The offensive line. We all know it is bad right now, albeit hopefully they're just underperforming and not actually this terrible. I didn't expect them to be great, but I didn't expect the run blocking to be so bad either. Anyway, the running narrative (among a few of them) is that we've spent a ton on the OL since Ireland has been here and he still can't get it right in what has now been 6 (off)seasons. I know some people (likely including myself) have said we haven't really drafted an unusually large number of OL or way more high picks than others, but I don't think any of us have actually went out and compared it. I will try and avoid pointing to the change in offensive philosophy as part of the reason for OL performance (or investment), but perhaps it is something to think about (maybe Ireland can't field an OL with the characteristics Philbin looks for). Anyway, I just want to compare the sheer investment in the Dolphins OL vs those of other teams. I will likely have this be a 2 parter (if not more), and simply start with the draft in this part (I will not be evaluating what picks were good or not because I'm not familiar enough with each team, just simply the investment). Note: If there is info in parenthesis following a team, that is reflective of where their OL stands for the 2013 season as of today. Note 2: As of right now I have not included trades into the investments, such as Jason Peters going from Buffalo to Philly a few years ago (that would likely drive the Eagles average pick location up though). Dolphins OL selections since 2008 (top 5 most sacks): 2008 – Jake Long, Rd 1.1 2008 – Shawn Murphy, Rd 4.110 2008 – Donald Thomas, Rd 6.195 2009 – Andrew Gardener, Rd 6.181 2010 – John Jerry, Rd 3.73 2011 – Mike Pouncey, Rd 1.15 2012 – Jonathan Martin, Rd 2.42 2013 – Dallas Thomas, Rd 3.77 Average OL selections per year: 1.33 Average OL selection location: Rd 3.87 Philadelphia OL selections since 2008 (top 5 rush, top 5 most sacks): 2008 – Mike McGlynn, Rd 4.109 2008 – Mike Gibson, Rd 6.184 2008 – King Dunlap, Rd 7.230 2009 – Fenuki Tupou, Rd 5.159 2009 – Paul Fanaika, Rd 7.213 2011 – Danny Watkins, Rd 1.23 2011 – Julian Vandervelde, Rd 5.161 2011 – Jason Kelce, Rd 6.191 2012 – Dennis Kelly, Rd 5.153 2013 – Lane Johnson, Rd 1.4 Average OL selections per year: 1.67 Average OL selection location: Rd 5.143 Seattle OL selections since 2008 (top 5 rush, top 5 most sacks): 2009 – Max Unger, Rd 2.49 2010 – Russell Okung, Rd 1.6 2011 – James Carpenter, Rd 1.25 2011 – John Moffit, Rd 3.75 2013 – Ryan Seymour, Rd 7.220 2013 – Michael Bowie, Rd 7.242 Average OL selections per year: 1 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.103 Buffalo OL selections since 2008 (top 5 rush, top 5 most sacks): 2008 – Demetress Bell, Rd 7.219 2009 – Eric Wood, Rd 1.28 2009 – Andy Levitre, Rd 2.51 2010 – Ed Wang, Rd 5.140 2010 – Kyle Calloway, Rd 7.216 2011 – Chris Hairston, Rd 4.122 2012 – Cordy Glenn, Rd 2.41 2012 – Zebrie Sanders, Rd 5.144 2012 – Mark Asper, Rd 6.178 Average OL selections per year: 1.5 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.127 Indianapolis OL selections since 2008 (top 5 rush): 2008 – Mike Pollak, Rd 2.59 2008 – Steve Justice, Rd 6.201 2008 – Jamey Richard, Rd 7.236 2009 – Jaimie Thomas, Rd 7.236 2010 – Jacques McClendon, Rd 4.129 2011 – Anthony Castonzo, Rd 1.22 2011 – Ben Ijalana, Rd 2.49 2012 – Justin Anderson, Rd 7.208 2013 – Hugh Thornton, Rd 3.86 2013 – Khaled Holmes, Rd 4.121 Average OL selections per year: 1.67 Average OL selection location: Rd 5.135 Green Bay OL selections since 2008 (top 5 rush): 2008 – Josh Sitton, Rd 4.135 2008 – Breno Giacomini, Rd 5.150 2009 – TJ Lang, Rd 4.109 2009 – Jamon Meredith, Rd 5.162 2010 – Bryan Baluga, Rd 1.23 2010 – Marshall Newhouse, Rd 5.169 2011 – Derek Sherrod, Rd 1.32 2011 – Caleb Schlauderaff, Rd 6.179 2012 – Andrew Datko, Rd 7.241 2013 – David Bakhtiari, Rd 4.109 2013 – JC Tretter, Rd 4.122 Average OL selections per year: 1.83 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.130 NY Giants OL selections since 2008 (bottom 5 rush, top 5 most sacks): 2009 – William Beatty, Rd 2.60 2010 – Mitch Petrus, Rd 5.147 2011 – James Brewer, Rd 4.117 2012 – Brandon Mosley, Rd 4.131 2012 – Matt McCants, Rd 6.201 2013 – Justin Pugh, Rd 1.19 2013 – Eric Herman, Rd 7.225 Average OL selections per year: 1.17 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.129 Pittsburgh OL selections since 2008 (bottom 5 rush, top 5 most sacks): 2008 – Tony Hills, Rd 4.130 2009 – Kraig Urbik, Rd 3.79 2009 – AQ Shipley, Rd 7.226 2010 – Maurkice Pouncey, Rd 1.18 2010 – Chris Scott, Rd 5.151 2011 – Marcus Gilbert, Rd 2.63 2011 – Keith Williams, Rd 6.196 2012 – David DeCastro, Rd 1.24 2012 – Mike Adams, Rd 2.56 2012 – Kelvin Beachum, Rd 7.248 Average OL selections per year: 1.67 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.119 Jacksonville OL selections since 2008 (bottom 5 rush, top 5 most sacks): 2009 – Eugene Monroe, Rd 1.8 2009 – Eben Britton, Rd 2.39 2011 – William Rackley, Rd 3.76 2013 – Luke Joeckel, Rd 1.2 Average OL selections per year: .67 Average OL selection location: Rd 1.31 St. Louis OL selections since 2008 (bottom 5 rush): 2008 – John Greco, Rd 3.65 2008 – Roy Schuening, Rd 5.157 2009 – Jason Smith, Rd 1.2 2010 – Rodger Saffold, Rd 2.33 2012 – Rokevious Watkins, Rd 5.150 2013 – Barrett Jones, Rd 4.113 Average OL selections per year: 1 Average OL selection location: Rd 3.87 Cleveland OL selections since 2008 (top 5 most sacks): 2009 – Alex Mack, Rd 1.21 2010 – Shawn Lauvao, Rd 3.92 2011 – Jason Pinkston, Rd 5.150 2012 – Mitchell Schwartz, Rd 2.37 2012 – Ryan Miller, Rd 5.160 2013 – Garrett Gilkey, Rd 7.227 Average OL selections per year: 1 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.114 Oakland OL selections since 2008 (top 5 most sacks): 2010 – Jared Veldheer, Rd 3.69 2010 – Bruce Campbell, Rd 4.106 2011 – Stefen Wisniewski, Rd 2.48 2011 – Joseph Barksdale, Rd 3.92 2012 – Tony Bergstrom, Rd 3.95 2013 – Menelik Watson, Rd 2.42 Average OL selections per year: 1 Average OL selection location: Rd 3.75 Carolina OL selections since 2008 (top 5 most sacks): 2008 – Jeff Otah, Rd 1.19 2008 – Geoff Schwartz, Rd 7.241 2008 – Mackenzy Bernadeau, Rd 7.250 2009 – Duke Robinson, Rd 5.163 2011 – Zachary Williams, Rd 6.203 2011 – Lee Ziemba, Rd 7.244 2012 – Amini Silatolu, Rd 2.40 2013 – Edmund Kugbila, Rd 4.108 Average OL selections per year: 1.33 Average OL selection location: Rd 5.158 Denver OL selections since 2008 (top 5 least sacks): 2008 – Ryan Clady, Rd 1.12 2008 – Kory Lichtensteiger, Rd 4.108 2009 – Seth Olsen, Rd 4.132 2009 – Blake Schlueter, Rd 7.225 2010 – Zane Beadles, Rd 2.45 2010 – JD Walton, Rd 3.80 2010 – Eric Olsen, Rd 6.183 2011 – Orlando Franklin, Rd 2.46 2012 – Philip Blake, Rd 4.108 2013 – Vinston Painter, Rd 6.173 Average OL selections per year: 1.67 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.111 Washington OL selections since 2008 (top 5 least sacks): 2008 – Chad Rinehart, Rd 3.96 2010 – Trent Williams, Rd 1.4 2010 – Eric Cook, Rd 7.229 2010 – Selvish Capers, Rd 7.231 2011 – Maurice hunt, Rd 7.217 2012 – Josh LeRibeus, Rd 3.71 2012 – Adam Gettis, Rd 5.141 2012 – Tom Compton, Rd 6.193 Average OL selections per year: 1.33 Average OL selection location: Rd 5.148 Atlanta OL selections since 2008 (top 5 least sacks): 2008 – Sam Baker, Rd 1.21 2009 – Garrett Reynolds, Rd 5.156 2010 – Mike Johnson, Rd 3.98 2010 – Joe Hawley, Rd 4.117 2011 – Andrew Jackson, Rd 7.210 2012 – Peter Konz, Rd 2.55 2012 – Lamar Holmes, Rd 3.91 Average OL selections per year: 1.17 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.107 San Diego OL selections since 2008 (top 5 least sacks): 2008 – Corey Clark, Rd 7.234 2009 – Louis Vasquez, Rd 3.78 2009 – Tyronne Green, Rd 4.133 2011 – Stephen Schilling, Rd 6.201 2012 – Johnnie Troutman, Rd 5.149 2012 – David Molk, Rd 7.226 2013 – DJ Fluker, Rd 1.11 Average OL selections per year: 1.17 Average OL selection location: Rd 5.147 Detroit OL selections since 2008 (top 5 least sacks): 2008 – Gosder Cherilus, Rd 1.17 2009 – Lydon Murtha, Rd 7.228 2010 – Jason Fox, Rd 4.128 2011 – Johnny Culbreath, Rd 7.209 2012 – Riley Reiff, Rd 1.23 2013 – Larry Warford, Rd 3.65 Average OL selections per year: 1 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.112 New England OL selections since 2008: 2009 – Sebastian Vollmer, Rd 2.58 2009 – Rich Ohrnberger, Rd 4.123 2009 – George Bussey, Rd 5.170 2010 – Ted Larsen, Rd 6.205 2010 – Thomas Welch, Rd 7.208 2011 – Nate Solder, Rd 1.17 2011 – Marcus Cannon, Rd 5.138 Average OL selections per year: 1.17 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.131 NY Jets OL selections since 2008: 2008 – Nate Garner, Rd 7.211 2009 – Matt Slauson, Rd 6.193 2010 – Vlad Ducasse, Rd 2.61 2012 – Robert Grifin, Rd 6.203 2013 – Brian Winters, Rd 3.72 2013 – Oday Aboushi, Rd 5.141 2013 – William Campbell, Rd 6.178 Average OL selections per year: 1.17 Average OL selection location: Rd 5.151 Arizona OL selections since 2008: 2008 – Brandon Keith, Rd 7.225 2009 – Herman Johnson, Rd 5.167 2009 – Trevor Canfield, Rd 7.254 2012 – Bobby Massie, Rd 4.112 2012 - Senio Kelemete, Rd 5.151 2012 – Nate Potter, Rd 7.221 2013 – Jonathan Cooper, Rd 1.7 2013 – Earl Watford, Rd 4.116 Average OL selections per year: 1.33 Average OL selection location: Rd 5.156 Baltimore OL selections since 2008: 2008 – Oniel Cousins, Rd 3.99 2008 – David Hale, Rd 4.133 2009 – Michael Oher, Rd 1.23 2010 – Ramone Harewood, Rd 6.194 2011 – Jah Reid, Rd 3.85 2012 - Kelechi Osemele, Rd 2.60 2012 – Gino Gradkowski, Rd 4.98 2013 – Ricky Wagner, Rd 5.168 2013 – Ryan Jensen, Rd 6.203 Average OL selections per year: 1.5 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.119 Chicago OL selections since 2008: 2008 – Chris Williams, Rd 1.14 2008 – Chester Adams, Rd 7.222 2008 – Kirk Barton, Rd 7.247 2009 – Lance Louis, Rd 7.246 2010 - J'Marcus Webb, Rd 7.218 2011 – Gabe Carimi, Rd 1.29 2013 – Kyle Long, Rd 1.20 2013 – Jordan Mills, Rd 5.163 Average OL selections per year: 1.33 Average OL selection location: Rd 5.145 Cincinnati OL selections since 2008: 2008 – Anthony Collins, Rd 4.112 2009 – Andre Smith, Rd 1.6 2009 – Jonathan Luigs, Rd 4.106 2010 – Otis Hudson, Rd 5.152 2010 – Reggie Stephens, Rd 7.228 2011 – Clint Boling, Rd 4.101 2012 – Kevin Zeitler, Rd 1.27 2013 – Tanner Hawkinson, Rd 5.156 2013 – Reid Fragel, Rd 7.240 2013 – TJ Johnson, Rd 7.251 Average OL selections per year: 1.67 Average OL selection location: Rd 5.138 Dallas OL selections since 2008: 2009 – Robert Brewster, Rd 3.75 2010 – Sam Young, Rd 6.179 2011 – Tyron Smith, Rd 1.9 2011 – David Arkin, Rd 4.110 2011 – Bill Nagy, Rd 7.252 2013 – Travis Frederick, Rd 1.31 Average OL selections per year: 1 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.109 Houston OL selections since 2008: 2008 – Duane Brown, Rd 1.26 2009 – Antoine Caldwell, Rd 3.77 2010 – Shelley Smith, Rd 6.187 2011 – Derek Newton, Rd 7.214 2012 – Brandon Brooks, Rd 3.76 2012 – Ben Jones, Rd 4.99 2012 – Nick Mondek, Rd 6.195 2013 – Brennan Williams, Rd 3.89 2013 – David Quessenberry, Rd 6.176 Average OL selections per year: 1.5 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.127 Kansas City OL selections since 2008: 2008 – Brandon Albert, Rd 1.15 2008 – Barry Richardson, Rd 6.170 2009 – Colin Brown, Rd 5.139 2010 – Jon Asamoah, Rd 3.68 2011 – Rodney Houston, Rd 2.55 2012 – Jeff Allen, Rd 2.44 2012 – Donald Stephenson, Rd 3.74 2013 – Eric Fisher, Rd 1.1 2013 – Eric Kush, Rd 6.170 Average OL selections per year: 1.5 Average OL selection location: Rd 3.82 Minnesota OL selections since 2008: 2008 – John Sullivan, Rd 6.187 2009 – Phil Loadholt, Rd 2.54 2010 – Chris DeGeare, Rd 5.161 2011 – Demarcus Love, Rd 6.168 2011 – Brandon Fusco, Rd 6.172 2012 – Matt Kalil, Rd 1.4 2013 – Jeff Baca, Rd 6.296 2013 – Travis Bond, Rd 7.214 Average OL selections per year: 1.33 Average OL selection location: Rd 5.157 New Orleans OL selections since 2008: 2008 – Carl Nicks, Rd 5.164 2010 – Charles Brown, Rd 2.64 2010 – Matt Tennant, Rd 5.158 2012 – Andrew Tiller, Rd 6.179 2012 – Marcel Jones, Rd 7.234 2013 – Terron Armstead, Rd 3.75 Average OL selections per year: 1 Average OL selection location: Rd 5.146 San Francisco OL selections since 2008: 2008 – Chilo Rachal, Rd 2.39 2008 – Cody Wallace, Rd 4.107 2010 – Anthony Davis, Rd 1.11 2010 – Mike Iupati, Rd 1.17 2011 – Daniel Kilgore, Rd 5.163 2011 – Michael Person, Rd 7.239 2012 – Joe Looney, Rd 4.117 2012 – Jason Slowey, Rd 6.199 2013 – Carter Bykowski, Rd 7.246 Average OL selections per year: 1.5 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.126 Tampa Bay OL selections since 2008: 2008 – Jeremy Zuttah, Rd 3.83 2009 – Xavier Fulton, Rd 5.155 Average OL selections per year: .33 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.119 Tennessee OL selections since 2008: 2009 – Troy Kropog, Rd 4.135 2009 – Ryan Durand, Rd 7.239 2011 – Byron Stingily, Rd 6.175 2013 – Chance Warmack, Rd 1.10 2013 – Brian Schwenke, Rd 4.107 Average OL selections per year: .83 Average OL selection location: Rd 4.133 Ok, my first takeway from all of that is how in the world have the Buccaneers only drafted two OL in the past 6 years? Seriously. My second takeaway is that the Dolphins really aren't outside the norm when it comes to the number of OL selected since Ireland took over. The thing that jumps out though is our average selection location of OL. Only 6 other teams are within like 16 picks (Jaguars, Chiefs, Raiders, Seahawks, Texans and Rams) and only 3 of those are higher or equal (Jaguars, Rams ,and Raiders). It seems to me that a big difference between us and other teams is that we don't have any 7th round selections which would offset our average. Now we're obviously taking OL high because we feel we need to look for people who will be starters, but on face value it does seem like our higher average selection is not paying dividends (27th in rushing in the league, most sacked team).
This would be a major component of the resource argument, though that's more of a local team argument than a "we're spending more than the rest of the NFL" issue. What the rest of the NFL is doing is irrelevant to whether or not positions on the Dolphins are being held back by a lack of resources.
Thanks for the research Stitches. I'm really not sure what or who you're looking to defend though. To me, it really doesn't matter that much if the Dolphins are spending more, less or the same as other teams in draft picks and/or $$$ on the OL. What matters is that this unit is not getting it done. We've now had 2 offensive minded coaches (Sparano's specialty was supposed to be offensive line) and nothing has improved. In fact, things have only gotten worse since 2008. There has been one constant factor over that time span, but I won't travel too far down that road. But this is some great perspective so I hope I don't come off like I'm pooing all over your thread.
Not looking to defend, just looking to get to the bottom of. I see people say we've invested so much into the OL and it is still terrible (I don't think it's always been bad, certainly this year has to be a new low IMO), plus I know it seems that people (at times at least) have said Ireland spends more on OL than other teams. So I was just curious how much have we actually invested compared to others? Obviously the performance sucks, nothing we do here will change that. Maybe we can see how bad it really is based on what we've spent though, or get some perspective as to what we're paying vs what others have since Ireland has been here.
One problem that I don't think this research will account for is player retention. Only speaking for myself, but I don't see a problem with spending picks, specifically high picks on the offensive line. When a team uses a first round pick on a tackle, you usually hear that followed with a statement or sentiment of, "That guy will anchor the (right/left) side of that line for years to come." When you spend that first round pick, but then are unable to retain that player for a 2nd contract that's a problem. Jake Long not being here, with all his faults, is a big reason why the drop off in O-line play has been so drastic. And if you want to make the argument that Jake Long is no good and Jonathan Martin is playing just as good if not better (which I don't buy) then the question becomes more about talent evaluation than player retention. Pick your poison. This line has been poorly assembled. Mistakes in free agency, player retention, and talent evaluation. It's not one mistake, it's a culmination of mistakes in all 3 areas.
This specific thread does not deal with that, you are correct, just like this thread didn't evaluate if the pick itself was good or not. In the next thread/part I want to deal with FA dollars & contract extensions (which would account for player retention; at least the way I look at it, perhaps not how you would). Again, that part may not determine whether contracts are good or not, just simply data accumulation and comparison. We can kind of already tell the line is poorly assembled (as things stand, obviously it could get turned around, though we're likely just hoping for mediocre in such a case). I'm just curious if the $ or picks involved can help show that we're paying an unusual amount for this poorness, or if that we're still spending in line with most teams.
Interesting stats but it does not take into account the dismal record of free agent signings ....Incognito notwithstanding. Who can forget Columbo,Grove and now Clabo . Or will that be analyzed in Part 2 ?
