Heath Evans thinks EVERY one of our draft picks will fail! What!?!

"FanMarino wrote:

Jason Taylor was always highlighted as Bradys nemesis. He always seemed to have problems with the Dolphins Defense no matter what our record was at the time. I give cudos to the likes of Zach Thomas, Marion, Gardener, Bowens, etc but Brady had the proverbial rabbit in headlights when it came to Jason Taylor. This "up the middle" comment is shallow. History of Brady and Dolphins Defense says he was out of his comfort zone in the JT yrs. Brady is a great QB but we are putting in players to potentially match up. Personally i think its a 16 game season and thats it. To have this overhype about the Pats and Brady is shallow. We are talking 2 games! OK to make a statement but if we lose to Pats twice we can still go 14-2. I look at the bigger picture. Beat the Bills and Jets. Thats 4 wins right there.

Was it Jason Taylor who was Brady's nemesis? Or was it the tight coverage on the outsides with Madison/Surtain? Was it Zach Thomas? I know Peyton Manning noted that it was Zach Thomas, not Jason Taylor, that frustrated him the most.

"Muck wrote:

I don't think he's upset at all. Dude played 10 years in the NFL. Made great money, parlayed it into a nice career thereafter. Drew awareness to his foundation which dealt with sexual abuse.

I always wonder, why do non-superstar on-field accomplishments automatically render someone's opinion or analytical acumen moot? By that rationale, he's infinitely more qualified to give opinions on the subject than you or I. Or Bill Belichick.

The answer is it matters only when they say things we disagree with or criticize our team.

I disagree with him, but I have no qualms about what he said. It doesn't come from a Skip Bayless place. Listen to him. He may be wrong, but he's not just throwing **** against the wall.

I partially lay the blame in the studio guys for not throwing any conjecture and counter balance to the interview. They let Evans give his opinion without countering it. Would have made a more interesting podcast if they countered his opinion with another view. It didnt happen.

"vizi0n wrote:

Enter Ireland's logic of signing of more athletic and fast blitzing linebackers like Ellerbe and Wheeler to help shore up pressure in the middle.

Enter Heath Evans' (correct) logic that blitz pressure up the middle is something that guys like Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers and those guys FEAST on, and that when it comes to blitz success you're not getting an upgrade in a 6'1" and 235 lbs Dannell Ellerbe versus a 6'4" and 260 lbs Karlos Dansby who literally runs the same speed despite being a lot bigger.

Do you know what Tom Brady's passer rating in 2012 was when blitzed? He had 128.9 passer rating against the blitz. He had a 85.1 passer rating when NOT blitzed.

The very signing that Evans then went on to blast which to me doesn't make sense. You need pressure up the middle!...But you signed faster blitzing young guys over Dansby which is also wrong! See my point? I think Evans is forgetting about pro bowler DT Randy Starks who has shown ability to get in the other teams back field.

And his point is that you need pressure up the middle that does NOT come from blitzers because when you blitz you give guys like Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers easy pre-snap reads which they make with deadly regularity and precise execution. You make their jobs easy when you blitz up the middle.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Perhaps it is. But then, the Bills had Mario Williams and Mark Anderson rushing the passer the first game they played each other this year, and Brady had a 120.1 passer rating against them. The next game, when the Bills didn't have Mark Anderson, Brady had a 96.0 passer rating.

Similarly, when Brady faced the Broncos in 2012 (Von Miller & Elvis Dumervil) he had a 104.6 passer rating against them.

Similarly, when Brady faced the Rams in 2012 (Chris Long & Robert Quinn) he had a 131.1 passer rating against them.

Similarly, when Brady faced the Colts in 2012 (Robert Mathis & Dwight Freeney) he had a 127.2 passer rating against them.

At what point do we step back and say wait a minute, maybe this guy isn't just blithering hatred at the Dolphins even though he has no reason to hate the Dolphins? At what point do we step back and say...maybe this guy doesn't say things for no reason, and actually has good reasons to say the things he said, even if we ultimately disagree with them?

B/c when add Jordan Wheeler and Ellerbe you've replaced the entire approach, not just added a single players as the Bills have done.

You also add better Cb's, ie Grimes and drafted 3 of them.

And the flipside to Jordan is he not only rushes the passer, he can cover well.

This was apparently lost on Mr Evans.

Dion Jordan was drafted as a Pass Rusher...not a base DE. If he gets 18 sacks he'll go to the Pro-Bowl and win Defensive Rookie of the Year. To state anything other than that is simply ignorant and not worthy of comment no matter how you want to analyze it. Then he goes on to see maybe its the Bill Bellicheck in him...but Bill Bellicheck drafts a 250 lb. situational pass rusher with their first pick. I mean...which one is it? I agree...everyone is entitled their opinion. But to state a guy can be a drafted as a pass rusher and get 18 sacks....is somehow not a success at what he was drafted to do? If a player is successful at what you drafted them to do, they are a success. Point blank. Period. If the New England Patriots had drafted Dion Jordan I promise this would have been a different review.

"Sumlit wrote:

There is also the point that Evans criticizes without offering alternative. It is very easy to criticize something or someone from the outside. However put yourself in the decision making position and perhaps you realize it is not so easy after all.

He expertly avoided going there when he was asked what he would have done differently.

This was like an 8 minute interview. To expect him to lay out a full off season plan would've been ludicrous. It's a cheap shot point to make, IMO.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Perhaps it is. But then, the Bills had Mario Williams and Mark Anderson rushing the passer the first game they played each other this year, and Brady had a 120.1 passer rating against them. The next game, when the Bills didn't have Mark Anderson, Brady had a 96.0 passer rating.

Similarly, when Brady faced the Broncos in 2012 (Von Miller & Elvis Dumervil) he had a 104.6 passer rating against them.

Similarly, when Brady faced the Rams in 2012 (Chris Long & Robert Quinn) he had a 131.1 passer rating against them.

Similarly, when Brady faced the Colts in 2012 (Robert Mathis & Dwight Freeney) he had a 127.2 passer rating against them.

At what point do we step back and say wait a minute, maybe this guy isn't just blithering hatred at the Dolphins even though he has no reason to hate the Dolphins? At what point do we step back and say...maybe this guy doesn't say things for no reason, and actually has good reasons to say the things he said, even if we ultimately disagree with them?

So what would be the alternative then? Draft 2 better rushing DT to replace our 2 still good DT? Would that not be same as signing 2 better rushing LBs to replace our 2 still good LBs?

Do we only plan to get players to stop Brady, without regards to the other 14 teams we face? Or is it that outside rushing is completely futile in the NFL, it does not work against anyone?

Do we also ignore other interviews Evans has made where his stance on Jordan wasn't that he would be a good rusher but a poor everything else, but that Jordan would never be a good NFL rusher? Can we not say that Evans just plainly thinks Jordan will be a bad player?

"ckparrothead wrote:

Perhaps it is. But then, the Bills had Mario Williams and Mark Anderson rushing the passer the first game they played each other this year, and Brady had a 120.1 passer rating against them. The next game, when the Bills didn't have Mark Anderson, Brady had a 96.0 passer rating.

Similarly, when Brady faced the Broncos in 2012 (Von Miller & Elvis Dumervil) he had a 104.6 passer rating against them.

Similarly, when Brady faced the Rams in 2012 (Chris Long & Robert Quinn) he had a 131.1 passer rating against them.

Similarly, when Brady faced the Colts in 2012 (Robert Mathis & Dwight Freeney) he had a 127.2 passer rating against them.

At what point do we step back and say wait a minute, maybe this guy isn't just blithering hatred at the Dolphins even though he has no reason to hate the Dolphins? At what point do we step back and say...maybe this guy doesn't say things for no reason, and actually has good reasons to say the things he said, even if we ultimately disagree with them?

Perhaps New Englands line is just that good to where these guys aren't getting much pressure on him? Not just from the edge but nothing coming from the middle as well? Freeny is old and Mathis isn't quite as good with Freeny well out of his prime. From what I saw in the Rams game not a single one of the Rams DL was even getting a finger nail on Brady and he sat back and enjoyed open field all day long. I don't have all the stat lines but did anyone get pressure on Brady in these games? If the answer is no then the whole point is moot since noone was hitting Tommy.

"ckparrothead wrote:

This was like an 8 minute interview. To expect him to lay out a full off season plan would've been ludicrous. It's a cheap shot point to make, IMO.

If he has time to go on an interview and completely kill every off-season move done by the Dolphins, then i should think it only fair that he save a little time to offer alternative.

A cheap shot was not to do so. Anyone can criticize. To offer viable alternative takes more intelligence.

"Sumlit wrote:

So what would be the alternative then? Draft 2 better rushing DT to replace our 2 still good DT? Would that not be same as signing 2 better rushing LBs to replace our 2 still good LBs?

I think what he would say as to the alternatives are you don't necessarily NEED to focus on just getting better pass rush on Tom Brady, you can build yourself to beat the Patriots (as well as all teams with great quarterbacks) in other ways. His POINT was that Dion Jordan was not a guy you're getting the bang for your buck on, if you're trying to beat Tom Brady (and the other teams with great quarterbacks).

And I think that point stands. Disagree or not, to pretend it's ridiculous only makes the person saying that look ridiculous.

Do we only plan to get players to stop Brady, without regards to the other 14 teams we face? Or is it that outside rushing is completely futile in the NFL, it does not work against anyone?

I think this is a great point. But his rebuttal to that point was also good, when he said that in order to win it all you've got to beat teams led by great passers, and that those teams share similarities in how you'd fight them as do the Patriots.

My rebuttal to THAT would be, but what about teams like the 49ers, Seahawks and Redskins, who all made a lot of noise this post season with styles that differ from the Patriots by a wide margin.

Do we also ignore other interviews Evans has made where his stance on Jordan wasn't that he would be a good rusher but a poor everything else, but that Jordan would never be a good NFL rusher? Can we not say that Evans just plainly thinks Jordan will be a bad player?

Why would we ignore them? He doesn't like Dion Jordan as a player? Is he the only one? Hell no. Is it that out of the ordinary for a fairly high draft pick to have detractors? Hell no. Does it mean they're necessarily wrong? Hell no. I hated Jamarcus Russell and thought that was a poor use of a #1 overall pick. Was I ridiculous for saying so?

I would argue its not inside vs outside pressure with Brady its CONSISTENT pressure like what the giants can apply....you have to screw up his clock like the giants have done and the steelers/ravens have done on occasion...and like the Dolphins used to do when Taylor always seemed to have a "decent" partner in crime.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Was it Jason Taylor who was Brady's nemesis? Or was it the tight coverage on the outsides with Madison/Surtain? Was it Zach Thomas? I know Peyton Manning noted that it was Zach Thomas, not Jason Taylor, that frustrated him the most.

Thats right but we have got Grimes and Taylor at CB. CB moves in the offseason makes alot of sense. Zach was my favourite player, not just for his playmaking but his football knowledge and calling the plays and his leadership. #54 was a bible when it came to football schooling CK. Flat out respected him. My 5yr old Son is called Thomas. Ask Brady and not Manning though and i think Jason Taylor might come up 1st. Evans opinions on outside pressure being irrelevant is bogus imo. Cameron Wake has been the lonely silent assasin for too long. I just think Evans opinions are bordering on disrespectful and bias. Im always balanced but his views were not.

"vizi0n wrote:

Perhaps New Englands line is just that good to where these guys aren't getting much pressure on him? Not just from the edge but nothing coming from the middle as well? Freeny is old and Mathis isn't quite as good with Freeny well out of his prime. From what I saw in the Rams game not a single one of the Rams DL was even getting a finger nail on Brady and he sat back and enjoyed open field all day long. I don't have all the stat lines but did anyone get pressure on Brady in these games? If the answer is no then the whole point is moot since noone was hitting Tommy.

Honest question here...does it matter? Either way, for whatever reason, the New England Patriots' passing attack did not seem too bothered by teams who boasted a duo of EDGE RUSHERS that prior to the year's starting, you'd have thought highly of.

"FanMarino wrote:

Thats right but we have got Grimes and Taylor at CB. CB moves in the offseason makes alot of sense. Zach was my favourite player, not just for his playmaking but his football knowledge and calling the plays and his leadership. #54 was a bible when it came to football schooling CK. Flat out respected him. My 5yr old Son is called Thomas. Ask Brady and not Manning though and i think Jason Taylor might come up 1st. Evans opinions on outside pressure being irrelevant is bogus imo. Cameron Wake has been the lonely silent assasin for too long. I just think Evans opinions are bordering on disrespectful and bias. Im always balanced but his views were not.

Jamar Taylor? The rookie late 2nd rounder? He's a data point? Really? Come on, man.

He wasn't saying that outside pressure is irrelevant, he was saying the Dolphins won't be getting bang for their buck against the Patriots by spending a ton of resources (which they did, a #3 overall is a very valuable resource) on increased edge pressure. Disagree or not, it's a plausible opinion.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Enter Heath Evans' (correct) logic that blitz pressure up the middle is something that guys like Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers and those guys FEAST on, and that when it comes to blitz success you're not getting an upgrade in a 6'1" and 235 lbs Dannell Ellerbe versus a 6'4" and 260 lbs Karlos Dansby who literally runs the same speed despite being a lot bigger.

Do you know what Tom Brady's passer rating in 2012 was when blitzed? He had 128.9 passer rating against the blitz. He had a 85.1 passer rating when NOT blitzed.

And his point is that you need pressure up the middle that does NOT come from blitzers because when you blitz you give guys like Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers easy pre-snap reads which they make with deadly regularity and precise execution. You make their jobs easy when you blitz up the middle.

I understand this but I'm simply saying that for every point Mr. Evans made it seemed like he would follow it with something contradictary. You can't say that you are only going to generate QB pressure simply with your interior defensive lineman like Starks and Solai thats just silly. If you want more pressure straight up the middle your linebackers are going to have to rush the passer some. It just seemed to me he was as said before "throwing **** at the wall" the entire conversation.

You know for sure that Dansby runs the same speed as Ellerbe? Got stats or proof? 40 times do not translate to how they move on the field or in coverage either...

"ckparrothead wrote:

I think what he would say as to the alternatives are you don't necessarily NEED to focus on just getting better pass rush on Tom Brady, you can build yourself to beat the Patriots (as well as all teams with great quarterbacks) in other ways. His POINT was that Dion Jordan was not a guy you're getting the bang for your buck on, if you're trying to beat Tom Brady (and the other teams with great quarterbacks).

And I think that point stands. Disagree or not, to pretend it's ridiculous only makes the person saying that look ridiculous.

Did we not need another rush end? Was that not one of our needs? Is getting better rushing not a very viable way to combat great quarterbacks? If we think Jordan will not bust and live to expectations, then he will most certainly be a weapon against Brady and other great QBs.

I think this is a great point. But his rebuttal to that point was also good, when he said that in order to win it all you've got to beat teams led by great passers, and that those teams share similarities in how you'd fight them as do the Patriots.

My rebuttal to THAT would be, but what about teams like the 49ers, Seahawks and Redskins, who all made a lot of noise this post season with styles that differ from the Patriots by a wide margin.

The thing is, the plan the team followed does address that. On paper they got better at rushing from the edge and from the middle. If you think the players will not live to expectations, that is valid, however that is not what Evans is saying in that interview.

Why would we ignore them? He doesn't like Dion Jordan as a player? Is he the only one? Hell no. Is it that out of the ordinary for a fairly high draft pick to have detractors? Hell no. Does it mean they're necessarily wrong? Hell no. I hated Jamarcus Russell and thought that was a poor use of a #1 overall pick. Was I ridiculous for saying so?

Again, that is not what he is saying in this interview. I believes that is what he thinks, because this is not the first time i've heard him speak about Jordan, and he always has something to nitpick about. However it is relevant because if he believes that Jordan is just plain bad, then his argument of him being good, but not what the Dolphins need to beat Brady, loses validity.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Jamar Taylor? The rookie late 2nd rounder? He's a data point? Really? Come on, man.

He wasn't saying that outside pressure is irrelevant, he was saying the Dolphins won't be getting bang for their buck against the Patriots by spending a ton of resources (which they did, a #3 overall is a very valuable resource) on increased edge pressure. Disagree or not, it's a plausible opinion.

It's a plausible opinion until you say a cat with 18 sacks is a liability. You can not like Dion Jordan for what he is all you want, but don't start talking silly like 18 sacks can just be thrown by the wayside. To me that discredits the majority of your opinion that spews from your mouth. It's like when a cat who usually doesn't tell a good joke tells one...but then starts feeling himself and tells two unfunny jokes after and you gotta stop him. Heath Evans shoulda just said why he didn't like Dion Jordan and stopped.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Honest question here...does it matter? Either way, for whatever reason, the New England Patriots' passing attack did not seem too bothered by teams who boasted a duo of EDGE RUSHERS that prior to the year's starting, you'd have thought highly of.

In our conversation it does matter. If I saw proof that there was pressure coming from the middle without any help from blitzing and it was legitimately working then I'd agree with Evan's stance but I doubt this proof exists. The bottom line is that when Brady is being pressured FROM ALL ANGLES...he gets rattled and frustrated. CONSISTENT pressure all game is the key. The expressions on his face in the games where he is getting hit a lot tells the story. You can pull out all these ratings and stats from a few games last year but I still say the fact of the matter is that trying to say outside pass rush...the thing all teams die to get...isn't as valuable against Brady is just silly. Any pressure is good pressure when your playing against pocket friendly quarterbacks.

Apparently the Patriots are Superbowl winners then. Bets are off. 16 game season? Obviously not.

"ckparrothead wrote:

This was like an 8 minute interview. To expect him to lay out a full off season plan would've been ludicrous. It's a cheap shot point to make, IMO.

He was not asked to lay out a full off season plan he was asked what he would have done differently… He had no answer, he totally ignored the question… period…

"Sumlit wrote:

Someone should drug him up and tattoo "Dolphin Hater" on his humongous forehead. Stupid fool.

Then threaten to release an embarrassing video of him if he looks up tattoo removal sites.

"ckparrothead wrote:

At what point do we step back and say wait a minute, maybe this guy isn't just blithering hatred at the Dolphins even though he has no reason to hate the Dolphins? At what point do we step back and say...maybe this guy doesn't say things for no reason, and actually has good reasons to say the things he said, even if we ultimately disagree with them?

When the subject of the interview agrees with the predetermined viewpoint of the vocal minority, of course.

"Desides wrote:

When the subject of the interview agrees with the predetermined viewpoint of the vocal minority, of course.

I was looking for a cool smiley to put there but this is all I could find... and I've never seen it before.

:train:

"Desides wrote:

When the subject of the interview agrees with the predetermined viewpoint of the vocal minority, of course.

Sun Tzu?

What about he said about Wallace:

"...would anyone had paid Hartline that much? Would anyone else pay Wallace that much? The Steelers have almost insider information and get rid of people ahead of time, Wallace has more ability then Santonio Holmes was traded and he turned into a locker room cancer"

More or less, no transcript available, ie, they overpaid Wallace and the Steelers near prescent "insider information" means they only let him walk due to it.

TBH, dude sounded like he was swimming for things to say, like when Jordan was drafted it set him off..which was odd really.