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Henne: Final Drive Comebacks vs. Final Drive INTs

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by GARDENHEAD, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hello friends.

    I must admit that I am flummoxed on this whole Henne thing. He looked like crap last year. He looks pretty good this year, until you actually examine his performance on third downs and in the red zone...you know, the areas that matter.

    Anyway, I'm usually pretty drunk at the end of the 4th quarter, but I seem to remember that this last game had a sort of a familiar feel to it:

    Step 1: We're winning or tied or down by a little bit;
    Step 2: The other team scores;
    Step 3: Our offense needs to score a TD or FG with very little time left. Under two minutes, sometimes under one minute;
    Step 4: Henne throws an INT on 4th and 8...or something like that.

    Can someone more sober and smarter than me please comment on this. Is it just me, or does Henne sure throw a bunch of picks to end the game? I mean, I admit that he's put in some tough, tough situations, but would it be too much to ask him to come up big, even if there's only 40 seconds left in the game??? I'm serious. Is that asking too much.

    Love,
    Gardenhead

    ps- jets suck!
     
  2. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    Well...3 straight games with a pick or incomplete on 4th to finish a game....and this situation in Cleveland was pretty easy by NFL standards. Field position was perfect...he need to get just 10-15 yards..and we had a timeout.

    He wasn't asked to orchestrate "the drive"...just move the ball a little bit...and the pattern early on this year is that he can't do it.

    It sucks to watch, because I'm a huge Henne supporter, but if he ain't gettin' it done..he ain't gettin' it done...
     
  3. jnaledu3

    jnaledu3 Guest

    Henne is a really good backup QB. That is all.

    Until this team gets a real QB, we are spinning our wheels.
     
  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's not Henne's fault. A quarterback should never be put in position to have to perform moderately well in a clutch situation in order to win a game. If that happens you've already failed as a team.
     
  5. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    [​IMG]

    The readings are off the charts :)
     
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  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Two things that Mark Sanchez does that Chad Henne doesn't do:

    1. Mark Sanchez puts the ball in the end zone
    2. Mark Sanchez performs BETTER (though not well) in crucial situations

    I would add that Mark Sanchez performs well in the playoffs, but Chad Henne hasn't had a chance to prove how well he performs in the playoffs, because he's not gotten his team into the playoffs.
     
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  7. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    What prevents Henne from being an elite QB is elite level accuracy. However, the difference between him and Sanchez at this point is the rest of the team, including the play calling. The play calling at the end of games and in the redzone is poor. We don't use our power running game well or with the right players (Bush?). We don't attack the middle of the field with the right players (Bush, Thomas and Fasano/Clay). Henne will never be great in the redzone that's why I've always maintained that we should still be looking for an elite guy, but until that opportunity is available they should have found a receiving TE like the Jets, Ravens and Falcons did. Failing that they should use what they have more effectively. If you watch the end of Jet's games what do they do differently? They primarily use their backs and TEs in the passing game and they run more. They do the same jump ball thing to Plax that we do with Marshall. But that is an occasional attempt, not their only weapon. Daboll has been better than Henning by far on a whole game basis, but in the redzone he has still been poor.
     
  8. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    i dont think in any of those last 4 plays we ran a 3 step drop or a dump off over the middle to a RB. instead you have 5,7 step drops with lineman giving ground all around you. hell a draw by thomas wouldn't have been an awful call. it wouldnt have been any worse with the way he was running and having a TO to use.

    i dont his coaches have really made it easy on chad, but in the end he has to find a way to make the play and he just doesnt
     
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  9. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Especially with how they were defending us. They were primarily covering the sidelines. You hand it to Thomas or Bush on a draw or throw an easy pass to a back or Clay right in the middle of the field and nobody is blaming Henne for not completing low percentage passes late in a game where your OL has been abused by pass rushers all game. I have never claimed that Henne is a franchise QB (or even that he will be), but you can have your QB attempt passes with a high probability of success or a low probability of success and too often this regime has done things that result in putting the QB in low success plays.
     
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  10. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    Seemed like deja vu because yesterday's game reminded me of 2010 all over again. Randy Cross repeatedly mentioned that no Dolphin receivers were open. Since I don't get the angle to confirm I have to take his word for it. Henne using time-outs when it really appears we should not have to do so. Odd play calls in the red zone. The play where Hayden knocked the ball away; did BM round his route off allowing the DB to make that play? Bush fumble right when we are gaining momentum, just like last week with Thomas.

    Why do we not go back to using the plays that are working? What about the big play offense Sparano was talking about? Why did we go back to conservative offense when up by 3?

    Defense? What defense? Undermanned Browns still managed to school them when it mattered most.
     
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  11. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    And looking at the final play, step 4, once again no one is open. Everyone has a DB on their hip and Marhsall might have been the most open of the bunch. The one criticism of Henne, is his unwillingness to extend a play. He has to be willing to accept negative plays to give his receivers the opportunity to break coverage.
     
  12. DFG

    DFG Member

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    1. Chad Henne put the ball into the end zone once and would have again if Brandon Marshall catches the ball in that end zone. I shouldn't blame him though getting his lunch eaten by Joe Haden all day it must have distressed him into error. Who knows how many more times Henne could have got into the end zone as his Right Tackle and guys like Reggie Bush self-destructing kept ending drives?

    2. QBR is a blind stat that should be used to evaluate the entire passing game not only the quarterback's performance. Your focus on the last drive (we didn't even deserve to be there the refs shouldn't have thrown that excessive celebration penalty) to blame Henne only shows your bias. He got us a 16-10 lead in his "bad" second half. Gates and Bess screwed up on first and second down and the offensive line broke down on third. The last play was a poor pass but Brandon didn't even show any interest of even trying to get that ball. Real elite guy there, at least try to make a play. And let's give the Browns some credit.

    3. Where is this good receiving unit we hear about on the Dolphins? Sorry, but Bess has been lousy all year long, and so has Gates, though that's understandable for him only. The tight ends have hardly been reliable too so far.

    4. Cleveland's secondary is one of the most talented in the NFL. You wanted Henne to focus on the backs and and tight ends and avoid the wide receivers. I say we lose by 13 points at least if that were the battle plan. Henne challenged that secondary and won more often than not.

    Deuces :tongue2:
     
  13. arsenal

    arsenal Sunglasses and advil

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    this was a big problem this week for me... when nothing is there, he puts his head down and runs forward (sometimes right into a defender)...

    its like hes so ingrained with the buzzer of how quick hes supposed to get the ball out, he'll never take that risk... id like to see him a few times roll away from some of the pressure and let his guys try to separate, extend the play... some of those times he just took off, he didn't even have much pressure on him... he could have rolled out of the pocket, waited and if no one came free throw it away...

    he did that duck and run multiple times when not necessary...
     
  14. Trowa

    Trowa A world of pain

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    Moderately well is a gross overstatement of what he had to do in that situation. He had to move the ball 10 yards. With 4 tries. And a time out.
     
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  15. Marino1384

    Marino1384 Member

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    I don't blame henne for the last drive bess drops the pass on first down that would of put us in field goal range. I would of passed on first and ran a draw on 2nd or 3rd defense was playing pass spread the field with wide receivers to the outside and run a draw we get atleast 7 to have carp try a 60 yarder
     
  16. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Joe Rose mentioned multiple times on the radio broadcast that the receivers were not getting any seperation.
     
  17. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    With the way things have gone with the Phins Henne will never be more than he currently is,but if he goes somewhere else he will play much better and have his best games against Miami.
     
  18. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Chad the rhino henne.How can possibly find an open receiver in the red zone when you lower your head and charge like a rhino.
     
  19. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    It seems as more time has passed, Henne and this team have gotten WORSE in these situations. His first start against the Jets he orchestrates a beautiful game winning drive, wherein he completed a clutch touch pass to Camarillo on 3rd down, and another bullet on 4th down, to setup the Brown TD Run. Then there was the game against Tampa (after a bad Henne pick, I have to point out) where he slung the ball to Bess for huge gains, setting up the game winning FG as time expired. We also can't forget the clutch drive against the Pats (down quickly 14-0 in that game) where he drove down for another Carpenter FG to take the lead with under a minute to play. THOSE were great comebacks.

    So it's not as if the guy can't, or hasn't effectively lead game winning drives. However, all those games I mentioned were two years ago. Did he forget how to do that? Is it a confidence thing? It's definitely troubling, whatever the reason. I think there a numerous factors involved, many the fault of Henne, some not.
     
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  20. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    The fact that the team had only one time out at that time basically prevented them from running the football in that instance.
     
  21. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Situations. This is the poorest situational team in the league that I have seen to this point. The only time they do well is when they run their base stuff. When you put them in a red zone offense or a two minute drill, these players are like a ball in tall weeds. They are lost. To me, that goes to coaching. These players have not been prepared to score touchdowns in the redzone or play in a hurry up style in the two minute drill. This is even the case defensively. Third and long, they always make a mistake that keeps the drive going. Third and short, you can pretty much bet they are going to do something that gets the opposition a first down.

    Lack of preparation. Poor fundamentals. Poor useage of the talent that is on the roster. Lack of conditioning. These are the four major reasons why a coaching change needs to be made.
     
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  22. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Those things alone could have this team at 2-1 and that's not an exaggeration.
     
  23. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Couldn't agree more.
     
  24. Duss

    Duss Season Ticket Holder

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    Only reason we lost is that we didnt stopp a 4th and 4

    And our big play rb should be getting more yards rushing and receiving than our QB gets running the ball
     
  25. overseas

    overseas 25th Fin-Fan anniversary

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    Could it be that he lost the "feeling" for the redzone during last season, when Henning always pulled the Wildcat out of the sleeve when we hit the 20yard line and Henne had to trott to the bench?
     
  26. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bump!

    We lose another game when our QB throws an INT or incompletion on a 4th down in a comeback opportunity!
     
  27. frozenfin

    frozenfin Well-Known Member

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    This team has no comeback ability, no 2 minute offense, doesnt matter who the qb is. The end of the 2009 colts mnf game was the most ******ed 2 minute offense i ever saw, and chad pennington was taking the snaps in that collapse.
     
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  28. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ya think THAT'S why we lost?
     
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  29. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We lost because we suck. However, even you can see that there is a trend here. We're in most of these games. We have the opportunity to win and we just can't get it done.

    Its all coaching and QB play and its most apparent in these end-of-game drives.
     
  30. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    QBs actually need WRs to get open and make catches. Miami has had one of the worst groups of WRs post Clayton and Duper.
     
  31. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    I'm going to go against my grain here.
    As I said in the gameday thread.... Marshall got screwed on the push off. That was clean and a good play.
    Ron Winter listened to his boys and we got a bad call.
    I guess no one here roots for Brandon to make plays anymore.
     
  32. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Must.... resist... urge.... to snark.....

    No, but in all seriousness, that was a chicken-crap call.
     
  33. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    plenty of plays to make after that point.
     
  34. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    As long as we have the ball, down only 3 after the 2 min warning, there is still a chance to win, yes. However, I wouldn't call a 4th and 23 on our 27 a particularly good opportunity to win. 4th and forever, it was pretty much a desperation just for a 1st. The deck was greatly stacked against us. Even if Marshall had caught it, we still would have been short, unless he broke away for a few RACs.
     
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's funny I was with a friend during the 1pm games yesterday and the Baltimore Ravens got into a situation eerily reminiscent of the Cleveland situation this year. We were talking about it. Cleveland, due to some sloppy play, penalty, etc...allowed the Dolphins the ball in their own territory with a chance to move the football a mere 10 yards to get within Dan Carpenter's range to win the game. The Cardinals allowed the Ravens to do the same thing, Joe Flacco just needed 10 or 15 yards and that would be it. So I'm turning to my buddy and saying yesterday, here comes the Chad Henne test.

    The Ravens moved the ball like 30+ yards to the door step of the end zone for a chip shot field goal. Joe Flacco passed the Chad Henne test, unlike Chad Henne.

    And incidentally, Billy Cundiff passed the Olindo Mare test, unlike Olindo Mare.
     
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  36. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    DeDolphan, that's not the point. The point is this: in almost all our games this year, the offense got the ball back with just a few minutes left and an opportunity to tie/win the game. Every time, we turned the ball over via downs or a pick.

    Bad coaching and QB play. Both of which we are guaranteed a change for next year.
     
  37. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I know what you're saying and with that told, how many games might we have won if the D hadn't failed us in the 4th qtrs? Point is that we suck all over and around. If it's not 1 thing it is 100.
     
  38. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Hah, he missed one for the Panthers that cost them this week. Shannon Sharpe of all people was ragging on him pretty hard during the post game, saying how Marino would probably have a few more wins or something to that effect.
     
  39. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    Pete Stoyanovich vs. San Diego?
     

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