Henne has improved..but

Exactly. It's just a knowledge and experience thing that let's you know what you're looking at.

When I watch baseball with my gf, and a guy swings early on a breaking ball or changeup, I'll say "Damn, he swung too early." and she's like "What do you mean? How can you know that??"

To me it's obvious because of 1) visual evidence 2) my understanding of the game lets me interpret what I'm seeing.. I understand the slower pitch has thrown off his timing because of the previous fastball.

Similarly, in football, you can see 'windows' opening in the defense... and closing again. And if you miss your timing window they are gone.

Similarly if you know a lot of football (more than me. lol.) you can tell what a WR's route is and when their 'break' happens, and when the ball "should" be deliverted to them for maximal success on that route. When that ball arrives early or late relative to the norm for that route or defense, it's fair to say there is a 'timing' issue.

Rafael, in my opinion, having seen his posts over the years, has demonstrated a really thorough understanding of the game of football and I believe he uderstands this stuff when he is looking at it. He also rarely gets emotionally attached in the positions he argues, so it's not like he clings to his argument just to protect his ego. Usually it's based on well thought through information and objective facts. I don;t think he honestly cares which way any of these issues breaks, he's just reporting it as he sees it, honestly and dispassionately. Non homer. Also not a sinking-ship worrywart.

I put an awful lot of stock in his analysis.

 

And, for the record, Finascious D, I'm not saying you don;t know football or anything. Hell, half the time I have no clue what the play call or defensive coverage was.

I'm just saying that it's an acquired skill from watching TONS of football, which Rafaell has and does.

If I went to the ballet I'd have no damned idea what I was looking at, other than girls asses in tights. lol. But if I went often enough I'd start to notice stuff I didn't notice initially. (like their boobs.) lol.

 

Nope! I said if a play is throw within 2 seconds, which was one of your questions to me, and I clearly said if that is one case, it's even easier to see but that has nothing to do with holding the ball to long unless the target is left alone and the throw comes in with the defender. BUT in any case, a throw, thrown that fast, it is easy to see route and Qb.

You might want to go back and see where I stated unless he moves up in, and or out of, the pocket to buy time. That would be a solid play by the Qb if he did.

So yeah, in the other cases, the outcome does not HAVE to matter and I can gaurantee you that his coaches will point it out to him because timed routes are designed to get the ball to the target on time so the target MIGHT gain more yards, or be an easier throw/completion.

Chad Henne does not do that nearly enough! That's the point and its a fact. He was looking dead in the eyes of a blitz on Sunday, and he just stood there and took the hit. He needs a lot of improvement on his pocket presence because for one, he is not very mobile, and two he does not side step to get out of trouble very well and he tends to hold onto the ball too long.

Just because he had no int's, and led some scoring drives, it does not mean he did fantastic and by no means am I saying he is bad or was. I thought he played within himself fairly well but it does not mean, I won't critique the man. If I see something I think he can improve upon, I'll point it out.

 

I learned to see things like this from being at the games for over 30 yrs, and it was rather easy to transfer it to the TV broadcasts. I'm surely not always right but when I THINK I see it 3-4-5 times in a game, for more than a few games, I know I'm right somewhere and not just guessing.

 

14 starts...the man only has 14 starts...I'd be surprised if the game has slowed down for him at all. It takes time to develop a guy...can we stop being so impatient?

 

Right.

People forget these guys are human. The whole, "Oh, but he's a PRO, he'd only do the right thing." belief in these guys overlooks their human flaws.

Like any person, they have good and bad days at work. Ego can get in the way, and other human emotions.

I just watched an ESPN piece again where Jon Gruden broke down film with Colt McCoy and Gruden asked McCoy why he threw to the WRONG guy on a read instead of the guy he KNEW he was supposed to go to and who was open. Gruden said, "Isn't that your buddy Shipley?" and McCoy said, "Yeah, that's the problem! I got attracted to him!" and he said he shoulda thrown to the correct read.

The point is, a player is a person. Henne very well might do significantly better if he wore glasses, but not want to wear them just out of ego, as you point out.

Man, it's like this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa0v08XY2G8&feature=related

 

Absolutely and the reason is? Because the timing is more about when MOST pass rushes are expected reach the Qb. Not when the target is at it's mark.

 

He needs to do it soon because it's not us that are the MOST impatient. It's his coaches.

I like his game now a hell of a lot more than I did when he was at MIIIIIIIICHIGAN.

 

Who says the coaches are impatient? Have you heard that from any of the coaches in their press conferences? Other than that story about a source from a source that overheard Parcells say something or maybe he didn't, I have never heard that they are growing impatient with him.

If they are, then they should get ready to keep drafting and dumping QBs after 3 years, because very rarely does a QB blossom until his 3 season worth of starts.

 

When I saw Raf join a while back I made sure I said hi and welcomed him. He and I had not always seen eye to eye but he makes his cases and makes them well. I respect that big time. Don't sell yourself short though. As much stock as you have in his, or anyone elses analiysis, make sure you keep the same type confidence in yourself. You do just fine as does Finascious D. He is doing a very good job defending his side. We just happen to see it different.

 

Oh no, I have not herd a thing. Did not mean to imply that. What I have seen though, is that they've been willing to cut high draft picks, cut high priced FA's so that means they are not waiting long for players to produce....to me anyway.

 

no more excuses. Henne has been groomed & prepared & given all the weapons to be successful. he needs to step up or step down. Minnesota is the right game @ the right time to prove his metal... no more excuses

 

gotcha..I thought you heard/read something and I had a finger on my panic switch

I think what we've seen with those cuts are vets that had high dollar deals they weren't living up to, or young guys that really showed nothing at all (Turner, White, etc.).

With Henne, we've seen a guy for his first 14 starts that looks like he can certainly play at this level. His numbers are decent if unspectacular.

As far as us fans go, we were just spoiled with Marino and how he was so good so fast. That happens in the NFL where a QB kicks off like that maybe once every 15~20 years.

And after the line of losers we've had since him, we've become so impatient that we want him to be a 28TD/10INT guy RIGHT NOW, where it's probably more likely that he'll closer to what Flacco and Ryan were their first 14+ starts.

 

if he was a Flacco or Ryan there will be no problem in his 15th start. it's time to step up against the Vikings...
only the owner is looking for the second coming of Marino, to be as good as Flacco or Ryan would be just fine
please, no more excuses, just step up & deliver, we need to win this game against the Vikings this Sunday

 

Problem is, watching the game on TV, you can't see if the WR's are open or not.

And sometimes when the QB starts to throw, the CB on the other side drops off and everyone than looks after the play and says, look, he was wide open, when in fact he was not.

 

Oh, I agree. We ALL have valuable insights here!

That's why I love discussing stuff here! I learn from y'all. And occasionally teach y'all something too. lol.

 

Agree that we expect too much of Henne. Or hoped anyways.

As for the vets, this bolded part is true, imo, expect when you talk about Charles Grant, who looked GREAT in preseason. I really can't imagine Dotson having an impact vs the Vikings, whereas Grant would, imo, have had a chance to make an impact play rotationally once the Vikes line was tired.

 

Thank you! I always try to force myself to be objective or at least realize when I'm not.

And you're correct in that I don't usually care about how the issue breaks. I've never been a person who cared if others thought I was smart or not. I have my own independent opinion about my own intelligence and I find that I've been both smart and idiotic at various times. What I do love to see in a thread is new information (new to me) or a new way of looking at something. I guess I feel that the more I learn the more hope I have of minimizing the times I'm an idiot.

 

The general rule is that the game slows down after about a thousand in game passes. Obviously, it will vary for individual players, but its a good guideline. Henne should be close to that mark by the end of this season. IIRC he had about 450 attempts going into the year.

 

what an idiotic thing to say.

 

We aren't discussing the same thing. A scout can and does time that sort of thing on the practice field or with team footage, using stopwatches.

What I'm talking about, is a casual fan watching the game on broadcast TV at home, without a stopwatch, proclaiming definitively, that a QB held the ball a 1/2 second too long. And then saying that he did that too much in a game that didn't result in a lot of sacks that were his fault, or turnovers, or even a lot of incompletions to gauge it by. I'm sorry, but that isn't really possible, because based on the limited view of the footage available and the lack of a device to keep the time and the relatively positive results from most of the plays. This isn't David Carr we're talking about.

 

I'm not telling anyone to give up watching sports.

All I'm saying is to believe you ("you" in general not you specifically BPK) definitively know, if a QB is holding onto the ball a 1/2 second too long while watching tv footage, without a stopwatch, when most of the throws in that game were successful, is not realistic.

 

I think you're replying to these posts about a half second late....

 

A scout doesn't usually use a stop watch except for timing the 40 or shuttle runs, etc. In fact, its rare that they use it for that purpose (timing the QB drops). They usually just rely on their eyes.

And I disagree, that a casual fan couldn't do what you say. I know for a fact that its possible. I've done it myself and later seen somebody breakdown the same game on the coaches tape and arrive at the same conclusion.