GoT4:4614

"dol-fan dupree wrote:

i don't agree. Of the 1000 pages that weren't sadism in the books, most of them were description of food.

ftfy.

"shula_guy wrote:

I can't decide if I want to read the spoiler.I was asking just because I was wondering who stood to win and who stood to lose from his death

the only person who loses from Joffrey's death is Cersei because she was the only person that cared for him. Everyone else wins because the psycho child king is out of the picture and there is another "Baratheon" that can keep the status quo intact

Kind of a weird episode. Didn't hate it by any means, some good **** went down. Arya and the Hound are still boss. Tywin, Oberyn, and Tyrion were all tight. Podrick is a true bro. I loved when Tommen said "Wisdom" we see Tywin react like, "Oh thank god, the kid isn't an idiot!" The Wall stuff is getting interesting... Wish we got more than just a taste of the wildling fight. Dany being a bad b****, going all valyrian. She is the Queen of the white knights, that's for sure. Oh, and Littlefinger confirming his involvement and continuing to be the proverbial monkey wrench. But... I had three issues with this episode.

- New Daario is absolute trash. No charm, no charisma, no danger... I don't mind recasting if it has to be done and works. But New Daario is a totally different character... It's like HBO did a focus group and old Daario got ripped to shreds so they made him a pet rock, as inoffensive as possible. They're going to need to recast him... again. This new guy can't hang. He's too soft. Soft looking and soft spoken. The former could be tolerated if the latter wasn't so against what we already know the character to be. By far the worst casting this show has seen. Seriously, **** him...

- Am I the only one who wants to change the channel when Sam and Gilly (individually and/or together) are on screen? Total waste of screen time.

- Feminists are in an uproar over the Jaime "rape" scene. Was that rape? She seemed to be kind of into it at times, despite her protesting... A very weird scene. I'm not really sure what they were trying to accomplish. If it's to turn Jaime "bad" again, that makes no sense... and if it was suppose to be Ceresi trying to deny her true feelings, despite wanting Jaime (she seemed to still be interested when she *****ed out Brienne), than the scene was poorly executed.

"Clark Kent wrote:

Kind of a weird episode. Didn't hate it by any means, some good **** went down. Arya and the Hound are still boss. Tywin, Oberyn, and Tyrion were all tight. Podrick is a true bro. I loved when Tommen said "Wisdom" we see Tywin react like, "Oh thank god, the kid isn't an idiot!" The Wall stuff is getting interesting... Wish we got more than just a taste of the wildling fight. Dany being a bad b****, going all valyrian. She is the Queen of the white knights, that's for sure. Oh, and Littlefinger confirming his involvement and continuing to be the proverbial monkey wrench. But... I had three issues with this episode.

- New Daario is absolute trash. No charm, no charisma, no danger... I don't mind recasting if it has to be done and works. But New Daario is a totally different character... It's like HBO did a focus group and old Daario got ripped to shreds so they made him a pet rock, as inoffensive as possible. They're going to need to recast him... again. This new guy can't hang. He's too soft. Soft looking and soft spoken. The former could be tolerated if the latter wasn't so against what we already know the character to be. By far the worst casting this show has seen. Seriously, **** him...

- Am I the only one who wants to change the channel when Sam and Gilly (individually and/or together) are on screen? Total waste of screen time.

- Feminists are in an uproar over the Jaime "rape" scene. Was that rape? She seemed to be kind of into it at times, despite her protesting... A very weird scene. I'm not really sure what they were trying to accomplish. If it's to turn Jaime "bad" again, that makes no sense... and if it was suppose to be Ceresi trying to deny her true feelings, despite wanting Jaime (she seemed to still be interested when she *****ed out Brienne), than the scene was poorly executed.

That makes it sound like a WWE storyline or something LOL... Jaime and Cersei on any given day aren't even sure what's going to happen with their relationship. I don't know the point of the scene either. If it was to illustrate anybody's conflict of feelings it was probably Jaime's.

Sort of a meh episode, mainly because nearly all of it is invented.

I really hate what they're doing to the Thenns. They aren't supposed to be cannibals. This also ruins a storyline later on, though I'm guessing they aren't going to pursue that now.

Not sure why this last episode provoked this reaction but here it is: I think they have too may story lines going on at once. A truly shocking revelation I know. :lol: But it's as if every episode now becomes snippets of about a dozen or so plot lines. The show is a large city, the story lines are Starbucks.

"Desides wrote:

Sort of a meh episode, mainly because nearly all of it is invented.

I really hate what they're doing to the Thenns. They aren't supposed to be cannibals. This also ruins a storyline later on, though I'm guessing they aren't going to pursue that now.

I didn't know the Thenns weren't meant to be cannibals going by the book, but I quite like that they are. It adds a sense of menace/horror to them, especially in the scene with them raiding the village.

I reckon the show is going to depart from the book storyline more as it goes on, as I've also seen a report today about George RR Martin saying the Cersei/Jaime scene wasn't as he wrote it. I also don't get the feminist anger towards that scene, yes, rape is horrible, but there's been a lot of horrendous things done and shown in the story, so to pick out that as something that shouldn't have been depicted is pretty ridiculous. I bet the feminists angry about that scene didn't complain as much about the Theon/Reek scenes last season.

She wasn't raped. If you pay attention, she gives in.

"Fin D wrote:

She wasn't raped. If you pay attention, she gives in.

They always do Francis...they always do.

"Sethdaddy8 wrote:

They always do Francis...they always do.

If my life were a comic book, you'd be the corrupt cop no one likes.

"Fin D wrote:

If my life were a comic book, you'd be the corrupt cop no one likes.

You expect me to stick my neck out for a measley forty grand a year? While all these scumbags walk away with that in a week? Wake up Francis...the system is broken. Justice is dead.

"Claymore95 wrote:

I didn't know the Thenns weren't meant to be cannibals going by the book, but I quite like that they are. It adds a sense of menace/horror to them, especially in the scene with them raiding the village.

The Thenns are the only wildlings that have a Seven Kingdoms-like social structure. They have a lord, they engage in industry, they have organized succession, and they have defined lands. They were never cannibals.

After Styr dies in the books, his son marries Alys Karstark to create House Thenn. Cannibalism kind of gets in the way of that concept.

"Sethdaddy8 wrote:

You expect me to stick my neck out for a measley forty grand a year? While all these scumbags walk away with that in a week? Wake up Francis...the system is broken. Justice is dead.

...he said while taking the protection money from the strip club owner. He then shifts his hat, downs his shot and slaps a stripper's ass on the way out the door.

"Fin D wrote:

...he said while taking the protection money from the strip club owner. He then shifts his hat, downs his shot and slaps a stripper's ass on the way out the door.

When I said justice was dead...I was indeed, talking about a stripper.

"Desides wrote:

The Thenns are the only wildlings that have a Seven Kingdoms-like social structure. They have a lord, they engage in industry, they have organized succession, and they have defined lands. They were never cannibals.

After Styr dies in the books, his son marries Alys Karstark to create House Thenn. Cannibalism kind of gets in the way of that concept.

Yeah. its a bit weird. Does Mance Rayder allude to hating the Thenn's when he talks to jon about how he united the 9 clans on the show? he mentioned one they all hated.

"Clark Kent wrote:

Yeah. its a bit weird. Does Mance Rayder allude to hating the Thenn's when he talks to jon about how he united the 9 clans on the show? he mentioned one they all hated.

When talking about the effort it took to unify the wildlings, he says that all the wildlings hate the cave people.

The Thenns aren't the cave people.

"Desides wrote:

When talking about the effort it took to unify the wildlings, he says that all the wildlings hate the cave people.

The Thenns aren't the cave people.

Ah, ok. Was wondering if they planned this switch at the start.

The thing with the Thenn's is dumb. lowest common denominator type stuff that's unusual for GOT. Im wondering if they're going to give that storyline away to a more we'll known Wildling?

Owell.

TBH, this show needs to hurry along with the wildlings/wall story. There's an excellent story there and it feels so delayed... i think its kibd of hurting the pacing. Mance Rayder has been in.like, 2 episodes... And I really hope that Stannis's story picks up quick. He's an under valued and under utilized character.

"Clark Kent wrote:

Ah, ok. Was wondering if they planned this switch at the start.

The thing with the Thenn's is dumb. lowest common denominator type stuff that's unusual for GOT. Im wondering if they're going to give that storyline away to a more we'll known Wildling?

Owell.

TBH, this show needs to hurry along with the wildlings/wall story. There's an excellent story there and it feels so delayed... i think its kibd of hurting the pacing. Mance Rayder has been in.like, 2 episodes... And I really hope that Stannis's story picks up quick. He's an under valued and under utilized character.

Expect it to drag out all season. The "let's go after the mutineers in Craster's Keep" stuff is entirely invented just to pad events until episode 10, which is when I'm guessing Stannis the Mannis, First of His Name, the King Who Cared shows up to complete his redemption arc.

It seems like they decided to split AFfC into two seasons. I'm hoping we see Doran Martell, Victarion and Euron Greyjoy, and Wyman Manderly.

If they go through with the Karstark subplot then I'm guessing Alys marries Tormund in the show.

I agree that I would like to see more of the white walkers but Im really digging the dragon mother building her army while the other houses struggle among themselves for control of the throne. Im hoping there is going to comed a oint when there is a 3-way war between them all.

I am also really rooting for the dwarf to wiggle out of his latest predicament. Im hoing in the end its either him, one of the stark kids (including snow) or the mother of dragons who prevail and rule the kingdom.

"Desides wrote:

Expect it to drag out all season. The "let's go after the mutineers in Craster's Keep" stuff is entirely invented just to pad events until episode 10, which is when I'm guessing Stannis the Mannis, First of His Name, the King Who Cared shows up to complete his redemption arc.

It seems like they decided to split AFfC into two seasons. I'm hoping we see Doran Martell, Victarion and Euron Greyjoy, and Wyman Manderly.

If they go through with the Karstark subplot then I'm guessing Alys marries Tormund in the show.

Heavy duty spoiler discussion w/Desides below. Don't click.

I agree they're dragging things the Wall story w/the Mutineers. And it's really hurting Stannis the most, IMO. He's just goofing off doing what we've already seen him do (burn people). Too redundant and a waste of time. He should have set sail at the onset of S4. Nevermind the whole screwup with Stannis not crediting Devos with his speech about showing him the right path, trying to win the Throne by saving his Kingdom rather than the flip side... But that's a topic for another day, I suppose.

Anyway, the mutineer subplot could be interesting and have a nice payoff. The thing with Jon is, he has no reputation. In the books, when Jon is elected Lord Commander, there's a cool little political subplot w/split votes and Sam manipulating events. I really dug that part quite a lot. Excited to see it. As good as the political maneuvering was, Jon becoming LC felt a little rushed given that he hadn't accomplished much in way of reputation among the boys and higher ups. In fact, he hasn't really been around the wall very long at all and should, in some ways, be kind of unknown.

Certainly, going undercover and defending the wall at the end was huge, but the undercover black ops mission didn't involve anyone but him. And Stannis has to be given tons of credit for defeating the wildlings. As much, if not more so than Jon, since his manpower saved the day. The Mutineer plot could be a good opportunity for Jon to lead and demonstrate his value to a larger group in a much more focused environment, with the big battle and duel w/Rayder being the cherry on top that makes him becoming LC, along with the politics, more realised and fleshed out. At the very least, there better be some kind of payoff w/this new storyline. Whether it's a cool sword fight(s), white walkers appearance, etc...

That said, I'm worried at how this season is being structured more so than anything. I think the purple wedding should of been delayed. It happened to quickly w/out the books great buildup. That is the storyline to drag out, IMO, given how much more fun/impactful it would of made Joffrey's death. I suspect that TPTB wanted to give fans some Red Wedding justice asap, to keep them interested. Kind of like Nabo, who said he lost faith after the Lannister's Coup d'etat against Rob.

This season should have lead strong with the Wall given the amount of time we've been waiting for Mance Rayder to launch the attack and all of the plots that need to be resolved. The big battle w/Rayder and co. shouldn't have been saved for episode 9 (which it obviously is). It should take place around episode 4-6, while episode 9 should have been the duel with Oberyn, with the season finale being Tyrion's revenge and subsequent escape to exile w/Vary's explaining things/manipulating his future... Instead, it looks like they went the other way to appease fans for the Red wedding. I think this season will still be great and we'll get great payoffs by the end, but it's not nearly as streamlined as it could be.

"Clark Kent wrote:

Heavy duty spoiler discussion w/Desides below. Don't click.

I agree they're dragging things the Wall story w/the Mutineers. And it's really hurting Stannis the most, IMO. He's just goofing off doing what we've already seen him do (burn people). Too redundant and a waste of time. He should have set sail at the onset of S4. Nevermind the whole screwup with Stannis not crediting Devos with his speech about showing him the right path, trying to win the Throne by saving his Kingdom rather than the flip side... But that's a topic for another day, I suppose.

Anyway, the mutineer subplot could be interesting and have a nice payoff. The thing with Jon is, he has no reputation. In the books, when Jon is elected Lord Commander, there's a cool little political subplot w/split votes and Sam manipulating events. I really dug that part quite a lot. Excited to see it. As good as the political maneuvering was, Jon becoming LC felt a little rushed given that he hadn't accomplished much in way of reputation among the boys and higher ups. In fact, he hasn't really been around the wall very long at all and should, in some ways, be kind of unknown.

Certainly, going undercover and defending the wall at the end was huge, but the undercover black ops mission didn't involve anyone but him. And Stannis has to be given tons of credit for defeating the wildlings. As much, if not more so than Jon, since his manpower saved the day. The Mutineer plot could be a good opportunity for Jon to lead and demonstrate his value to a larger group in a much more focused environment, with the big battle and duel w/Rayder being the cherry on top that makes him becoming LC, along with the politics, more realised and fleshed out. At the very least, there better be some kind of payoff w/this new storyline. Whether it's a cool sword fight(s), white walkers appearance, etc...

That said, I'm worried at how this season is being structured more so than anything. I think the purple wedding should of been delayed. It happened to quickly w/out the books great buildup. That is the storyline to drag out, IMO, given how much more fun/impactful it would of made Joffrey's death. I suspect that TPTB wanted to give fans some Red Wedding justice asap, to keep them interested. Kind of like Nabo, who said he lost faith after the Lannister's Coup d'etat against Rob.

This season should have lead strong with the Wall given the amount of time we've been waiting for Mance Rayder to launch the attack and all of the plots that need to be resolved. The big battle w/Rayder and co. shouldn't have been saved for episode 9 (which it obviously is). It should take place around episode 4-6, while episode 9 should have been the duel with Oberyn, with the season finale being Tyrion's revenge and subsequent escape to exile w/Vary's explaining things/manipulating his future... Instead, it looks like they went the other way to appease fans for the Red wedding. I think this season will still be great and we'll get great payoffs by the end, but it's not nearly as streamlined as it could be.

Jon's qualification is that he's the son of a Stark. That means a lot. He's also been on the wall for three years by that point, and isn't too old, incompetent, or hated. He won the LC job because the other candidates had fatal flaws, not because he was inherently better or more popular.

Season 3 was the Purple Wedding's buildup.

I think Season 4 will still end with Tyrion's revenge and exile.

Question for the book readers. My wife wants the 5 book hardcover set for this series. I've been looking online and I see there are 2 different set of covers. One set that looks old school (Ex: A Game of Thrones is an all gray cover with blue lettering or A game of Thrones has a blue cover with a sword).

Is there any difference between the 2 books or just the cover? The only thing she told me is she doesn't want the ones with the GoT characters on them.

I am mainly asking because on ebay i found the 5 book set with the older looking covers for $90 and for the new covers it costs about $140.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-Song-of-Ice-and-Fire-A-Game-of-Thrones-by-George-RR-Martin-5-NEW-Hardcovers-/151284929787?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item233948d4fb

"Desides wrote:

Jon's qualification is that he's the son of a Stark. That means a lot. He's also been on the wall for three years by that point, and isn't too old, incompetent, or hated. He won the LC job because the other candidates had fatal flaws, not because he was inherently better or more popular.

Season 3 was the Purple Wedding's buildup.

I think Season 4 will still end with Tyrion's revenge and exile.

Season 4's last shot better be Lady Stoneheart. Hopefully we'll get some mention of missing Frey's in Ramsay's or Arya's storylines.

I just want to say "thank you again" to all the book readers for being so good about spoiler tags. It is so very appreciated.