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Gotham TV Series

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by Ray Finkle, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    No you're right about Alfred. I admit I'm a bit biased because I wish I was watching Michael Caine play the character.

    And I agree this show has problems.
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Take it one step further......

    Alfred was in the military and then became a butler. The unifying link between those two professions is taking orders. Alfred clearly gravitates to being submissive, now he's thrust into a role where that need conflicts with being a legal guardian to an underage kid...with issues. He has to be in charge, and I don't think he likes it.

    Also, in the Nolan Batman's, Alfred would scold Bruce on occasion too.

    And really he hasn't been a dick in this show, he freaked out because the kid was standing on the roof's edge of their 4 story mansion and burning himself. That's completely normal for a parental figure.
     
  3. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I think it had more to do with his tone and the anger in his voice towards Bruce that bugged me. Again not disagreeing with anything you said but at a certain point they need to have Alfred act more like a father to Bruce instead of a figure just there to discipline Bruce or the viewer is going to turn on him.

    The reason why I didn't have an issue with Alfred scolding Bruce in Nolan's films is because it was established that he truly cared for Bruce, even before his parents were killed, and thus he always was trying to protect Bruce and even going to the extreme of leaving him because he felt that was the only way he could save him in TDKR. In this series we really haven't seen the bond between them and it seems like Alfred is only there because the parents wanted him to look after Bruce and not because Alfred himself wants to be there.
     
  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Can't the bond grow though? Isn't that the point of the whole show, how everyone grows into the roles we already know?
     
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  5. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yes absolutely.
     
  6. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I haven't seen the show, but one of the many origin stories for the Joker has him being a failed comedian.

    I will keep checking here if the show is worth checking out. The premise seems too, "Remember all the things you liked, here is a show before they existed!"
     
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  7. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Harvey Dent has been cast and will show up in sometime during Season 1.
     
  8. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    In Mooney's club:
    [​IMG]

    Shades of Harley Quinn?
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I hope not. HQ was a psychiatrist that worked with the Joker in Arkham. He basically made her insane. Which is an awesome origin.

    But the chick on the right needs to eat some sandwiches.
     
  10. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I wouldn't be shocked if this series has tons of "easter eggs" or hints at certain people that may or may not turn out to be that character.
     
  11. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Agreed and again this is why I had concerns about this series before it even started because I don't want the writers to change some of the established character's basic backstories unless it truly makes sense for the story, i.e. how Harvey Dent got his scars in TDK.

    Also that I'm not a big fan of Batman's "freak" villains to be established before Batman appears. So by having characters like Harvey Dent in the series that's fine, just don't get too cute with the duel personalities etc so quickly.
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Some origins are lame though. For example, I always thought Joker's was weak. I want them to change the dumb ones, keep the awesome ones, but overall keep the spirit of the character true.

    Having said that, I'm giving the show one more episode so win me over.
     
  13. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    That's why I liked The Joker in TDK so much because we didn't know his origin. It made him that much more mysterious and awesome. For someone like The Joker, that totally works. One day he simply shows up in Gotham and causing chaos and havoc. Perfect.

    I didn't see this week's episode yet. I'll probably give the show at least half a season first. Usually shows start to find itself and get good around episode 7 or 8.
     
  14. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I've been watching it. It's good enough to continue watching it. I am enjoying the evolution of the Penguin character. certainly better than the Danny Devito penguin version. The one I'm not sold on yet is Catwoman (girl).
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think if they stay more true to the comics, then Harvey Dent won't become Two Face until Bruce Wayne becomes Batman.
     
  16. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Right. They absolutely shouldn't turn him into Two Face during this series. FOX might not even have the rights to the "Two Face" character. I know they don't have the rights for "Batman" and there are rumors on whether or not they have the rights to "The Joker" and a few other characters.
     
  17. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've only seen the first two episodes so far and my main question has been "why is alfred such a douche?"
     
  18. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Agreed on Alfred's tone. He went overboard when Bruce was listening in on his convo with Gordon.

    It's just weird when you're used to seeing Michael Caine Alfred.
     
  19. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Haha, yeah that's one of the main complaints about the series so far. While I agree with Fin D on why Alfred is the way he was in the first 2 episodes, they probably could have done a better job showing Alfred is struggling with his new role and/or also he could have shown a little more compassion towards Bruce as this isn't someone he just met, he's known him all his life and should have feelings already developed. Instead the viewer is kind of like "Alfred is a giant jerk" and he comes off poorly.

    I will say in episode 3 Alfred is much much better but I think the writers wrote his character poorly in the first 2 episodes. It was kind of surprising to see that from him though.
     
  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    According to Fox chairman Kevin Reilly, they have all the rights to batman on TV.
     
  21. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    That's interesting. I mean Reilly would know obviously but you'd think if they had rights to actually use the Batman character they would, no? I get that this show is suppose to be about Gordon's rise but why not making it about Bruce growing up being Batman ala Smallville and have the whole show focus just on him.

    I will be honest, I've never seen Smallville but heard a lot of the fanboys complaints was that Clark didn't become Superman and wear the suit until the last season/last episode and remember it was because WB wouldn't let the series use the Superman character because it was protecting it for movies. Again not sure if that's actually true or not but would make sense and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the same deal the WB and FOX cut for this series too.
     
  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I agree with everything you are saying. It makes me wonder why the show exists. I am waiting for rave reviews. So far I have heard that Alfred is a jerk and it is not boring.

    It is missing the hook that would get me excited. Arrow got me when I was randomly wasting my life on youtube and I noticed there is a Deathstroke trailer for the show, I watched it and IT WAS FREAKING AWESOME! Then I learned that Captain Jack Hartness was on the show and I had to check it out. Now I love its goofy fun and its serious/dark/campy take on super heroes. It is like Xena with DC superheroes, better writing and production values.

    However so far I heard Gotham is like a dark version of Law and Order. And there is no hook other than, "Lets see these characters before they were awesome." Almost like that Patton Oswalt rant against the prequels.

    I feel like I am saying the same thing over and over again, however I don't get who was the ad wizard who thought up that one.
     
  23. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    No you're pretty much spot on with Gotham. It's not a great show, it's not a boring show, it's just kind of there. It could absolutely get better but I could also see it just kind of staying the same. I do think the problem with the show is there's at least a 10 year gap between when the show takes place and when Bruce becomes Batman. That's an awful lot of time to cover and I can absolutely see the average fan getting bored and restless with the series if we don't see some of these pre-villains becoming the villains we all know from the comics/movies.

    I stopped watching Arrow around the 8th or 9th episode of season 1 because I was bored with the whole layout of the show but have heard it got really good, so I'm holding out hope the same will happen with Gotham once the writers get comfortable.
     
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Gotham's main problem is the writing is horrible and trite. I wish the writing was as good as a Law & Order series, but its more like CSI: Miami bad.

    Like in the balloon episode, I don't think its crazy for a bad guy in the batman universe to kill people by attaching them to weather balloons. I hated that the first guy he killed was an evil banker and to get the point home he was an evil banker they had him on the phone for a second basically saying something that felt like, "I don't care what you have to do, but burn the orphanage to the ground!!!!", and slams the phone down. It was just so trite and stupid.

    The Penguin is at an intersection and looks around and there's like 4 different crimes happening all at once and he says, 'Ahhh, I'm home.", while smiling. So entirely ham handed. This show has all the subtlety of a sledge hammer. It feels like the y wanted to try an marry Nolan's visual aesthetic with Schumaker's dialogue.
     
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  25. Pagan

    Pagan Metal & a Mustang

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    I have no problem with Alfred. The problem I have is the Penguin. Oswald Cobblepot is supposed to be short and overweight, and comes from an upper class family that he becomes ostracized from, resulting in him turning to crime.

    In this version he's a tall, lanky two-bit hood. I'll all for tweaking characters (Bane, Joker, etc.) but this is just a complete re-write.
     
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  26. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod

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    That's my biggest problem so far, too. Visually it wants to look like Nolan's films. Tonally it seems to just be over-the-top and campy. They end up not really mixing and become really disjointed. The show looks like it should be set in the 70s (and acts like it most of the time), but the main characters have cell phones and technology. It's just all over the board. I agree with you whole-heartedly on the subtlety - it's just not there, with anything. Perhaps the worstly-written character is poor Bette Kane, who somehow never leaves her apartment, ever, and is both a (former?) closet lesbian and (recovering?) drug addict. Sigh.

    Don't get me started on the "villains" that have shown up - they are essentially badly done and laughable Batman villains. Maybe that's the point. The actual Batman villains seem to be completely over the top, too. (How many people has Oswald randomly murdered in broad daylight now? 5? 6?)

    My biggest fear is that this devolves into a boring police procedural set in Gotham city, which seems to be the direction that they are heading. I'm holding out hope for an "Arrow"-like course-correction where they move the focus away from villains of the week and more into the gang war conflict. I've enjoyed Jada Pinkett-Smith but they need to get her out of the club and into the action. John Doman is also very capable so hopefully they will give Falcone a little bit more of an expanded role.
     
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  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    WADR, I don't know how you've enjoyed Jada in this show. She is by far the worst actor on the show. If she snarls and over acts her lines one more time I'm gonna scream.
     
  28. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Finally got around to seeing last Monday's episode. Yeah Jada Pinkett Smith has to go, just really not interested in her character. I didn't think the episode itself was bad, it thought it was fine. That's pretty much how I feel about the series so far, it's fine.
     
  29. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Gotham has just been picked up for a full season, meaning 22 to 24 episodes even though Kevin Reilly and the creative team said wouldn't happen as they wanted the season to be 15 to 16 episodes. So should be interesting to see how they fill those extra episodes.
     
  30. dolphinkev

    dolphinkev Active Member

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    Seems like the show took a Upswing last night, best episode so far.
     
  31. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    last night was better. Penguin's character is taking form, moving beyond the sniveling fool to someone who actually has quite a bit of guile.
     
  32. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Last week's episode was probably the best of the series so far but there is still a lot of WTF scenes like when Zsasz goes to the police station and orders every cop to leave and they do. I get that Gotham is suppose to be corrupt and run by the mob but come on. Like how much worse can Gotham get in the next 10 plus years to make Bruce want to be Batman.
     
  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    This show didn't feel like a part of Nolan's universe or the Animated Series universe or anything good like those. It feels like the gritty reboot of the stupid 60s series or Shumaker's abortions.
     
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  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    man would it be so boring if it was in the Nolan universe. So much talk, talk talk. I would love the episode where Penguin talks for 20 minutes about the nature of evil. Of course it couldn't be in the Nolan universe because Gordon would have quit by now.

    Joking aside, I took sometime over the break to watch this show and I love it. It is so bad and takes itself so serious that it makes it so much fun. It is like watching Hercules or Xena if they took them really seriously.

    In fact, it is a lot like a grittier version of the 60s TV show. That is why I am enjoying it so much. Each episode is so much fun. It is so silly. Why does young Kat woman act like a Kat? Why does she know poison ivy as a kid? So it is now Catwoman who taught Bruce Wayne how to balance on rails and run through the city? How legal is a will that states that a 12 year old gets to make all of his life decisions? It is hard to imagine a city that corrupt.

    It is like a crime drama where everything about it is really silly. They might as well called it Law and Order: Gotham or CSI: Gotham.

    The only thing I absolutely hate is the Barbara character. I don't understand why he is dating a Barbara. Do they get married and name their child Barbara? Does she die and his new wife is like, 'sure, we can name our daughter after your ex-girlfriend'? Plus she is freaking annoying. I hate female characters like her who are so dumb.

    I am having fun with it. I wouldn't call it good. I wouldn't call it quality. It is the perfect combination of someone trying to make something good, but making a trainwreck that makes it so much fun to watch.
     
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  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I've never been a person that liked a movie or TV because it was so bad. Sharknado & CSI: Miami are not for me.

    I find myself wishing Agents of Shield was better, but at least its not comically bad like Gotham. However, did you see Agent Carter?
     
  36. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    I haven't seen Gotham yet as I'm holding out until the reviews of the show get better. Have them on DVR but haven't indulged in it yet. Anyway, Barbara is the name of Gordon's wife in Frank Miller's comics about Batman so I think that's what they're basing her on.
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I did not know that. Thanks, I was confused.
     
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  38. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Believe me I was too when I first read Year One.
     
  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I can understand that. It is not for everyone.

    I like Agents of Shield. I think it is a good show with good characters.

    I just finished watching Agent Carter. I really liked it. It was fun. It made me laugh and it was exciting. Very solid show.
     
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  40. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    I'm gonna be real with you, Agent Carter's my jam so far.
     
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