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Grading the CFL to NFL signees

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by padre31, Feb 13, 2010.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    What do these names have in common:

    Complete list:

    8 of those players wound up on 2009 playoff teams.

    Larry Taylor, Dimitri Tsoumpas, Stevie Baggs, Jonathon Hefney, John Chick, Martell Mallet were all CFL all stars and Ricky Foley was the MVP among Canadians or 7 of the 18 players that were signed were the upper echelon of the the CFL.


    Aside from all being succssful CFL players, they also are going to teams that are in the "Top 8", at least some of the good ones are:

    John Chick-CFL DPOY-Colts, they cannot sign FA's unless they lose a UFA and even then, the contract must be for less than 4.95 million or so, the Colts Bill Pollian imho is the best GM in the NFL for finding gems and turning them into starters, Chick had washed out with the Texans in 06, went the CFL and remade himself.

    The Colts have added 3 CFLers, in Chick, Giguere and Dudley Guice.

    Larry Taylor-Jets-CFL Special Teams all star for two years in a row, the Jets are in that T8 group that have to scrounge around for talent especially with L Washington's broken leg.

    Skyler Greene-one time Ireland draftee in Dallas he also returns kicks.

    Bo Smith-he never stood out to me while watching the CFL games this year.

    Dolphins-signed three players,after last yr's Cam Wake and T George, this year Tsoumpas, Ryan Mullens and Rory Lumbala.

    Steelers-hit a home run with Stefan Logan last season, he set a Steelers all time return yardage record, he is supposedly not as fast as Ryan Grice Mullens, Renauld Williams will take a shot at being Lb depth, Derrick Dogget is a undersized Lb who really doesn't have a role, but the Steelers are one of the best run franchises in the NFL, if he has the talent to stick they will find a job for him to do, it wouldn't surprise to see him at Free Safety in the preseason.

    Cardinals-Stevie Baggs, he was John Chick's running mate for the Sk Roughriders, reminds a bit of Austen Lane/Brandon Lang, a tall athlete who moves well.

    Seahawks-Pete Carrol signed two CFLers, McDonald a long snapper and Ricky Foley who tied for the CFL lead in sacks with 12 and was voted the most outstanding Canadian, Foley, who I've followed, was used more like a traditional NFL OLB, they ran stunts with him and dropped him back into coverage, he is a good athlete who should make an impact on Special Teams at the least.

    Lions-John Hefney, he played well as a rookie Cb in the CFL, he lacks size but has good quickness with the depleted Lions Db's he has a good shot of sticking on a NFL roster.

    Eagles-Martell Mallet-ROY type, nice speed, nice hands, but his straight up and down running style may not last very long in the NFL.



    Grades:

    Colts-A-Chick is a good NFL prospect and Guice and Giguere give the Colts good depth at Wr, Giguere in particular is immensely physically talented with a top vertical leap at the 08 Combine

    Jets-B-Painful to say, but the two themes that dominate the new CFL to NFL jumpers are "Cameron Wake and Stefan Logan" there are no Wake's this year, but Larry Taylor is every bit the kick returner that Stefan Logan is.

    Dolphins-B minus-Dimitri Tsoumpas was a Day 1 starter in the CFL, but CFL to NFL jumps by Olinemen are rare, Ryan Grice Mullens has 4.36 speed, but inconsistent hands as a WR, Lumbala could be camp fodder, he has a nice frame at 6'2, but Lou Polite is a All Pro caliber FB and Lumbala is no Mike Sellers in the blocking dept or in the knowledge of offenses dept, at least so far, otherwise he could be a nice HBack type.

    Seahawks-B-Ricky Foley fielded offers from the Rams and Eagles but chose Seattle a college decathlete he was a threat to win shotput events while at York and he ran a 4.53 40, at worst Pete Caroll added a experienced Special Teams player at best he landed a nice situational passrusher for a relatively inexpensive CFL sized signing bonus. Longsnapper McDonald has to win a job.

    Cardinals-C-Stevie Baggs has to convert to OLB which places a large roadblock in his road to being a rotational player, interestingly enough, the Cards place a value on Special Teams players so he will at least get a serious look in Traning Camp.

    Best of the Rest-Titus Ryan has plenty of speed but will need a lights out Camp to make the Cowboys roster, the Jags are set at DT so Curry will also need help, Dogget and Williams could be camp bodies at best, and Medlock will compete for the Kicking job in DC.

    There are no Cameron Wake's this year, Baggs could be something, Ricky Foley could be a David Bowens type of OLB/ST player but the real action is at KR, Taylor, Green, Grice Mullens, Titus Ryan, any one of those players could be appearing on ESPN highlights in 2010.

    Martell Mallet is a sleeper, if he had went to a different team than the Eagles that is, where McCoy will be the lead back in the rotation, Mallet has long odds at making the team and seeing playing time.
     
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  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    For fun, here are some of the si.com scouting reports on some of those players:

    http://images.si.com/football/2006/draft/players/48007.html

    John Chick also ran a 4.61 40:

    Grice Mullen:

    Clearly before he ran a 4.36 40..

    Sam Giguere:

    http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/ChicagoSportsFan/tag/CFL
     
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He also had a 41 inch vertical leap:


    http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/pdleaders.php?draftyear=2008

    Interestingly enough, Grice Mullen had the 6th fastest 10yd time at 1.45
     
  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sounds like the Colts got a player in Sam Giguere. Don't know how he's going to get some PT though, with Gonzalez, Garcon, Collie and Wayne on the roster.
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That is the beauty of signing CFLers rafie, they can be placed on the practice squad for 2 yrs and there is not much of a chance they are poached by another team.

    At worst he is a camp body with upside, at best he can fillin and play at a high level physically.

    And John Chick had the measurables to be drafted and make a team with a 4.61 40, however he was to raw, two years in the CFL and he has gained enough experience to refine his skills.

    That cat is going to be a good player in the NFL, Bill Polian is doing a really great job stocking the groceries in Indy, Ireland is doing good, not great, Wake counts for alot, and Ryan Grice Mullen really could come on this year returning kicks.
     
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  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    [​IMG]

    I see what the scout meant when he said his crap hus muscles. I think Giguere could see playing time next season if he can beat out Hank Basket.
     
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  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The reason why I gave Ireland a B is because a Olineman making the ju mp from the CFL to the NFL is rare...incredibly rare, Dimitri Tsoumpas will be the first CFLer to try to do it in years maybe since Mark Dixon did it for the Phins over 10yrs ago.

    [​IMG]

    A nice story about Tsoumpas's training regime prior to going #3 in the CFL draft:

    http://conditioningforoptimumresults.blogspot.com/2008/11/congratulations-to-dimitri-tsoumpas.html

    That leaves BGM and Rolly Lumbala, and RGM can/may stick as a kick returner, but Lumbala is stuck behind Lou Polite.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I can really see RGM push Ted Ginn Jr for the KR duties. If anything, he will make TGJ earn a spot on the roster.
     
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Maybe...:lol:

    RGM is the anti Ted Ginn, were Teddy goes down quicker than a prom..err...he avoids contact..RGM is fearless..he will run the ball up into the pile to try and break something.

    As Wr though..not so much, RGM's hands are more Ginn than Camarillo's.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_laKyar1Uc&feature=SeriesPlayList&p=59339C0F883D6C2D"]YouTube- CFL BC 18, Calgary 27 - September 25, 2009[/ame]

    RGM takes the opening kickoff

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9NN1hy-kUs"]YouTube- Ryan Grice-Mullen Sets CFL Playoff Record[/ame]
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    RGM reminds of Bess, but with more speed. It has to be the hair.
     
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  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly, but Bess is thicker from 2 yrs in the NFL and has better hands.

    Here are some higlights of Dimitri Tsoumpas (#67 for Calgary) and John Chick (#97 in green):

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoX6sEKCJlQ"]YouTube- Calgary Stampeders @ Saskatchewan Roughriders Highlights, Nov. 7/09[/ame]

    Tsoumpas blocks two men down at the goaline for the TD at 1:40 or so.

    John Chick just beasts the Calgary tackle for the sack strip at 3:48 or so.

    Some more Rory Lumbala at 1:55

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7CiwkZlXpw&feature=PlayList&p=59339C0F883D6C2D&index=24"]YouTube- CFL BC 36, Toronto 28 - August 14, 2009[/ame]

    And RGM with one heck of a nice punt return at 3:47

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0vz6a9NbTo&feature=PlayList&p=59339C0F883D6C2D&index=40"]YouTube- CFL Toronto 17, BC 23 - September 19, 2008[/ame]

    And at 1:56 here, watch him lower his shoulder and hit the tackler to pick up an extra yard or so, Ted Ginn never does this:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6GjVwhlgbI"]YouTube- CFL Calgary 28, B.C. 26 - October 31, 2009[/ame]

    And at 1:15 or so on this one, RGM runs the end around at the goaline:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiQU4e-2YQ8"]YouTube- CFL BC 18, Hamilton 30 - July 31, 2009[/ame]
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    From what I've seen of RGM, I like. He is always looking to pick up extra yards. Instead of running out of bounds, you see him cutting the ball inside for the extra yards.
     
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  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly, that is why he is the Anti Ted Ginn, and a part of the reason "why" Imho he could do something for the Dolphins in 2010 on kick returns. And he runs the same way on punt returns.

    He ran a 4.36 at the Combine and has had two years in the CFL to get himself straightened out.

    John Chick was sort of Cam Wake of the 09 CFL season:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycqpFNuAC7o"]YouTube- John Chick 2009 Labour Day: Pass knockdown, 2 sacks, goal line stuff[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATWWYs-X1OU"]YouTube- John Chick sack, forced fumble and recovery against Hamilton[/ame]

    Imho he'll stick in the NFL because he has learned how to use leverage to move people.
     
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  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'll probably regret this as it is positive for the Jets guy

    This cat is a part of the reason why the Jest did well with CFL signees:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l74lOaZJ5Ls"]YouTube- Larry Taylor #24[/ame]

    Dude is a sick sick return man, quick more than fast, some of the stuff he did in college and the CFL won't work in the NFL but still, he does have alot of talent.

    And one retraction, "SJ Green" is not "Skyler Green" he is an ex USF player who more than likely several forum members have watched play, Skyler Green the ex Dallas player is in the CFL but plays for Edmonton.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaH2EOVXJgs"]YouTube- #81 - SJ Green -WR[/ame]
     
  15. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And here is the third Colts signing from the CFL Dudley Guice:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LokDWMKRb9s"]YouTube- Dudley Guice - Tennessee Titans - Draft Video Profile[/ame]

    The Draft Guys did a video scouting report on him basically because he ran a 4.39 and 4.4 at his pro day workouts.

    So the Colts picked up two large, physically gifted athletes in Geguire and Guice to act as depth as well as the CFL DPOY, Bill Polian appears to know what he is doing with these guys and that is why the Colts receive an A grade for sifting some prospects from the Great White North.
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And not all of the NFL caliber talent has left the CFL for the NFL, 2007's largest draft collapse, Adarius Bowman resurrected his football career in the Great White North:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MdLWbzBw1Q"]YouTube- Adarius Bowman Highlights[/ame]

    From being kicked out of UNC for mj charges that were later dropped, to Lasik surgery, Bowman makes for an interesting story:

    http://warroomreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=187&Itemid=1

    Bowman sounds like one of those players who the NFL talent evaluation system chewed up and spat out which of course makes him a great target for a team that needs a big Wr..if not this year, then in 2011.
     
  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Here is Derrick Dogget's role on the Steelers:

    http://www.steelersgab.com/2010/01/19/steelers-ink-cfl-special-teams-ace-derrick-doggett/

    27 tackles on ST? The NFL leader, Chicago's Tim Shaw had 21.

    Having Woodley and Harrison locked in as starting OLB's makes a hole for a Special Teamer, Dogget was a OSU Beaver.

    http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=15363&draftyear=2008&genpos=SS
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Eh, Ill just make this thread the all in one CFL to NFL thread.

    http://www.thespec.com/article/706174

    Richard Wade scouted, worked out, and signed Chris Wilson and Cam Wake two players who made the jump from the CFL to the NFL successfully, he is sort of a CFL scout/guru who has the eye for talent and he has a great point, it is hard to convince American College Football players to give the CFL a try, but as there is more CFL to NFL cross pollination the CFL can attract those better, more gifted players to give the CFL a shot

    The CFL won't make any player wealthy, the #3 overall pick in 2009, Jamall Lee took a shot at the NFL as an UDFA in Carolina last preseason because even if he made the practice squad, his salary would be 5k a week, in the CFL he entire salary would have been 50,000..Canadian Dollars.

    But that is sort of what makes the CFL fun imho, these guys love to play football the money is good, but for a 18 game season it really doesn't pay that well.

    The latest nugget on CFL DPOY and Colts signee John Chick, he had as many reps at 225 as Dimitri Tsoumpas at the 06 NFL Combine...30 reps at 6'6, that dude is strong as an ox and ran a 4.61...the colts got a gem imho.
     
  19. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Stevie Baggs signed with the Cardinals and they run a 3-4, but he is a decent enough prospect with a bit of a burst, more of one than last season's Terrious George:

    Short version:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sq5X4yFUrw"]YouTube- Saskatchewan Roughriders Stevie Baggs highlights - November 22, 2009 West Final vs. Calgary[/ame]

    Long version (eegads bring on the NFL preseason..please?)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNj93ZUeLi8"]YouTube- Stevie Baggs & Hyped Up[/ame]

    Fast forward to the 50 second mark,
     
  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    As for Dolphins specific information, this is a little nugget:

    That could explain why they signed Dimitri Tsoumpas, if the interior Oline talent is subpar in this draft then it makes sense to choose who to bring into camp if the Scouts and GM like their game, that is where Tsoumpas comes into play.

    He has played 84 games in the College and in the CFL, chances are good he is a polished Guard who has nice size and strength and comes as cheaply as a 5th rd draft pick in a signing bonus sense.
     
  21. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Where did you get that number for RGM and his 40 yard time?
    2008 combine numbers

    Ryan Grice~Mullen Hawaii 5~10 187
    4.53 40 yard time
    2.58 20 yard time
    1.55 10 yard time
    17 bench presses
    27.5 verticle...very poor
    broad jump 9'10''
    Shuttle 4.16 seconds
    3 cone 6.91 seconds

    4.36 and 4.53 are quite a bit different

    http://www.mattrauch.com/2008-nfl-combine-results.php
     
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  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Glad you asked:

    http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/pdleaders.php?draftyear=2008


    Right behind Donnie Avery's 4.35 and he had 10.2 long jump.

    The really interesting thing is most of the really fast players, are long gone or never made a roster in the NFL.

    And never knew Chaz Schillens ran a 4.38.

    And Lumbala is in there, he ran a 4.82 but he was 254, Hilliard is there as well but he ran a 4.66 at 231 so a lighter Lumbala is more than likely much quicker than he was in 08.
     
  23. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    The asterisk next to RGM name means the number you believe was a combine number was actually his pro day workout which was 2/10 of a second faster than the electronic timed 40 of the combine.
    4.53 40 yard combine time
    4.36 pro day time

    The same goes for his 10 yard split...1.55 combine versus 1.45 pro day

    I'll stick with electronic combine results versus hand held pro day times
     
  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Stick to what one will, there are also the linked in videos on page 1, they speak for themselves and Ginn and Revis are on that list with about the same times yet in the NFL, on the field, their speed translates well, there is no objective reason to suppose RGM's would not either.
     
  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    A bit on Dimitri Tsoumpas, he sounds like a really humble fellow:

    http://www.canada.com/sports/Stampeder+Tsoumpas+signs+with+Dolphins/2426860/story.html
     
  26. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    My point being you said he ran a 4.36 40 at the combine and that's NOT true

    He ran a 4.53 time at the combine

    You can link whatever you want and compare to whoever you want...point is you made a mistake saying
    his 4.36 time was from the combine when it was not
     
  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Eh, either way, 4.36 is exactly that, there is film, make up your own mind.

    I will say that for whatever reason, CFL to NFL players tend to be downgraded for whatever reason, for me, the film doesn't lie. CK has a method for calculating on field speed which unfortunately I do not know otherwise I'd post the unvarnished fact of the matter.

    'Cause whether he ran a 4.36 at his pro day, or 4.53 at the combine, on the field is the final judge of the matter...agreed?
     
  28. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    For me electronic timing at the combine doesn't lie
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Neither does it tell the whole truth.
     
  30. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    With the Combine upcoming the Draft Forum will sure to be alive with the next wave of prospects, and the CFLers who are NFL prospects have latched unto a team or they will have been resigned in the CFL starting at 12:01 tonight so this advice by Evan Silva seems timely:

    Which has proven true, if a player is not kicking butt in the CFL, or at the small college lever, 99% of the time they will not in the NFL either.

    For thephins, Dimitri Tsoumpas fits that bill, Ryan Grice Mullens did as well..at times..Rory Lumbala's 21 reps at the combine do not speak well of his chances of sticking with the Dolphins, the FB and HBack position demands strength and power and he either has learned his lesson from leaving Dolphins Camp 2008, or he will be gone with the first round of cuts.

    Been fun, as minicamp rolls around these players will have the opportunities to shine, that is what happened with Stefan Logan and Cam Wake, when the CFL to NFL players make some noise I'll add more info.
     
  31. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Neither do you when you say RGM ran a 4.36 40 at the combine
     
  32. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He did run a 4.36 at his proday, faster than Ginn's proday, faster than Revis's pro day as well.

    And BTW, do you agree that time on the field is what matters?

    If so, then great, I'll try to find the formula for calculating on the field speed, if not, then not.
     
  33. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, practice rosters are now set:

     
  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    http://communities.canada.com/theprovince/blogs/fifthquarter/default.aspx

    Hold the phone Ethel..we do have one slot left...come on Rolly!
     

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