1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Hard to know about Henne

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by J_Alfred Prufrock, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. J_Alfred Prufrock

    J_Alfred Prufrock New Member

    6
    6
    0
    Jan 22, 2011
    As I start paying more attention to the Fins and (hopefully) getting ready for an offseason, I have a few questions. I know there are alot of smart people that know alot more about the Fins than I do, so hopefully some of you can shed some light on this.

    Is it possible that Henne as a QB isnt that bad, but the coaching he's rec'd has prevented his progress?

    If thats true, then is it possible that the Oline is in the same boat?

    Is Jeff Ireland possibly setting Tony Sparano up for failure with the hiring of Daboll and the promotion of Dorrell?

    I know it cynnical, but consider:
    -Our biggest problem was offense last year, and Daboll ran a worse offense than ours.
    -Our biggest problem on offense last year was QB, and KD has no exp developing QBs.

    I think if Henne gets cut or not resigned this year, he'll go to a team with an est, but aging vet (Saints, Indy, Seattle) and could turn out ok because he could get the coaching he needs.

    Seems to me the logical way to improve this team would be to axe Sparano, promote Nolan, and find the best OC you can find (not Daboll). Nolan didnt succeed in SF because he gambled on Alex Smith developing the way Aaron Rodgers has (and most experts agreed on that, IIRC). Its hard to recover when the first pick is a QB that doesnt pan our. Rarely are coaches who miss on a first pick QB successful.

    As always, please take my opinions for what they are...the ranting of a rank amateur. Many of you have expert knowledge and most of you know way more about this than me. I am just commenting as a casual, but interested, observer. Thanks.
     
  2. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    Welcome about Jap. You seem respectful, so we're glad to have you here.
    I've had similar thoughts of seeing Henne go to another team who pumps the life back into him.

    PS: You might need to change your name though b/c KB might think we're talking about him.*
     
  3. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    Henne will never be a winning/ franchise QB in the NFL. trade him, sit him, pick up a draft choice.
     
    RGF and gunn34 like this.
  4. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

    9,313
    4,169
    0
    Nov 11, 2008
    Your opinion is no longer needed. :up:
     
    GISH and Moves like this.
  5. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    It's also possible that what we've seen is what we'll get!

    Who knows? I sure don't pretend to know but I do know I'm not comfortable having him penciled in as the starter. Bring on a worthy competitor and let go 50 rounds to decide.
     
    gunn34 and texanphinatic like this.
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    105,980
    60,779
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Pro's and con's about Chad Henne..

    Con's..

    Has 0 pocket awareness..

    Has 0 escapability talent..

    Has 2 left feet..

    Locks onto receivers..

    Cant relax in the pocket..

    slow speed of QB motion..

    Has minimal touch on the football, which is counter productive in constricted red zone situations.

    Pro's..

    Has a rifle right arm..

    Has some toughness and some mental resolve..


    I think more than most teams we have some visual evidence of how dynamics of an entire team can be related to the QB position..Penny 3 years ago with less talent and the same coaches compared to Henne with more talent and the same coaches..now how much you attribute his failures to being young is up for debate..

    My problem with henne is his skillset...I dont believe all the tools are there to stand up against playoff pressure..
     
    GISH and texanphinatic like this.
  7. F.O

    F.O New Member

    124
    55
    0
    Sep 26, 2009
    Henne equals,

    No emotion or will to win. No pocket presence, slow feet, clumsy, poor decision maker, has no athleticism to speak of, no touch, terrible fundamentals (slow as molasses release, low release point, poor in the shotgun, etc.), picks the wrong throwing lanes, has 2nd most batted balls at the line than any QB in the league, inaccurate , can't beat shell coverages, stares down receivers constantly...

    But other than that, he is a pretty good QB.
     
    GISH and RGF like this.
  8. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Sounds like you're describing a horrible QB, but when the tape goes on, that's not what I see at all. Henne was an average QB for much of the year, then tailed off when the OL, WR, TE corps fell apart late in the season. I would strongly suggest that peeps go back & watch the games again. It seems as though the last few games of this season are overshadowing Henne's total body of work.
     
    Trowa and jetssuck like this.
  9. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

    12,821
    8,361
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Hamilton, Ontario Canada
    Amazes me how much Henne is the focus when our passing game finished 16th (in other words at the very least 'average') while our running game finished 21st in yards and 29th in avg carry & TD's. Of course Henne should be a focus but the attention is too slanted towards such (like 95/5).
     
    Trowa, GMJohnson and ToddsPhins like this.
  10. NFL2102

    NFL2102 New Member

    1,142
    142
    0
    Oct 4, 2010
    I've posted this before, but you watch this and tell me this guy has no potential.

    [video=youtube;TERnwoqnmLk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TERnwoqnmLk[/video]
     
    dolfan22 likes this.
  11. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

    52,650
    25,564
    113
    Nov 13, 2009
    [video=youtube;NCgH6sTEeP8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCgH6sTEeP8[/video]

    ...translated to

    [​IMG]
     
  12. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Nope. It's all he had in 09. You know, when he had a solid O-line and wasn't uncoached.

    Still nope. Ran for a few 1st downs this year but check 09.

    Mechanics deteriorated somewhat from 09, but still look at him in 09. He got uncoached.

    Doesn't do it nearly as bad and at this point this has become sort of a grasp.

    Escape or relax? Which one you want? Quick Trigger or Chilled? Hard to be both. Contradiction.

    Again, he was a faster person in 2009. I believe he was told to slow down.

    I'll agree, his touch is lacking. No argument from me here.

    Is able to make difficult throws. Gets into rhythms where he completes 10+ passes straight. There's more, but what's the point when you don't want to see it?

    How much do you want to attribute to Pennington having an outlier year, against the easiest schedule ever known, the worst defenses. You can't disregard the lack of production of Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams. The emergence of the Wildcat. Pennington's lack of ability when playing good defenses. His veteranship. How well the scheme fit him (Robert Horry or Adamp can give more info on this), the lack of David Martin, a regressed O-Line. I mean dj seriously, stop it. You're making it seem like all things are equal between 08 and 10. The only offensive improvement over 2008 has been Marshall while regression includes the Oline, RB's, experience, lack of good catching TE, regression of the Wildcat. AND we played some of the most difficult D's in the league.

    .

    By all means, explain this more thoroughly. And I just don't know of much second year starting QB's with a coaching staff like ours that would stand up to Playoff pressure.

    [video=youtube;TERnwoqnmLk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TERnwoqnmLk[/video]

    That video shows him doing everything you say he can't do. What happened? This kid was uncoached and you know it.
     
    resnor and djphinfan like this.
  13. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    You mean I've posted that before.
     
  14. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    The guy has a tendency under no pressure to toss up wounded ducks. One wounded duck a game is enough to kill you.
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    105,980
    60,779
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    for me GM, i had had enough by midseason, I was one who said it was time to see if Penny could jump start the offense and team, and let Henne sit and watch..There were issues for me before the collection of games your referring to..

    The game did not slow down for him all season long.

    just to let you know Iam not bias to my opinion, I also was in favor of Henne taking over for Penny last year..I wanted to see what a lethal arm could do for us...I learned a lesson in player evaluation..which has always been my weakness...falling in love with the arm.
     
    gunn34 likes this.
  16. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    The only problem I have is that it wasnt our passing game that underperformed this year. It was the run game that fell off of a cliff. IIRC we finished 16th in passing, and we'd be 14th if you don't count the debacle vs Chicago. Henne played OK vs Buffalo & Minnesota, well against NYJ, then had a bad game vs NE where he got impatient and started forcing throws. He had a nice bounce back game vs Green Bay, was decent vs Pittsburgh, pretty good in Cincinnati and then stumbled vs Baltimore. With the exception of Minnesota, all of those teams have formidable pass defenses, and overall, I think Henne did OK.

    I can agree that Penne fits Henning's style more than Henne, and IMO Henning (and Sparano?) wanted Penne as the QB all along. But IMO Henning was more of a problem than Henne was. Ronnie wasn't used properly, nor was Marshall, Ricky, Incognito, Long or Henne. Henning just ran his plays with little noticeable regard for who he had on the field, and the end of the Buffalo was gross incompetence on his part. Thankfully he's gone, Sparano came within a fist pump of being fired, now we'll get to see what the Brass thinks of Henne. And if they go with him for another year, add a little firepower to the mix, then we'll probably be able to put this debate to rest once and for all.
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    105,980
    60,779
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I'll try to be more specific Sonic..

    1} I believe his Pass protection was pretty good for most of the year..

    2} He's had Chad Pennington in his ear in the film room, acting like a coach for 3 years...not sure a young QB can have a better mentor.

    3} His athleticism has been poor since he stepped on the field, that issue is not a comparable one for me, 2009 to 2010..its all the same.

    4} His mechanics getting worse as he plays more is disturbing...The feet are not getting the message from the brain in time for the feet to get set..The body needs to be retrained....years of neglecting serious training of his body has shown thru to me..He improved his body last offseason but hes got to do more.

    5} I want my QB to be able to relax in the pocket, survey the field, spot the open target, set his feet, and release..he's not doing this, and he doesn't have the athletic ability to escape...that is most obvious...When you feel pressure, and you crouch, and your eyes go off the secondary, it means you cant do it, and probably never will..The 6th sense to feel pressure using peripheral vision is not in his repertoire.

    6} When I say playoff pressure, I mean everything will be that much faster, so Chad's weaknesses will be even more exploited, right down to the hitch in his throwing motion.

    7} besides that Penny played an easier schedule, I have never seen a more visual form of evidence to indite a player..The variables are there to compare..I choose to do so, not make excuses for Henne..He had better talent on offense, more experienced talent, and he had a defense that kept him in games all season..

    Give Penny Brandon marshall, and that defense to play off of, and hell we might be talking about an even bigger discrepency of team play and actual wins..

    I hope for Henne's sake he was in the gym today for 2 hours working on his lower body, cause if he's not doing everything he can do improve, I dont think his skillset can hang..

    I hope to see big gains come training camp...

    Chad Pennington is coming back for a reason....am I counting on it, no, but I dont underestimate the intelligence that went into the decision to do it.
     
    gunn34 and miamiron like this.
  18. Cass

    Cass Active Member

    396
    191
    43
    Apr 24, 2009
    Bristol, England
    The jury is out on Henne, at least imo. How he does this year under a different OC will probably determine whether we look to replace him the next off season. This time he gets a free pass due to the lack of available talent out there and the change in OC. Could he become our QB? Yes, he does have undoubted potential. Will he fulfil that potential though? Well that's the (multi) million dollar question.
     
    GMJohnson likes this.
  19. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    Henne will never be a winning/ franchise QB in the NFL.
    trade him, sit him, pick up a draft choice to replace him
    this is a mute subject for anyone who has eyes in their head
    & the interest of the franchise @ heart. it is what it is
    Henne is a bust & sooner or later he will go the way of GinnJr.

    the first priority of this team in the off-season should be
    QB's that have the potential to win games to replace this bum in 2011
    the end:deadhorse:
     
    RGF and gunn34 like this.
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    105,980
    60,779
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Iam probably the worst person to debate when it come to Henne, cause ive lost sight of his ceiling..That has happened because ive lost faith in his legs, and the part of his brain that sends the signals to them..lol....There is an innate type of QB athleticism missing from his game, I believe its imperative to have it to stand up during pressure packed football..

    Tell you what GM, I'll comprimise with you and others...If you promise me a brand new shiny backfield of Mark Ingram and Stanley Havili, I will keep an open mind about a competition..
     
  21. Garryowen

    Garryowen New Member

    1,046
    243
    0
    Nov 26, 2007
    I'm psycic. No...Seriously. Watch this....

    I predict, the next excuse for Henne will beeeeeeeeee.......

    A NEW OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR!

    I know. I'm brilliant. You can give me thanks in lieu of tips.
     
    texanphinatic and gunn34 like this.
  22. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    Friend Garryowen:
    the really funny part of your post is its true,
    there will be those that will never accept the fact
    that Henne had his shot & blew it. he is a bust
    we still have GinnJr. closet-afficiandos on the forum, even as we post

    :cupid:love is blind
     
    gunn34 likes this.
  23. #1 fan

    #1 fan Well-Known Member

    2,161
    558
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    miami
    i say eat the peach, disturb the universe and bench chad henne
     
  24. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Henne did plenty of good things this year. Enough to warrant a chance to stay around and compete. There were a few games when he actually stepped up into a colapsing pocket like he should. So he improved slightly in that area.

    The improvements were not that many but enough to give him another chance.

    My problem with him is the really stupid Int's. Sure every Qb has them at times, and YES, he did not have a running game. But he has to stop throwing into triple coverages OR work on his timing more and for sure, he needs to work on reading the defenses better.
     
  25. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    there you go again...
    having said that
    everyone is entitled to their opinion
    & I would defend your right to express it
    right along with every other closet-afficiando
    no matter how misguided

    it is what it is
     
  26. cobrajet

    cobrajet Mr. Ross - sell the team!

    2,567
    1,033
    0
    Jan 12, 2010

    You are 100% correct, and when I watched Pro-Bowl and all of their INT's I thought to myself: "Gee these guys look like Henne", and guess what - same result. They lost by a few and so did we all last year. I'd keep Henne around because he may develop someday and he's only making $550k, but he must improve on everything that you said. I'd give him one more year under another QB coach and offensive system to compete and if he can't cut it - dump him.
     
  27. krypto

    krypto Banned

    772
    366
    0
    Sep 22, 2009
    Any QB can be made to look good when its nothing but positive highlights.
     
  28. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    And any QB can be made to look bad when he has no running game, an incompetent OC, a banged up OL, and a bunch of hurt/UDFA WRs & TE's.
     
  29. hooserdaddy

    hooserdaddy Season Ticket Holder

    91
    87
    18
    Mar 22, 2008
    what bothers me the most about Henne is that he has ZERO pocket awareness, and when he gets pressure all he does is run (which he can't do) straight forward and is lucky too make the line of scrimmage.

    I'm no expert but I don't see his pocket presence improving much over time.
     
  30. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

    21,755
    3,475
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    Oviedo FL
    I agree 100%

    Most of those guys can't look as bad as henne

    henne is the same as Ginn Jr and J Russel. BUST. Make up all the excuses you want...he sucks.
     
  31. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    In other words, you have no clue what you're talking about, so you just blurt out foolishness. Got ya.
     
  32. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

    21,755
    3,475
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    Oviedo FL
    Take off your henne glasses and watch the game. You'll soon realize what 95% of the rest of the fans do...henne sucks.
     
  33. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

    4,000
    1,873
    113
    Sep 6, 2010
    New Milford, CT
    As a Jets fan, I'd love to tell you I think he sucks. But I'd be lying. Do I think he's great? No. Can he be great? No idea. I do think he deserves a chance to keep the job, assuming training camp is an open competition. I feel that's fair.

    I do agree about the pocket presence critique, but I am not sure if it is something that can't be learned. I never played QB and I honestly have no idea. I know there is a ton of Sanchez hate on this forum, but one of the things I really like about him is his ability to feel the pressure, elllude the sack and make a positive play on the move. His last choice is run. Doesn't always work out, but it did more often than not last year. Now if he could become more accurate, especially on the short dump offs. I can't understand why that is such a problem.

    Anyway, that's my unbiased two cents on Henne. No way does he suck. He deserves one more Henningless shot.
     
  34. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    1,695
    1,237
    113
    May 29, 2009
    Waterloo
    The problem with Penni is that he doesn't last more than 2 plays. this is a 16 game season.
    Penni is done at least Henne can get on the field.
     
  35. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    1,695
    1,237
    113
    May 29, 2009
    Waterloo
    Sanchez with a running game is a different player, Henne with a running game looks good see the Raiders game he killed them but again that was the best running performance of the year.
    How did Flacco and Matt Ryan look without a running game they looked like Henne and Sanchez.
     
  36. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

    4,000
    1,873
    113
    Sep 6, 2010
    New Milford, CT
    It might be worth noting if teams played Miami to take away the run and dared Henne to beat them through the air. If this is the case, it might not be that easy to generate a great running game, no matter who you add to the line and the backfield.
     
  37. Buckeyetroop

    Buckeyetroop Active Member

    437
    157
    43
    Sep 27, 2010
    Can Henne improve in some areas? Yes, i'm sure he can. But there are some areas that he's stuck with. You either have mobility or you don't........he clearly doesn't have much. He has no idea how to buy time in the pocket. His vision appears horrible, whether looking down field or feeling and seeing the rush. He's lost in the pocket. Pocket presence is one of the biggest attributes of a successful QB and his is very poor. Time to turn our attention to a QB who can be successful, whoever it may be.
     
  38. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    Actually, teams were stopping our run game without stacking the box, all year. It was the biggest factor in our offensive woes IMO. We couldn't run consistently, and we were constantly depending on Henne to bail us out, something's he's not ready to do.

    The Jets do a GREAT job of forcing teams into predictable looks, single high zones and man coverage looks where Sanchez can see the field with clarity and still have plenty of time to throw. The Jets do a GREAT job of adding top tier talent at the skill positions to ensure that Sanchez doesn't have to play over his head in order to win games. Hopefully we'll be able to do the same for our QB, whoever that turns out to be.
     
  39. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,679
    4,592
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Good QBs find a way to overcome a team's deficiencies, not use it as an excuse.

    Aaron Rodgers has had no running game and a suspect set of tackles all season. Tom Brady is playing with a group of running backs dragged off the street, rookie TEs and some circus midgets for wideouts. Peyton Manning has elevated his team above a host of injuries on the offensive side. Roethlisburger stepped in after a 4 game suspension and picked up where left off despite a makeshift OL.

    Henne? Collapsed along with the rest of the team.
     
    gunn34 likes this.
  40. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

    14,291
    5,841
    0
    Jan 27, 2010
    LMAO. 95% of fans have never played, coached, or studied organized football and don't know jack sh^t other than wins and losses. Jim Mora has a more articulate explanation:

    [video=youtube;NHipzGL4dwM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHipzGL4dwM[/video]
     

Share This Page