Great Piece on Tannehill vs. Bills by Football Outsiders

Pretty much, they merely are repeating what we all have seen.

This OL overall is just shockingly bad, THill's errors are par for the course for a young, harried Qb and explains some, not all, of his problems so far this year.

A bit surprised how FO can see how badly Clabo has struggled and not think McKinnie is an instant upgrade.

 

Just read that Pro Football Focus has the Dolphin's Defense ranked at #4 overall.

The breakdown is:
#14 vs the run
#3 in pass rush
#11 in coverage
#8 in penalties

This is based on their assessment (eyeball test???) on each player's individual play, and then combined. They also include DB's vs the run, DE's in coverage, etc...

Individual Ranks Overall:


4-3 DE - Wake #13, Shelby #27, OV #38. Jordan doesn't have enough snaps to rank. This is huge issue as Jordan makes things happen. Coyle need to get him involved more.


DT/NT - Starks #5, Odrick #9, Soliai #11


4-3 OLB - Wheeler #19, Misi #23


ILB - Ellerbe #33 Injuries/missed plays are part of this.


CB - Grimes #11, Carroll #27, Wilson #57


S - Clemons #29, Jones #63

===

Football Outsiders has the Dolphins Defense ranked at #20

 

Ellerbe's rating has been like that all season. He's purely not playing well at all when he is on the field. Wheeler's coverage is bringing his rating down but he's doing what we want from him in pass rush/run stopping. Jones is slowly improving. He was near dead last earlier in the season.

 

I really think people are underestimating the fact that if Clabo was as good as he should be, we'd all be jerking off about the team's chances right now.

 

Read on another forum that Tannehill "is losing the locker room". Post discussion by 2 guys claiming to "know" this. Anyone heard or read anything to this effect? One is usually FOS. The other not so much.

 

Eh, I don't think so. There are plenty of problems on this team.

 

Of course you don't. There's months worth of rhetoric behind your view.

As it stands right now, we probably would be at least 4-2 if Clabo played anything like he did last year.

 

Which is why coaches in the NFL are at best "anal"..severely toilet trained.

It is not problems that matter, it is plays, a FG kicker can miss 2 kicks, hit the GW FG and all is forgiven.

 

Point me to this rhetoric because I don't remember it.

 

Thank you, wise Jedi.

 

Could be, but I think even if they were 4-2 it'd still be somewhat of a mirage as the defense is not very good. That's what concerns me most both in the short-term and the long-term.

 

Eh, to many important pieces were nicked up, Soliai, Wake, Patterson, Ellerbe, this is one of the reasons why I'm not overly concerned as of yet.

 

I'm more inclined to go with Football Outsiders on this one. Miami's 20th in points allowed (23.3 ppg), 21st in total defense (372.2 ypg), 25th in passing defense (269.3 ypg), and 15th in rush defense (102.8 ypg).

I find it interesting that PFF has a lot of individuals with high grades, yet the unit as a whole has struggled. IMO, that speaks to scheme (coaching) which is a problem I've been espousing since the Atlanta game. And the limiting of Dion Jordan's snaps is bordering on criminal. He's making an impact nearly every time he's on the field...but he's not on the field very much in favor of Olivier Vernon. That situation should be the other way around, and even then, I still think Dion Jordan is miscast as a 4-3 DE.

 

You're being ridiculous

 

That's a fair point to make thus far. I think the next two games will be a pretty accurate barometer of just how good, or bad, this defense actually is. I still have issues with the scheme though - sorry to beat a dead horse on that padre as I know we've discussed this in other threads - but I still think this defense should be used in ways that we've not seen from Kevin Coyle.

 

That is the way I see it, and also think the STers have hit a soft patch, aside from the Thigpen return, it has been all negatives and giving up "hidden" yardage.

Easy to focus on Speed Bump and Tin Man (JMart is so stiff he reminds me of OZ's Tin Man), reality is there is PLENTY of blame to go around...as Ck pointed out Daniel Thomas did not exactly stone Jerry Hughes on that strip sack by Williams

 

Agreed. And that's a damn good comparison, nicely done.

 

Thing is, he is mediocre at least, his feet save him, stiff as a board with active feet ie classic positional blocker.

Clabo literally has not done a positive thing that I've seen save for motoring behind the LoS on a pull at speed and hitting his target on a sweep, otherwise..he's stealing.

Specials:

Sturgis: 2 missed Fg's in a pair of 2 pt losses
Don Jones bonehead on downing a punt..cost 3 pts in a 2 pt loss
RJ Stanford's hold on a decent Thigpen punt return negates a 15 yd or so return..no points on that drive in a 2 pt loss

Gotta be sharper than that Darren Rizzi, what is wrong with your guys, you are not winning that 18% that most are getting paid to do.

 

That is how Specials lose you games instead of winning you over the league avg of games RR.

Avg ST's wins 1-2 games a year, great ones win you 3-4 gms a yr.

 

Coyle says his reps might not go up, maybe some weeks yes, other weeks they might think they have a better matchup.

 

When we have a lead to protect Jordan will see more snaps, I'm not worried about him. I'm worried about Cam Wake, the pass rush has been good without him and it'll be dominant if/when Wake returns to form. Clabo's being talked to death but a healthy Wake will make an exponentially bigger difference than a replacement at RT.

 

Ireland is a beast at picking defensive tackles.

 

Unfair to expect him to perform at the same level as other second year players, ok how about we expect him to perform at the same level as first year player as Geno Smith? Seriously we need to stop making excuses for the guy, this game is about turn overs and Tannehill loves doing just that.

 

The fact is the OL played decently for the first three quarters of the Bills game. The Bills really didn't get pressure on Tannehill until late in the 4th quarter. Yet Tannehill threw one pick six and he had a second interception when he wasn't under a lot of pressure. This offense is one of the lowest rated offenses in the NFL. While the OL is the biggest reason for the overall lack of productivity of this side of the ball. Tannehill still has a long way to go to prove he is the answer for the Dolphins at the QB position.

His pocket awareness still needs to improve and he needs to get better at looking off his primary receiver. He has had nine TD passes so far this season, but has also had seven interceptions, along with seven fumbles. A better OL should help reduce the fumbles because he has been completed blindsided on several of those fumbles.

I still think Tannehill can turn out to be a very effective QB in the NFL. He just needs to be a lot more consistent going forward than he has been over the first 22 games of his career in Miami.

 

Really?? Hmm by the looks of things he is out playing Geno by a good bit, oh and the QB from last years SB champs and the undefeted Chiefs and the AFC East division leader. Just sayin. Take off your blinders and look at the whole picture. We have ourselves one heck of a young QB that we will be proud of for the next 10-15 years if this Oline does not get him killed.

 

Let's cut him then since you said so.

Geno Smith isn't lighting it up or doing better than RT. He turns the ball over too behind a much better Oline

 

Thats not exactly the case...he wasnt sacked...but he still almost never had a clean pocket to throw from. Think about the times we have watched Tom Brady stand in a pocket...for like 4-5 seconds and never get touched.

 

That's ok, when one puts out rhetoric they tend not to realize that's what it is:

That's just over the past couple of days and there's plenty more.

 

So Geno Smith is a benchmark now?

I need to become an alcoholic again. Jesus.

 

Which is the problem, IMO. I think having Dion Jordan on the field gives the Dolphins a better matchup if they use him the way they should. Coyle's missed the mark in that regard.

 

Looking at first the 3rd and 6 interception picture, I'm struck by how the NFL considers this as having seven players on the line of scrimmage. What do they consider being on the line of scrimmage for offensive linemen? Clabo and Martin are as far back as Gibson.

 

He didn't pick Paul Soliai, Randy Mueller did. He and Brandon Fields - the two bright spots from that awful 2007 season. Starks was also acquired via free agency. Jason Ferguson was acquired via trade.

 

Roy Miami huh? Jeff, I think you should be out working the phones right now.

 

I've always believed that broken plays are much more predictive of QB's potential. IMO that's why so many college QBs get over-drafted. people get blinded by the numbers put up behind great protection. And evaluators get caught up in how the QB has the "ability" to make every throw. Sure, they need that ability, but that's only part of it. They have to have that same ability when they don't have a clean lane or pocket. That's what makes Luck such a great prospect. He has that ability inside or outside of the pocket. Wilson has it outside of the pocket and to a lesser extent, inside the pocket.

As for RT, he has shown that ability both inside and out, but he hasn't shown the anticipation you hope for. I think he makes the right pre-snap reads more often than not, but he doesn't anticipate the break-downs enough. He has to trust his protection and he does that well (arguably too well). But he also has to be able to be able to look at the match-ups and realize where the potential breakdowns will occur. For example, if you know that this is one of those plays where he has Clabo on Williams with no help then that's an obvious spot where his protection could break down. He needs to be aware of what's happening in that match-up and be prepared to move, throw it away or hit the ground and cover up. Based on his experience he should formulate a quick "what if" plan. IMO that's what makes Wilson so good. His anticipation is incredible. Guys like Luck, Big Ben and Newton can get away with less anticipation b/c they're such physically strong freaks, but most everybody else has to have a plan. I think that's one of the things that made Brady so special so quickly. I think he has a method of thinking, a plan for the "what ifs" on each play. That makes him just a little less surprised and a little quicker, better at responding when things go wrong.

To further illustrate my point, I'll reference Doug Flutie. For the younger guys, Flutie was a physically limited QB who had some pretty dramatic wins in college, the NFL and CFL. He wasn't a good enough passer to beat a team from the pocket and he lacked the size and strength to break tackles. His great strength was his ability to anticipate and make good decisions in adverse situations. I watched an interview once where they asked him why he was so good in his dramatic comebacks. He stated that before each snap he would consider the situation and decide how much of a risk he needed to take in the given situation. If you're losing and it's 4th down and there's a second left you obviously throw it up regardless. But in other situations the QB has to use more discretion.

I think guys like Peyton Manning and Joe Montana are/were always great at knowing where the breakdowns might come from and knowing where their possible outs were. Peyton would know where his check downs were or which WR or TE was likely to beat his guy. Montana would do the same or know that his best out was probably to run (say he saw a man D and had routes in that would vacate an area).

I think that's the area where RT needs to develop. He has shown the ability to make the on-schedule plays when things go right. He can make every throw. He can pass on time and his accuracy is easily among the top 10 (arguably top 5) at all distances when he has a clean pocket. He has also shown the ability to make some great throws in less than pristine conditions, as the article illustrates. He has shown the physical ability to throw accurately outside the pocket or to run with it. But he's making those plays mostly on his physical ability. He's not anticipating the "what ifs" and preparing his outs. I think he has that film rat personality which will make him more Peyton-like down the line. I think experience will teach him which outs work best and I think he'll put in the hours to improve his mental side. I see that as the missing component that can vault him into the elite category. Obviously most QBs don't make that leap. But I think RT has the personality that gives him a great chance to be among the few who do.

Now I do believe that if Clabo and Jerry had been had just been as good as they'd been the last few years that RT's numbers (and the team record would look markedly better). RT would still not be elite (he would still need the development I mentioned above), but fans and media would think he was.

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/s...ryan-tannehill-can-learn-from-tom-brad/nbXLY/