Bingo. It's just more of this outwork-everyone mentality where working harder is more important than working smarter, and the lack of checks and balances led to this arms race of out-OTA'ing and out-Mini Camping everyone else. I'm glad the players took a good stand against all that stuff in the new CBA.
Superbowl Champions not having offseason workouts also getting 2 starters back from injury? Yeah, probably doesnt mean as much. a 7-9 dolphins team facing adversity from multiple outlets Henne being questioned as the starter from teammates, and faith being lost in the fanbase? Yeah, it means more.
Towers are crumbling because Chad Henne just got voted captain fr the first time in his 7 years as a starting quarterback since High School? Yeesh. Las Vegas beware.
Which shows that the off season workouts are a non-issue and what really matters is whether teams have established leaders, established players and established systems.
Not the point bucko. The point being he's slamming a yearly occasion because of a very transparent reason.
Perhaps the Packers didn't need the offseason workouts because the offense didn't change and was ehem fairly decent to begin with? They also went thru a fairly complete training camp. Can't say that the Dolphins having these workouts wasn't a good thing?
Or if a team is better. They can still go on the field and dominate. You know as well as I do, Henne leading those offseason workouts meant something to the players, giving them a better trust in him, and that means something.
Not trying to sound like an attack, but I thought you were one of the top voices on this board talking about how a new OC and system was going to put the Dolphins and other teams at huge disadvantages going into this year. For the Packers, who just won a Super Bowl and return most of their starts, it was a non-issue, but weren't you the one saying that for a team putting in a new system, the offseason workouts were going to be a big deal?
If being voted a captain is some harbinger of actual success on the field I may have missed that memo.
No the point is that a yearly non-event (the previous years threads have been moderately responded to) has been turned into a huge story by those desperate for any sign that Chad Henne has turned into a good QB and is going to lead the dolphins to a winning season. Perhaps he has and will lead us to a playoof season and I'll be as happy about that as any. but if he does, it will have had nothing to do with being voted a captain
Can't speak for him, but I believe his point is that the off-season player-organized workouts aren't very useful in terms of getting the team to learn the new offense.
He's not saying that at all. He's saying your attempt at being sarcastic fell flat on its face because well you were wrong. And rather then admit so, or just walk away, you stay and fight.
What was I wrong about? I've never commented one way or another regarding Henne being voted a captain or not because I never thought it mattered.
I respectfully disagree with that. The assumption I am making is that Henne and the offense were provided with unofficial playbooks to assist them in their workouts. I don't know if that will ever be admitted to, but if that is indeed the case, how can looking at the plays and running them in their workout be nothing but beneficial?
That this wasn't a yearly event. Look I know where you were going with it, you know where you going with it. You were going to say "hey, you guys think this is a big deal why isn't it always a big deal? you're desperate to make henne look good. " and so on. Only problem is, its posted every year about the captains. So your original premise was wrong.
Ok, so there are threads every year, I was wrong. It looks like in 2008 there was a thread that got 26 replies, 40 in 2010. In short, it's never been that big a deal. Now, because of Henne and all his issues, it's become a big deal.
Hey, you're the guy who's predicted a 12-4 season. I hope you're right but I'd be prepared for dissapointment
How can you mock the number of posts in the past threads, when you've made 8-9 posts already in THIS thread? You're mocking the other threads for not having many posts, while single-handedly making up like 15% of the posts in THIS thread. Your response was #55, take away your responses and the thread is in the 40's - just where you said it should be.
fair enough. I personally feel that someone in a leadership position such as qb, it would be fulfillment of that mandate for your qb to actually be voted as a leader. Do I think he'll be able to sleep with 40 women at once and throw the ball 300 yards accurately all of a sudden, no.
I wasn't mocking the other threads. I only said that this "captain" issue is a bigger deal because of Henne. If you'll notice Phin, the thread on "Who will be the captains" has more than 50 replies, not a single one from me.
Randall Cobb was the receiver who ran the wrong route. Its a big deal for two reasons: We havent had a QB this young get voted captain in a long time. And because every QB has to be voted a captain because the position dictates it. If you cant have the confidence in your QB to vote him as captain, your QB is probably not very good at all and your offense is probably doomed to fail. While it will not alter his onfield results in any way shape or form, it does instill confidence in him that his teammates recognize he is the captain of the ship and if the ship goes down then theyre going down with it.
I'm fairly certain they've admitted to having playbooks. I'm certainly willing to assume they did. I just don't see it as being much of a benefit.
I appreciate your view and suppose you are right. I wonder how many starting QB's are not captains. Regardless, being voted a captain isn't a harbinger of success on the field, that's my only point. Henne hasn't "turned the corner" because of this. He'll have turned the corner when his plays consistently well.
It has an effect certainly. But I believe that any player good enough to make it to the professional level is confident. I don;t think Henne is very good, but I am willing to concede that Henne is likely better at playing QB than I have been at my profession. To make it to the NFL or any pro league takes a talent level, confidence, drive, etc., that simply is not present in most people. If Henne didn't have confidence he wouldn't have made it this far. I don't believe his confidence was shot during the benching or his periods of poor play last year. So no, I dont think this makes a huge difference
Half of the thread is responding to your comment and figuring out if Henne really hadn't been a Captain before.
I think they are overrated for teams like the Packers and Patriots... who were well oiled machines already. For teams like us, who need all the practice we can get because we were already rough around the edges and are also installing a new offensive playbook, I think those practices are quite valuable. For the Super Bowl champs and teams like that, I'd agree though...
There's no comparison between the needs of a team with an established offense, with a basic system they've been running since the 90s, with basically the same personnel for the last four years... and a team with a new offense. There's no comparison in how much better they are. Nobody's arguing with that. But there's also no comparison in the fact that we needed more work than they do to get up to speed. I doubt you would argue that teams that have radically different personnel or a whole new offense probably didn't benefit from having off season workouts.
You made your point and he made his. Time will tell bro. No point in riding someone or rubbing it in.
No, I don't know as well as you do. I think it's going to mean very little in the end when the real bullets are flying. I've been consistent in my belief that those players only activities, league-wide not just with the Dolphins, are like 90% a waste of time. I've also said that one of those organized activities organized and run by like a Tom Brady in an established offense is probably worth 5 of those run by a Chad Henne/Jake Long combo in an unestablished offense with no coaches around. Oh and let's not even address the issue of whether Jake Long's involvement in these activities may have set his knee back. I mean, what could be the harm in having a player decide on his own with no training staff handy that he can go out and participate in pass sets and practice like he would in camp, when his knee is still clearly not healthy? There's no way any of that stuff could have delayed his recovery...
One of Hennes biggest weakness got him benched last year, and that was leadership, and not knowing how to take control of your team, not just to do your job, but to be watching how everyone else is doing theirs..This probably happened because of how and who were his mentors..He was shackled to a degree as a young QB, So him overcoming so much adversity and harsh criticism this offseason and preseason and to come out and look like a different QB and earn the respect of his teammates doing so in the face of those fans, I believe will have tangible affect in his play..Not sure how you don't see that unless your mind is just made up and your not willing to open it.
It's more a talent thing. If you have good players they are likely to play good, even without the off season workputs. Alex Smith organzied the 49ers off season workouts and his teammates raved about him. If the pre-season is any guide, they didn;t help.
