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Hartline wants 5-6 million per season

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Perfectville_USA, Jan 26, 2013.

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  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    James Jones and Jordy Nelson come to mind, immediately.
     
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  2. Patssuck

    Patssuck Well-Known Member

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    He caught more pass and had more yards because Marshall was gone.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    No Armando is not always correct but I think the circumstances and situation point to Marshall's release. He played poorly, got hurt real bad, and they ended up one way or another claiming the guy they had considered signing instead of Marshall, and he played well and has virtually the same contract. One is healthy, one is not. One played well, one did not. I think at this point there's a lot more pointing to keeping Patterson and releasing Marshall than the other way around.
     
  4. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Watch the games and you should be able to see some WRs are better than others in compressed spaces like the red zone, unless you just prefer to be intentionally obtuse.
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He had double the targets. Literally.
     
  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Then you need to go further. Jordy Nelson has never been a free agent, and James Jones has never been as productive as Hartline was this year.
     
  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes, and this says a whole lot more about the inability to have productive secondary receivers with Brandon Marshall than anything.
     
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  8. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Yet his number of yards per target was no different than it was with Marshall present.
     
  9. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    And about double the production. Literally.
     
  10. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    How will I know that what I'm seeing isn't the exception to the rule, or an anomaly in that particular game?
     
  11. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I'd rather have had the Jame Jones productivity of 2012 than that of Hartline.
     
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  12. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Another way to look at this to see if a rookie QB had an effect on Hartline's TD production this year is to go back and look at what Tannehill did in college.

    2011:
    Tannehill: 29 TDs, 531 attempts = TD pass every 18.31 attempts
    Luck: 37 TDs, 404 attempts = TD pass every 10.92 attempts
    RG3: 37 TDs, 402 attempts = TD pass every 10.86 attempts
    Wilson: 33 TDs, 309 attempts = TD pass every 9.36 attempts
    Weeden: 37 TDs, 564 attempts = TD pass every 15.24 attempts

    2008-2010:
    Tannehill: 13 TDs, 243 attempts = TD pass every 18.69 attempts

    Not sure where people get this idea Tannehill is a TD throwing machine and the only problem is not good enough weapons at WR. He had very good weapons at WR in college...Fuller, Swope...Dolphins just signed Fuller to another contract and Swope is being projected to be drafted in round 4.

    Maybe Hartline is more of a playmaker than QBs he has played with have allowed him to be?
     
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  13. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Just the fact that he had back surgery should make his release a consideration. Thats the type of thing that changes the trajectory of a career.
     
  14. Patssuck

    Patssuck Well-Known Member

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    Last three season: Jones -17 Tds Hartline - 3 Tds
     
  15. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Hope? :headscratch: ;)
     
  16. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Last three seasons:

    Hartline: Chad Henne, Matt Moore, Ryan Tannehill.

    Jones: Aaron Rodgers.
     
  17. Patssuck

    Patssuck Well-Known Member

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    Fuller who went from being a possible 1st round pick to being undrafted?
     
  18. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Any idea of how may of the 11 red zone targets Hartline had this year were actually on target in the end zone? I recall a couple early on were throwaways that go down as targets. I am not signed up with game rewind or would check myself.
     
  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Me too*

    James Jones is pretty much a red zone specialist with a quarterback who is going to grossly inflate red zone production. He's not particularly good at moving the chains, nor is he as good as a big play threat as Hartline.


    *(On my fantasy football team)
     
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  20. Patssuck

    Patssuck Well-Known Member

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    So bad production of a wr is always the qb fault. Got it. No accountability for wrs.
     
  21. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't really care about Jones red zone production.
     
  22. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Come on man. We're talking about the difference between who many regard as the best QB in the league (Rodgers), with currently the best QB rating of all time, and two backups (Henne and Moore) and a developmental rookie (Tannehill).

    I hardly think that if you attribute the difference between Hartline and James Jones's TD production to that particular degree of a difference at QB, you're saying wide receivers "aren't accountable" for anything.
     
  23. Desides

    Desides Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Never thought I'd see the day when not just one, but two, Redskins free agency contracts are cited as evidence that something like them should be done. Good luck with that, I hope it works out for you.
     
  24. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing here. :clap:
     
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I do not agree. When you are on a team with so many other good WRs you don't get targeted with the same frequency.
     
  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    :sidelol:



    Is that a D2 school, Marve?
     
  27. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Yes, find a way to blame the Qb instead of Hartline.

    Get him the ball where? He is a decent Wr but Qb is not the main problem here. He's had plenty of chances to score after the Qb delivered him the ball and failed.
     
  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Really? ..... so what do you think he should've had this year with a good QB that you feel better represents his talent? 1300 yards?
     
  29. A fair question but an incomplete one also. Were they thrown away because Hartline lacked the ability to get open or because Tannehill could not make the necesarry throw, or did the line not give him enough protection, etc.....

    How far do you want to take it?
     
  30. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Right, how dare someone blame a rookie QB, when they typically perform so doggone well. :rolleyes:
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Hartline isn't a free agent yet either. And if he signed a contract with the Dolphins tomorrow, he'll never have been one.

    Hartline's production was a function of not having anyone else. James Jones always had to contend with Greg Jennings, Donald Driver and Jordy Nelson, not to mention the tight ends.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If you're allergic to touchdowns, yes...he had double the production. If you like touchdowns, no he didn't.
     
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  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't know. But he had a couple early in the season in the end zone that could've resulted in touchdowns if he'd been a better player. I isolated the pictures of them here on the board.

    And keep in mind wide receivers don't necessarily score the bulk of their touchdowns from inside the red zone. That's why I said the 80 yard touchdown was an anomaly. He can create 30 to 40 yard plays, but only from a certain section of the field where defenses play a certain way, and he generally can't stretch those scores into 60 to 80 yard scores because he doesn't have the speed or tackle-breaking ability. He gets caught from behind, or he fails to break a tackle. From closer to the end zone, say the opponent 40 to 20 yard line, he's easy enough defend that he doesn't score touchdowns there. For example, he averaged 6.9 yards per attempt in that area this year. For his career he averages 17.1 yards per catch on his own end of the field, versus 11.8 yards per catch on the opponent's end of the field.

    He is what he is. He's a Z receiver that gets yardage in the kinds of chunks that you'd expect of a Z receiver, but doesn't have the speed or play making ability to turn those big gains into long touchdowns, nor does he have the ability to be a touchdown threat from inside the red zone.
     
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  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    D8 school. Do you wish to enroll? We denied Shouwrong's application, but I think you may get approved. Just bring 2 of my favorite pizzas. Smoked oysters and pineapple.
     
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  35. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not Camarillo like. Camarillo had Pennington throwing him the ball. Hartline has Tannehill.
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Heh, I've also seen numerous plays where a better throw from THill and it is 6 pts.

    Put yourselves in a GM's shoes and objectively look at Hartline:

    -Started 4 yrs
    -missed few games
    -no real off the field problems
    -26 yrs old
    -first time as the go to Wr and he produced

    5-6 miillie per yr is his market as I've said before, if anything it is a touch low, it should be about 7 millie.

    Something like 4 yrs, 28 million sounds about right for him.
     
  37. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Why in the world would Hartline sign a contract tomorrow???? James Jones and Jordy Nelson are not even close to comparable situations.
     
  38. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Plus Bline avg's 15 ypc, guys like him rarely hit the FA mkt, he has a lot of good factors in his favor.
     
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  39. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    And too bad. I was dying to get in. Figured I would've had a license to steal at that point. :lol: ;)

    Oh and BTW, the "oysters" thing explains a lot. Do you know the mercury content in them things? ;)
     
  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    And this season, Randall Cobb. Hartline wouldn't have a third the number of targets if he were on the Packers, as he had in Miami.
     
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