teams player. Presley was released then brought back, and I believe it was KB21 who said the coaching staff was pretty him on him. Wouldn't surprise me given some of the projects Coyle had in Cincinnati. Nolan Carroll...not sure where to begin, end, or what with him. As for Jones and Posey, I'd like to think one of them could turn into a competent special teamer while they develop into a position.

*Note, I'm not counting Jimmy Wilson as a corner. I think he'll be more of a safety this year. Also very interested to see what Kelcie McCray is all about.

Honestly, if I don't look at numbers and just base iy on what I saw in terms of brief flashes, Patterson looks like he could be our nickel, he seemed to have the quickness required for the inside, let Davis take the dime, roll into the season with Grimes, Taylor, Patterson, Davis, and whoever.