So we can draft another slot WR and hope he's as good as Camarillo? I love it! No.

If Turner impresses you could see it happening.

 

Why trade someone you want to use, when you can trade Ginn whom you were not going to use?

 

Don't think Cam would garner any more than a 6 and Miami'd be lucky to get a 6 for him. Ginn was a 5th probably because of his speed, KR/PR ability, and "potential threat" as WR (which we saw once against the Jets).

 

We might trade Cam before the deadline if Turner explodes in training camp and preseason, but I don't want to move him before that unlikely event actually happens.

 

With Ginn gone and Turner still unproven, I think we need to keep Cam around. He will be a reliable target for Henne to throw to and build confidence. He doesn't turn the ball over and I think Henne looks at him like a safe play when he's being pressured

 

I'd rather try and reunite Pat Turner with Pete Carrol for a 5th or 6th.

 

Let's not all forget the game winning drive of the Jets night game so quickly.

 

Why, we already forgot another big reason we won that game a few hours ago...:pity:

 

You aren't going to get much for Cam. Possession receivers are a dime a dozen. Ginn has speed and KR capabilities that is why he was worth a 5th.

 

It's pretty hard to forget because we are constantly reminded of it whenever TG name is mentioned.

 

You do know that player lost us as many or more games than he won right

 

TG only wins games for the Dolphins. He NEVER loses them.

 

Care to explain?

Just going off the top of my head -

1. Ted Ginn was integral in winning us one of the Bills game in 2008.

2. I remember he made a huge 3rd or 4th down catch against the Jets in the 2nd game in 2008 that kept a pivotal 4th quarter drive alive.

3. Scored TDs in the Chiefs game and Seahawks games that we won by less than 1 TD.

4. Huge TD catch in the 1st Jets game of 2009 that we won by less than a TD.

5. Two return TDs in 2nd Jets game. Nuff said.


I guess maybe you could make a shaky argument that he cost us the Colts game. He maybe played a role in the Saints loss, but you'll really have a hard time convincing anyone hear he cost us that game himself. Even if I give you that, I count 5 games he helped us win, and 2 he helped us lose.

 

I disagree.

 

Cam would net a lot less than a 5th. I actually doubt we could get anything for him.

 

I'm not going to dig back into the past 3 seasons because I don't have the time, but going off his most recent season, and by association the most valid, I feel he cost us both the saints and the colts game off the top of my head, not singlehandedly, but neither of the jets games he helped us win were done singlehandedly either.

Not to mention countless crucial drops for would-be 1st downs that could have potentially kept us in countless other games, all of which can be viewed here

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYSxJgjjJFc"]YouTube- Ted Ginn Jr. and Snoop Dogg - Drop it Like it's Hot[/ame]

I think a lot of the fans on this message board are having ex-girlfriend syndrome, where all you remember are the good times you had once she's gone but not the countless problems that made you leave each other in the first place. No offense to anyone in particular.

 

Do you think that's a bad thing? I think having a guy who is as reliable as Camarillo as our 4th best (honestly it's debatable) WR is a great thing. It's been a long, long time since we've had depth as solid as this at WR. Injuries can always happen.
By the way, it's quite possible that we see some 4 wide sets now. Why not?
If you have the weapons, why not use them?

 

I think far more people are focusing on a few bad plays and ignoring the many more good plays he provided. Prior to this year he didn't have an issue with drops and despite his well documented struggles last year he did produce 5 TDs. Outside of RWs and RB I don't know that we have any other players we can say that about.

I'm not saying Ginn is irreplaceable or that I'm not excited by Hartline's potential, but to claim that Ginn lost us more games than he won is grossly inaccurate.

 

This isn't baseball where doing your job half the time makes you a .500 hitter and the greatest of all time, being inconsistent just 5% of the time can absolutely kill your value to a team.

If we're counting games where Ginn didn't drop multiple balls as games he "Won" for us, I'd agree with you. But if you put big plays he made against big plays he missed (or worse, big plays he made for the other team) in the 2009 season, the ratio isn't enough for me and it obviously wasn't enough for Sparano, Ireland, or Parcells.

 

I vote no on the G-reg trade

 

Claiming any one player 'won' a game is pretty tough. Let's take the classic TG Jets game.

We won that game by 5 points ( 30 - 25 ). When you win a game by that few points any one play that you remove equates a loss. TG did have 2 TD's, absolutely, but let's not downplay other huge plays in that game. JT had a fumble recovery for TD, Henne and the offense made a HUGE TD drive (pass to Hanos) near the end of the game to get us back in the lead. And the D stepped up and made the stop at the end of the game to seal the win.

So you remove any 1 play and we lose. And if we lose the game, Ginn isn't a "Jet Killer". It would have been just a great performance in a loss.

So to say Ginn 'won' that game downplays the big plays other members of the team made.

That being said, was TG a huge part of that win? Sure. Did he help us win? Sure. Did he win it by himself? No.

 

I hope would we would draft a WR to be better than Camarillo. At least set the bar beyond mediocre.

Miami could probably get a 7th.

 

I like Cammy but D Bess is our slot and has more potential

 

Man, some of you guys are absolutely brutal on Greg Camarillo.

A 500-600 yard receiver with a high catch percentage does not come for free. You don't find them on the ground, on a street corner, etc. and so on. It doesn't come free with a ribbon of participation for being involved in the draft like your elementary school science fair.

I can't believe people are all "You'll never get pick X for Camarillo" when three hours ago it was "How can you possibly get a 5th round pick for Ginn when that's what Santonio Holmes went for???//"

Why would they even trade Camarillo, anyway?

 

I'm not saying he didn't have struggles or even that he didn't have too many mistakes. What I'm saying is that your statement that he lost more games for us than he won is grossly inaccurate.

 

You can get the pick for Ginn b/c somebody will bank on the potential regardless of whether you believe it's there or not. In fact that's what SF specifically talked about when asked about the trade. Nobody is banking on there being any great untapped potential in Cam. So while I don't think they would trade Cam, I also don't think they could get anything for him.

 

Greg Camarillo isn't a slot receiver. He lines up there when the team has four players split wide and there are two slot positions, but overwhelmingly it's Bess.

 

Greg Camarillo did as do a lot of 500-600 yard receivers.

Who would trade a 5th round pick for Camarillo? That would be crazy.

 

Possibly, and some are only remembering the bad things that were done. The thing is you guys have to let go of the fact that he was drafted some 20-30 spots too high for his value. That's not his fault. This regime forced the issue to 'make' him into something he wasn't (#1WR). That also isn't his fault. I'm not going to say that we'll miss him this coming season, I don't know that, but there is something to be said for putting your players in a position to be successful. That wasn't done by either regime he's been under. I think it would be quite ironic if he goes out there and flourishes in a role that's suited for him...However, the Ginn-haters will never see or acknowledge anything the kid did or does right, in the past, now or in the future....

 

The five receivers right ahead of Camarillo in terms of yardage this year-


Nate Washington UDFA
Muhsin Muhammed 2nd round 14 years ago was a #1 receiver last year.
Jason Avant- 4th round
Donnie Avery- 2nd round
Dwayne Bowe- 1st round

 

And I believe whatever criteria you're using to determine a game he won versus a game he lost is grossly inaccurate.

I can't argue with that. And I wouldn't be surprised if he does well as a #2 in SF, in fact in another thread I mentioned that I was almost happier to put Ginn in the NFC than to get a pick for him, just because I knew some team like the Pats would scoop him up if we ever cut himand get production out of him.

In the end, Ginn was a finesse player on a team that is anything but, and last year put the final nail in his coffin, through nobody's fault but his own.

 

We're not trading Camarillo. He had a great 2008 before the injury, and came around later in 2009, catching every ball thrown to him. Now we can get him open more it's like almost an automatic 1st down.

 

I find blaming Ginn for the loss against the Colts pretty ridiculous considering that he had 11 catches for 108 yards.

The game where he returned the two kicks for touchdowns was as close to single-handedly winning a game as you'll see.

 

In the Colts game on the last drive he caught 3 or four passes, all on 3rd or 4th down, all to keep the drive alive. He did not drop the game winning pass. Period. Pennington underthrew the ball. The defender grabbed Ginn's jersey and had a hand wrapped around his body. If Penny throws the ball earlier instead of taking 3 hops (yes he took 3 hops) it would have been a TD since Ted was 3 steps ahead of the DB. The screen shots were taken and blown up in the Club Level back then.

He's gone now. But he did not lose the colts game for us. But for him, we would have not even driven down the field. And if Pennington doesn't take three bunny hops and just throws the damn ball, Ginn wouldnt' have been interfered with.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkDzHRbfZ-E"]YouTube- NFL Game Center Indianapolis Colts at Miami Dolphins 2009 Week 2[/ame]

Start the tape at 3:40. Freeze it at 3:54 to see a fistfull of jersey.

The Saint's game, one can argue that the blown call on the safety when he came back and knocked the ball out shouldn't have been in the first place if he didn't tip the ball. And I agree. Many things caused us to lose that game, and Ginn was one of them.

 

By the way. I love how we ripped Ted Ginn for his drops, and rightfully so. Everyone loves Bess, says Cam is expendable. But Cam had zero drops, while Bess dropped 7 and put 6 balls on the ground.

 

if he had some heart, we might have won them all ....