Greg Jennings vrs Mike Wallace..a year later.

LOL. Exactly.

 

It is Roger's fault. We could be arguing why the 6th pick in the draft is a wasted pick or not by this time last year!

 

For the next week we should all come to these debates and vehemently argue for the opposite side we normally would. Keep it interesting in here.

 

So breaking tackles does not require effort?

 

That's not what I said. Doing anything requires effort. The point, which is flagrantly obvious, is that all fighting for the ball requires is effort, so there's no reason for it to not be "part of Wallace's game".

 

Oh my GOD!!! Wallace was the ONLY WR who dropped a gimme pass last year. That's awful. He should be killed. Or at least cut and forced to move to Oklahoma.

 

Well we cannot have the Bess vs Hartline debates with Shouright anymore, so there has gotta be something to replace it.

 

He didn't sniff 9 drops the whole year, let alone 9 at a certain depth. Stats inc, and football charts both have Wallace at either 3-4 drops. PFF made an error.

 

This reminds me of the old "Henne doesn't trust or have chemistry" with Brandon Marshall. Then people say LOOK Davone Bess is producing!! They love complaining about not having a WR, then when we get one he's the culprit.

 

Funny because above there are GIFs of Wallace dropping two balls in the Saints game alone. I guess there were only one or two other drops in the other 15 games combined?

 

I dunno, just going by the stats. Ya know.

 

Here's another.

 

Are they? Where is the concrete proof of that? All I have seen is speculation. After he scores 9-10 TDs next season, hopefully the fans can find something else to snivel and whine about besides Wallace's contract.

Very few if any big ticket UFAs ever live up to the large contracts they sign. Yet teams have money to spend and still do those big deals every year. Wallace makes twice as much as Hartline. Does that mean if Hartline has 60 catches and 5 TDs, that unless Wallace has 120 catches and 10 TDs that he didn't live up to his contract?

 

8 more. Let's go!

 

And here's a 4th one...considering there were only supposed to be 3 or 4 these are getting pretty easy to find...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-.../Mike-Wallace-drops-potential-game-winning-TD

 

That's thrown behind him. You can argue all day whether that is a drop or not, but PFF specifically says they do not rate the effort required of the WR. If it hits the hands they count it. Stats LLC rates their drops on passes that require normal effort to catch. They probably don't count that as a drop.

Now, I'm not trying to ignite a debate on whether or not that should be counted as a drop. Both methods have their disadvantages. Say a WR makes an incredible acrobatic leap to try and pull in an errant pass by the QB. Gets his hands on the ball but drops it. PFF counts it. Stats doesn't.

If Wallace doesn't even puts his hands up PFF doesn't count this one as a drop.

And this one wouldn't count either:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-.../Mike-Wallace-drops-potential-game-winning-TD

 

Not really. Well, if you want to be right you won't argue about it all day.

 

I'm explaining the difference in the two stats companies. Stats LLC only counts those that require normal effort by the WR.

 

That's got to be a drop. Pathetic effort, arms aren't even fully extended. If I was him I'd be embarrassed to have another receiver see that play.

 

Ofcourse the throw was behind him, it was par for the course.

But hey, I don't want to piss in anyone's cornflakes since pointing out a flaw in Ryan's game is taboo because it ruins the wet dreams of posters who want him to be a franchise QB.

 

What part of that play was abnormal?

 

I have no problem with criticizing Ryan Tannehill. I've been an open proponent of drafting Teddy Bridgewater at 19 if he were to make it to that spot.

Regardless, Mike Wallace bears a lot of responsibility for his own lack of production despite all the excuse-making.

 

You read wrong. Wallace has been at home all off season. Tannehill had been throwing on his own in Miami with the other wide receivers but Wallace was home in New Orleans. Wallace checked into Miami's voluntary off season workouts a day late. He was the only player to do so.

 

Thrown behind him.

Take it up with Stats, LLC, that podunk upstart stat company, not me

 

He does deserve some criticism, but he's under Tannehill in that department. And Teddy Bridgewater??? That would be the final straw. We have a good QB, he just needs to get better in a few areas, namely? Connecting with one of the best deep threats in the NFL.

 

Even when you're right, most arguments are not worth more than a few minutes.

 

If you want to share blame that's fine. I think it's on both of them. I'm pointing out to those who think it's all Wallace, that it isn't all Wallace. It's playcall and Tannehill's late recognition as well. Why?

Ben knew once Mike is even with the defender he's passing him. Tanny almost waits until Mike has that step to release it. It's something that will come with time.

Look at this play I've posted it before. They have time for a play action fake and still hits Wallace in stride at almost full speed at the 45'ish yard line.

[video=youtube;arKd8qnPB-I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arKd8qnPB-I[/video]

If you check out the 53 yard TD to Wallace, even though it results in a TD, it was late.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000287545/QB-Tannehill-to-WR-Wallace-53-yd-pass-TD

At :48-49 you can pause it and see Tanny doesn't release it until Wallace is already past his guy and is looking back hoping the ball will be thrown his way. Now go back to the beginning and see how long Tanny is looking Wallace's way, how long he keeps scrambling before finally pulling the trigger. He scrambles for almost two seconds before releasing it. In real time the announcer is saying how bad of a throw it is.

 

You could also make the argument that Wallace ran the route wrong, which caused the ball to be thrown behind him.

 

I've been saying since November, if Wallace is even he's leavin....Ryan struggled with anticipation a fair amount this year. Lazor will be the best thing to ever happen to Tannehill. And that includes Lauren.

 

You might want to reconsider what Ben Roethlisberger supposedly "knew" considering he had no more luck throwing deep to Mike Wallace in 2012 than Ryan Tannehill did in 2013.

Mike Wallace used to be a compelling receiver. He's not anymore. He's just vastly overpaid. Don't worry. You'll see that soon enough when he's cut and then forced to take a dramatic pay cut.

 

Why would anyone bring up catch rate to "defend" Wallace? It's near 50% which is terrible. Your memory is being selective, maybe willfully. I've seen it brought up to show how terrible having Wallace on the team is.

People have been using catch rate to kill our WRs going back to Chris Chambers. You don't remember the one year CC had the worst catch rate in the NFL, and Football Outsiders called him the NFL's worst receiver? I defended CC, saying those targets included thrown away passes, you need to take into account throwaways and routes ran etc.

That might be the forum that shall not be named, but it continued with Ginn and now Wallace. And I've seen it used to praise receivers here too.

 

I'm saying that "catch rate" is about as useless in evaluating wide receivers as rainfall in Egypt and so more often than not when I see it brought up about Mike Wallace it's by someone like you pretending that Mike Wallace's detractors are commonly using something as idiotic as "catch rate" so that you can point out how misleading the stat is and therefore they're all wrong and you're all right. I.e. a straw man.

But the reality is I can't remember the last time someone on this board used explicit "catch rate" to criticize Mike Wallace.

 

Everyone took a hit in 2012. Antonio Brown went from 16 ypc down to 12 the first year under Haley. You have to account for the OC in 2012 that Ben has openly complained about consistently since he took over. You attribute some of Sherman's play design to the lack of big play success between Tanny and Wallace so you need to mention the dink and dunk'meister that is Todd Haley when discussing lack of success in 2011. Ben R took a 1 ypa hit as well with the change, not insignificant.

This is the year though. I'm still hopefully. They connect on just just a few that they barely missed and maybe we're talking playoffs this past year.

Is he overpaid? Sure, but that doesn't concern me unless we're in cap trouble. Let Aponte worry about that. I didn't even really want to sign him for that much. But he's here, and I have hope these two will get on the same page. WE're talking just a few more hookups and it's a completely different season. If he fails yet again under Lazor, then yeah he needs to go sign with Arizona and complement Michael Floyd.

 

You used a subset of it just today.

So catch rate for 20+ is ok to bring up for debate. Catch rate for 0+ is not. Ok got it, point noted. (Before you say you were discussing Tannehill I'd like to mention you used it to single out Wallace.)

 

You're right, it's Mikes fault.

Happy?

I'm sure you are.

 

I'd beg to differ on that. Miami might've had a better overall QB than Minnesota but Tannehill's downfield performance was indisputably worse, and that area just so happens to be where Wallace does his greatest damage.

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 830"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Passes of 21+ yards[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Rating[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]attempts[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]complete[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]yards[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]yards/attempt[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]TD[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]TD%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]INT[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]INT%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Minnesota[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]91.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]69[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]973[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14.1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]33.3%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10.1%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5.8%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Miami[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]45.0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]60[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]518[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21.7%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5.0%[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



How many of those proper deep balls like this 57 yarder was Wallace afforded when he was running wide open downfield?









http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000299073/Greg-Jennings-57-yard-touchdown-catch

 

That looks more like a mix up than a drop. Wallace was continuing across the field, RT wanted him to throttle down.

 

No he didn't. Tannehill completed only 2 of 10 attempts beyond 20 yards to Hartline.

 

Where I come from we call that a kill shot. Lol.