Thanks for the link. A good and fair read. However, while I don't think that the article is unfair to Tannehill, per se, this quote grinds my gears:

Why? Why does Griffin get a pass from everyone in the media at all times? Forgetting the running, which will only continue to get him hurt and result in turnovers, what has he done as a passer that makes him such a sure thing? I've not seen anything, in the NFL or college, that makes me think highly of him, let alone think of him as if he's close to a sure thing, like Luck is. I just don't get it. I'm much happier with Tannehill than I would have been with Griffin.

 

RG3 had a passer rating that we would murder small villages for Tanny to have.

 

Nice read. Lots of things we've all been saying on here about Sherman's shortcomings and Tannehill needing to take it upon himself to engage that athletic ability.

The passing chart at the bottom is interesting and potentially the most troubling part. He was very good at slinging it to guys who ran curls/comebacks/hitches/outs on the perimeter. Even though those plays look good because they're usually into small windows, many of them are when guys are squaring up to the QB which reduces your yac yardage and ypa pretty quick. When it comes to hitting big plays down the middle with anticipation, hitting guys in stride as they move vertically or into space...he was not good.

The middle of the field is where you get those quick strikes on a rope for chunk yardage. We didn't do any of that last year even though we have the weapons. Maybe the problem over the middle was largely Sherman's offense, and I suspect it was a part. But we'll see.

 

Fixed that for ya :wink2:

 

Barnwell is off and on for me, but I thought this article was very fairly written. My issues with Tannehill are addressed in the article at some point.

One thing I believe he missed with the opportunity for PA. He crossed it superficially with the mention a strong running game will help. However, I think the middle of the field will open up a little more with additional PA passes called. If we can add an average/above average running game to the mix, that will help a lot.

Tannehill has his short-coming's, but the play of other units could help him out.

 

RGIII is a product of the pistol offense and athleticism. Without it he's forced to be a real NFL QB. Dropping back and forced to throw into various coverages. That didn't workout so well for him. He has just as much to prove as any young QB going forward.

 

Harsh:

 

Listened to the espn football today podcast from a couple days back and they were discussing Andy Dalton. They asked if they'd seen his ceiling and the consensus was probably yes, I look at Tannehill and I still think there is much more to come. This year is gonna be a biggie!

 

In 2012.

To be fair, we've seen QBs jump up and have higher passer ratings before in one year never to repeat the success. Daunte Culpepper, Brian Griese, Josh Freeman come to mind. Now that I think about it, Griese did it in the very same offense.

 

I do not think they did a good job at justifying this statement. For one, what are they basing progress against?

Plus their examples were very ticky tacky. How can you hold on the ball too long if you are sacked before you have a chance to look at your second read?

 

One of the most impressive things about Kelly's offense in Philly was how easy the QB decisions were. As much as I like Foles, I do think he had an easier job than most any NFL QB last year. Kelly just did a great job of providing simple reads and simple throws. And obviously McCoy was awesome, but IMO just having a run threat is one of the biggest factors. That run threat comes from attempts using both the backs and the QB in the zone read. Third, moving the pocket not only plays into RT's strengths, but also protects the OL. If Lazor can incorporate those three things (easier reads/throws, increased run attempts and more outside the pocket plays) then I believe that RT will have a big season.

 

With 48 total starts at QB (including college) Tannehill has 10 more total starts than the golden boy Andrew Luck did coming into the NFL. He evolved quite a bit last year despite the on and off the field turmoil. The arrow is definitely pointing up.

 

This is the first time we'll see Tanny uncoupled from Sherm.

I'll suspend judgement til then but my gut says Tanny is an above average, not great, QB who will have the occasional great game and maybe even a Pro Bowl year sometime. You can win a Superbowl with a guy like that if everything else goes right.

 

I see that as his floor in terms of potential. In fact, I believe that if he didn't progress any further that he would be a Flacco level QB. The kind you could win a SB with as long as the rest of the team was good enough. But in a system that actually used his strengths, play action and movement skills he could produce like an Aaron Rodgers. That's a guy that can carry the team. And I don't even see being able to carry the team as a stretch since he did that for several stretches last season.

 

Agreed. I'm like, wuuut?

In his terrible 2nd year he had a Tanny esque QBR Lol

 

Well Philbin keeps reiterating the three things he wants in his Qb, and playmaking ability is firmly entrenched on that list.

I can honestly say that Ryan has not succeeded in that dept at all for two strait seasons..this instinct, the ability to recognize where the rush is coming from and have the quickness in his body to escape and make a play has not been there til this point, , we can blame Sherman for neutering him, look to the pathetic oline and run game, and those are legit excuses, but this is our reality thus far, and is the most pivitol aspect of his game that will determine whether he has championship qualities..he's got to play free now..

I have no doubt that he will improve his stats this year, but when it comes playoff time, does he have the instinct and quickness to make the plays under pressure..that's my #1 concern.

 

edit: oops

 

Garbage time stats. Griffin threw 8/16 TD's when games were out of reach. He racked up the yardage too. This was a pretty big story throughout the season.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrifRo01/touchdowns/passing/

 

This is where we all should have legitimate hope, we literally have not seen our Qb play to his strengths...and those strengths are throwing on the run, to both sides, and running the read option..incorporate those two aspects, with his accuracy from the pocket, and we should be good enough to win more games than last..the playmaking part is on Tannehill though, that's how you Get over the hump in the big games..

 

wonder why the article left Eli Manning off the list, maybe because his numbers don't jive with the theory. Manning's numbers his first 3-4 years were no better than what Tannehill did last season. He evolved further and won 2 superbowls.

 

The author calls Clabo "arguably the worst pass blocker in football" last season. I don't see how that is arguable. Maybe the point is arguable because in order to give him that title, you have to call him a pass blocker?

 

He was pretty average after like week 7-8 IMO.

 

Clabo got his act together midway through the season, i wouldn´t call him that

 

Fair, except I don't recall seeing any QB have certain throws he was GREAT at and others he was NOT good at in college radically alter in the pro's. In his college film it was very very clear Ryan is comfortable zipping the ball on a rope to line-of-sight guys on outs and curls, but he is NOT certain of himself on throws over the seam or deep over the top unless they are WIDE open (not something you can rely on in the NFL) and even then, by the time a guy is WIDE open deep and he sees that, the guy is out of arm range a lot of the time or the safety is already reacting.

When a guy has a predicposition, it's hard to change. Especially when part of it is mental, as it is in this case, imo.

Will Ryan improve at those throws? Maybe. Will he ever be as good at those throws as his out-patterns. I would be shocked.

Which means I expect him to become a QB who throws great to the perimeter and maybe above average in other areas. That's not a top 5 QB.


--- The caveat is Sherman <> Lazor

 

I'd like to see the breakdown by quarter for Clabo compared to other RTs. It sure felt like he was okay up until the 4th quarter and then he turned into a turnstile.

 

I'd like to see the breakdown by quarter for Clabo compared to other RTs. It sure felt like he was okay up until the 4th quarter and then he turned into a turnstile.

 

I disagree. A QB who is great in some areas and above average most everywhere else is probably a HOF QB. All QBs, even the great ones, have weaknesses. As for RT's, they seem to be generally experience based. That's generally the case with middle of the field reads. There are only so many coverage variations downfield. Eventually you've seen them all enough times that they become easy. I think of a guy like Testeverde who sucked at those throws b/c he was dumb as a box of rocks. Eventually even he became known as a savvy veteran who made good middle of the field reads. (Although I don't agree that Tannehill struggles with seam throw. He completed several nice seam throws to Clay and Matthews last season). The kinds of throws that QBs don't generally improve are the ones on the perimeter.

 

Agree that Tannehill can and has executed beautiful seam throws. He is capable of it. But he hesitates, to my eye, and that's a mental thing. He doesn't take those shots as consistently nor confidently as his outside throws.

I agree that those laser outs are either something you can do, or can't, generally. He has that zip on the ball that gets you excited. But where is that level of conviction on other parts of the field?

Yes, I agree it's all about his confidence throwing into coverage. You're more convinced of the potential that will change than I am. I think we are seeing gradual, moderate improvement in those areas. But things like Bill Lazor trying a concept that leads to a bunch of Ryan INTs and then scrapping the idea tells me there are still some limitations. Laor wouldn't have tried it if it were an obviously impossible thing for a QB to execute. He also wouldn't have abandoned it if Tannehill were making the normal amount of mistakes for a QB normally learning the concept. Lazor clearly felt this was not going to be a good idea for Tanny to attempt to execute. I think it's yet another (admittedly weak) piece of circumstancial evidence that suggests Tannehill has some issues with the mental part of coverages, routes, timing and throwing where and when he needs to even if his eyes do not see the receiver open.


Tannehill's biggest problem, imo, is that he plays like still watches the receivers to see if they are open instead of watching the COVERAGE and KNOWING the receiver will be open!

 

My impressions are, RT reads DBs well, throws intmed passes well, plays with good timing rhythm, and can take a hit and protect the ball. He does not read the front 7 well, or throw deep, I'd say he does that poorly.

Needs to develop full sense of defense rather than partial to run, or escape pressure, and keep god timing and rhythm. this may have to do with his vision, focus, late develpment as a qb. For now he is just a passer, not a full QB. But he is a very good passer and if he can add the deep ball he can become an excellent, elite passer.

 

I never reached that conclusion. IMO there are many possible reasons for trying a concept and scrapping it. Tannehill having passing limitations is far from the most likely IMO.

As for the "knowing when the receiver will be open" (I've always referred to that as "anticipation"), I think you're greatly over-estimating how common that is in a young QB. Marino didn't even do that for about the first 5 years. For more recent examples, I've never seen CKap do it. And I don't believe I've ever seen Wilson do it either. You do see Brees and Rodgers do it. That's an experience thing. You generally don't see that until a QB has been in the same system 3+ years. Before that you'll see a QB do it once in a while, but most of the time he'll trust his eyes over the system.

 

This is definitely where we are at, but it raises a question Raf.

Since this is Tannehill's third year, but it's under a new O.C. do you expect it to take 3 more years for this to happen for Ryan?

 

Btw, Rafael, you have the best way of disagreeing with someone without invalidating them that I've ever seen on these boards.

Good stuff!

 

ball sucking.

 

I also agree with you on the seam stuff, I actually think it's one of his best throws, he just hasn't had a target capable of running the correct routes..

 

What? Go watch the tape. He was awful the first half of the season then average the second half.

 

Besides what I've talked about in terms of pressure anticipation, escapability, I want to see more quickness in his body as it relates to his timing..play speed In motion needs to speed up.

 

Which comes from getting out of your head, thinking less and trusting your instincts more.

So hopefully the coach has some psychological tricks to help Tanny with that part.

Which reminds me, I wish Zac Taylor had left with Sherman. Tannehill needs and deserves a top-notch QB coach to help him develop. Not Sherm's son-in-law who was with Tanny at Texas A&M. Now maybe Zac is good, and they don't wanna ruin the rapport Tanny already has with his QB coach but honestly I'd think it's more likely Sherm asked for Joe to keep Zac as a concession. "Well if you fire me, at least let Zac stay."

 

Well...that will either change..or he wont last long in Lazors offense. But..from what Ive seen in all the practice tweets....Tannehill seems to have made alot of improvement in that area.

 

If so, fml

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