Wow, four assists. And your right, you are not an apologist for Lebron, what was I thinking. And yeah, despite playing basketball, coaching it and watching it for four decades - technically five - all I apparently know is scoring is all there is to the game. And now you are past borderline insulting since you have done this twice. I think you have become to defensive about Lebron to have an objective viewpoint on him and his game, especially in these finals. The man is a GREAT player but he needs to bring all assets of his game for the Heat to win, just not a few.
Since Riley also said that he saw a lot of Magic in Lebron's game then I guess he's insulting you too. Or maybe somebody not agreeing with you isn't an insult but rather a difference of opinion. And I'm not apologizing for Lebron b/c I stated before the season what my expectations for him this season were and he's exceeded them. Apologizing or making excuses as you're implying would be if I said he was going to score 40 and then had to make an excuse as to why he didn't. I didn't even have the Heat as the best team this year (Before the season, I had them making the finals and losing, although it was to the Lakers), so if they lose then I'm not disappointed and if they win, then well my favorite team won.
I think that's a ridiculous standard I argue about every draft. You can't compare total career accomplishments until the careers are complete, but you can compare skills, styles and even accomplishments at similar points in their career.
I was referring to his play in the 4th quarter reminds me nothing of Magic, there are alot of things LeBron does that are similar to Magic overall. And I can take a difference of an opinion on an topic, but when you sit there and suggest all I know and care about is scoring, that's an opinion on me and my knowledge.
zero assists in the last 5 minutes, a gimme layup when the game is over and terry lighting him up is disappearing
Okay then James has comparable numbers to Magic and just as many championships as Jordan had at this point in his career. I'm not even much of James fan, but I find the constant attacking against him as irrational. I don't see any measure where he hasn't been a great player. He's had bad games but so has just about every superstar and overall he's been great in the playoffs.
I am not being irrational nor am I attacking him, I am calling it has I'm seeing it, I don't particularly care for James but I will always separate what an individual does off the court to what they do on the court. I have said many times and in this thread he is a great player, the only difference is I don't think he has matched what he has done in the regular season to this postseason. And I honestly don't think his numbers are comparable to Magic mostly because Lebron's assists don't come close to Magic's assist average, on top of that he don't need to be Magic for the Heat to win, he just needs to be Lebron, and if he is they will win.
But, no one has said that. They've said he's magic, he's this or that. None of them have said "at this point in their careers" or "after 5 years" or whatever. What has been said is he's the next Magic Johnson, he the next whoever, or that he's more clutch than Kobe a guy with 5 rings. If the people who are saying those statements wish to better qualify their statements then thats fine, but it also changes the debate. Those statements set the argument, those statements are what people are responding to. And if your statement is true, then everyone in this thread who has said LeBron is the next player x or whatever are also incorrect, not simply the people responding to them saying he isn't. They have chosen to say that, others have responded in kind. Yet, only the posters who have said LeBron isn't those guys have been told you can't compare careers. Why? Is there some reason only half the antagonists are being singled out?
I know this post wasn't directed at me, but since I've been quasi lumped into the 'hate for LBJ' portion of the program I feel I have to respond. I haven't said he's crap, I have said he disappears at the end of games, and thats from me watching him against my Celtics for several years, and other games including these finals. I haven't said he quits or anything of the sort. I have said that most would agree whether you support or hate the guy that getting more than 2-4 points in the 4th quarter would be welcomed. He does make other plays, but those plays are not what makes him great in of themselves. His rebounds and assists are complementary to his scoring. His scoring is a primary part of the equation as with most great players; especially at forward. If we got the same production from an average player then yeah, I'd say he's doing great. But this is a guy who is lauded for his ability to expose a defense, and to close out games by many. If so, he can't actually close out games if he doesn't take more than 2-3 shots in the 4th; it just doesn't work out. He is making other plays, yes, but again most (on either side of the fence) would want more from him in terms of points. This isn't based solely on scoring, but the great players are typically recognized as great scorers unless the other element of their game is noted as being their primary asset. James' scoring is considered his primary asset, and while he does make other plays, I don't think its on the same level as his scoring. Thats not a knock on him, thats true of just about every player, unless as I said they are lauded for the other aspects of the game - Bruce Bowen for defense and The Worm for rebounding. He's a scorer first, I think thats an easy statement to agree on, and it doesn't diminish the fact he does make other plays. But a scorer you're going to want points from, or at the worst having him take more than maybe 2-3 shots per 4th quarter. Its hard to be a scorer when you aren't really taking shots. I'm not saying go Iverson all of a sudden and take every shot possible, but I think he does need to take more than 2-3 shots pwer game in the 4th.
Scoring was the focus of why there was "shrinking". He blew up on his jump shots during the Boston and Chicago series and he wasn't shrinking. Now his jump shots don't fall and he's shrinking and I'm an apologist for saying James isn't a scorer. Even during the game 6 telecast one of the announcers said what I had been saying all along, "Wade is a scorer, but James isn't" "James feels his way into the offense". He gets his points through his jump shot, at the FT line and in transition, that's his offensive game. In this series the Mavs were rarely in the penalty so a big part of James scoring particularly his 4th qtr scoring went away.
As I said above, James is not a scorer first. That's what fans and the media focus on. Even though the announcer specifically said that James was a not a scorer, but a guy who has to feel his way into the offense, most of the media are point obsessed. So no, it's not an easy statement to agree upon. If the finals had been called similarly to game 6 and similarly to the rest of the playoffs and regular season then the Mavs would have been in the penalty more and Lebron would probably have had more FTs and thus more points. He still wouldn't have been a scorer, but the fans would have been mollified by the points (and complained about something else, most likely).
Another point when comparing eras that doesn't get brought up is that Magic/MJ, etc., didn't have to deal with zone defenses. Dallas used the zone effectively at times to take LBJ out of his rhythm and force him into jump shots. The zone simply didn't exist back then, and frankly, it's horrible and should be made illegal again, but that's a different story for a different day.
They also didn't have hand-check fouls and bail-out calls weren't nearly as prevelant. The NBA was much more physical in the 80's and 90's (Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley would have been much different players if forced to play under these rules).
I have to say, after watching LeBron in the Pistons series a few years ago, or the Orlando series - or even the Chicago series this year... It is STAGGERING to watch him play like that in the Finals. It wasn't that he was doing anything 'wrong' per se, he just wasn't doing much right. He wasn't driving, he wasn't staying active. Dallas realized they could put Jet and Kidd on LeBron and he wouldn't take them in the post. When they were helping on defense LeBorn wouldn't drive to the hole to force them to come off their guys. It was insane. I've watched LeBron play at such an incredibly high level that it was almost hard to watch him the last few games. He wasn't the same player. I have no idea how to explain it. Make all the excuses you want - but that wasn't the player LeBron can be. Not even close. I just can't get over how passive he was. (Not trying to be a 'hater' but I think his performance is worth discussing. It wasn't what we saw in the Chicago or Boston series and it wasn't what we've come to expect throughout his career.)
lebron made an effort to start near the basket, but you can tell he really doesnt know what to do down there. my god, the guy could be a terror if the offense ran through him at the elbow with his back to the basket. he can use his passing skills and strength
LeBron James' a Hall of Famer and I'm sure he'll end up with a championship ring or two by the time he retires. However, ESPN, Nike, and journalists are guilty of manufacturing the halo effect for Lebron James. It is time to distill his career and define what he isn't: 1) He isn't a leader. He's too self-obsessed and immature to lead, and I doubt he can really connect with people. 2) He isn't a closer. Don't ask him to take over big games. A pure facilitator, like Magic Johnson, could on a dime and kill you with clutch scoring. A pure scorer like Kobe Bryant will deliver clutch scoring, or if the shots aren't falling, hustle on defense and grab critical rebounds. Bill Russell was never intimidated, he was a non-stop defensive monster. Lebron James doesn't have any of that in his DNA. 3) He isn't a true team player. It was his job to learn to play with Wade. Wade isn't much of a leader, but seemingly tried to meet him more than half-way. James is inflexible about his role, which causes confusion during fourth quarters. No, he'll make the Hall of Fame based on his stats and to a lesser degree the persona that has been manufactured to sell sneakers. In terms of his legacy; he still has time to turn it around, but if he doesn't, the sports media will soon start the next barrage of stories. Transforming James from Air Apparent to a cautionary tale.
He isn't a closer..till he buries Boston and Chicago under a avalanche of points down the stretch. to in fact....CLOSE. "Wade is not a leader". He just happens to have the biggest SACK in the NBA and a mean streak to boot. He is actually what Kobe Bryant wants to be. He is the closest thing to Jordan, and when he is done, he will be the #2 SG of all-time. How do some of you write this ****?
Absolute crap. Sorry, it is. LBJ LED a Cleveland team whose second best player was Anderson Varaejo to the Finals in 2007. He then LED a Cavs team featuring Varaejo and other assorted bums like Mo Williams to the best record in the league twice. Wade and LBJ co-existed just fine. That was never a problem, ONCE the entire season. Yeah, LBJ had a sub-par (for him, not for 99% of NBA players) in the Finals. It happens. but to say that he isn't a leader, or can't take over games/series is just ignorant. If LBJ is 36 and still hasn't won a ring then we can talk, but the man is 26. Jordan didn't win his first title till he was 27 and ended up with 6. I'll take my chances with LBJ on my team and you can have a team without him. I'll be celebrating more often than not.
This is the biggest thing to me. I've seen him take over series. I've seen him be the hero. What the HELL happened vs Boston last year and Dallas this year? It is remarkable and unlike anything I've seen before. He didn't choke - he wasn't missing shots and playing terribly - he just completely blended in. You can say he was playing "smart" or "within the system" but he had been aggressive and dominant throughout so much of the playoffs. And in an elimination game that was close and needed a hero - he didn't even make an effort to take over. The LeBron I've watched for so long would have come down and jacked up a few heat-check threes. He would have driven to the rim for the foul - or even launched up a bunch of terrible jumpers trying to get a rythm going. You can say it was just a bad series or he was off - but I've never seen a player just fundamentally change his game like that. He was doing all those things vs Chicago and even in the win vs Dallas in game 1. I'm not trying to bash him or say he CAN'T do it - I've seen him do it. I just find it staggering to watch him play like this. There has to be something there - a reason of some sort. But it is strange that it has happened two years in a row.
I'm not in the guys head. Who knows what he is thinking. But I'm pretty sure that he was trying to help his team in whatever way he could. Perhaps he thought, given the Dallas defense and lack of calls, that the facilitator role was the best way for him to help the team. It certainly worked in Game 3, and to an extent in Game 5.
They just didn't let him get in the lane. Its not hard to stop one player from getting in the paint if that is your goal.
I don't disagree he saw what they were giving him and tried to play within that - but he wasn't trying his jumper or any of the other staples of his game (pull-up threes). I've seen LeBron take over a game without getting in the paint - or at least try to get going. He just didn't even make an attempt and that is what I found odd. He did it in Game 1 - so he knew it was possible - and just never went back to it.
He did try to go to the jumpshot. He hit a few early yesterday, then he started missing. But Dallas was the 28th ranked team defending SGs in the NBA. Letting Wade handle the bulk of the scoring was the right move IMO.
here ya go: Another well thought out article analyzing Lebron James post season. http://deadspin.com/5811396/ This is great investigative journalism.
Frankly, I feel sorry for some of these people that their lives are so empty so that they take such pleasure in hating another human being who isn't Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, etc. I doubt that author (and I use that term loosely) could even muster up such passion about any of history's true monsters. No, a basketball player who is somehwta arrogant inspires a screed of epic proportion. Sad, sad sad.
It's Deadspin, guys. It is what they do - thats how they get pageviews. If it were some legitimate publication I can see the outrage - but what did you expect? It's not like they're competing with The Onion for a Pulitzer this year.
No outrage here. Just sad that is the prevailing viewpoint even though Simmons, Whitlock, etc., don't have the balls to put it so bluntly and with such bile.
That doesn't make them a legitimate journalistic operation. They write sensationlist headlines to get views. They're Perez Hilton. (Though - I wouldn't put ESPN far behind in terms of journalistic integrity.)
This is rich. Yes I'm sure that writer hates LeBron more than Adolf Hitler. Or maybe he just realizes that Lebron isn't that popular outside of Miami and is catering to an audience. Maybe that's the explanation...
Hey, the guy wrote it the way he wrote it, not me. You read it. Ever seen a writer with a national platform write something like that about somebody who isn't a criminal or worse? Think it's even a little over the top?
It looked like comedy to me not a legitimate sports article. Jon Stewart has a 'national platform'. That doesn't mean that half the things that come out of his mouth are meant to be taken seriously.
Well if it was comedy it failed miserably. And Jon Stewart makes fun of all politicians but he lets you know that he has a particular political viewpoint. Having a difference in political views is one thing. to simply hate a basketball player who has done nothing wrong other than appear on a slightly tacky tv show (once, 11 months ago) is a little pathetic.
People need to give LBJ a break. He's only 26, played straight out of high school and is still maturing as a player. Jordan didn't even win a championship until he was 28 because of the Pistons.
