Henne was pleased no QB was drafted.

Ok, gotchya now. I can understand all that. The end of the season definitely was a downward spiral, so I can see your rationale behind that. That's the kind of "if" that I was referring to in my previous post that deserves more merit. Whether or not there truly were extenuating circumstances leading to that "spiral" won't IMO be apparent until the first half of 2011 if Chad's the starting QB.
My stance is: Despite a poor end of season showing, I think it's plausible that extenuating circumstances did exist, so I'd like to see him one more time in a more favorable setting before I pass ultimate judgement considering he was predicted by many to have a breakout 2010 season and potentially even become a pro bowler.

I lean more to "Marshall being a huge boom for him" IF we had kept Ginn and Camarillo. IMO ditching those 2 and adding Marshall somewhat washed each other out on an effectiveness level since the fill-ins were of practice squad caliber. All in all, I think the receiving units were close to on par, if not 2010 being slightly under thanks to all the injuries and no depth at TE or WR to go along with little outlet help.

I believe the lack of ground game and the resulting excessive 3rd and longs made 2010 tougher on a young QB than 2009.

IMO special teams had a negative impact on our QB compared to 2009 when it went from winning a game or 2 for us in 2009 to suddenly costing us games in 2010.
I also can't blame a player for opportunities he never have (IE: inside FG range when excessive runs and WC plays are called).

I'm not sure of the stats, but I have a hard time believing there were as few dropped INTs in 2009 as there were 2010........ and the 2nd half of 2009 wasn't played with a bum knee (not making excuses, rather saying there could be more to it than meets the eye).

The protection as a whole might not have been worse; however during the last 6 games or so, the O-line allowed the equivalent of 52 sacks during a 16 game season, which coincidentally is when the "spiral" occurred.

Our starting field position worsened from 09 to 10....... however, despite everything, our punting per drive percentage actually improved from 0.421 (ranked 20th) in 2009 to 0.401 (11th) in 2010. With a horrible ground game in 2010, someone had to be responsible for this improvement.

Basically I look at it as: the ground game was much worse in 2010, however we moved the ball down the field better than we did in 2009 (hence the lower punt %age), so in my eyes, Henne actually helped us by over-compensating for the ground game's lack of success. IMO, what ensued after that was Henning often taking the ball out of his QB's hands because he didn't want to risk losing his precious 3 points. Henning and the ineffective ground game basically put him in more situations to throw INTs and less situations to throw TDs. This lack of opportunity IMO also led to a lack of opportunity for Henne's growth, where as teams like Atlanta & StLouis were providing Ryan & Bradford with every opportunity they could get within reason.

I'm not trying to spin it to where I think Chad would've had an all-world season or anything because his lack of experience and facing different coverages would've still caused problems; however, I do believe he played better than his stats suggest.

 

I'm sorry but that's entirely different than any fan (who has little knowledge of a draft's QBs) ascertaining that any QB in the draft would be better than Henne simply because said player was regarded highly in 2011.

 

I respectfully disagree. That 2007 team was not nearly as bad as some of the other 1 win or winless teams. The new regime would not have been able to win as many games as they did the next year, if they were as bad as their record. Please acknowledge that the team lost at least 6 games of less than 3 points. Other 1 win teams, most in fact have not done that, but lost by more than 20 multiple times. I will forever champion that 2007 as not as bad as the record. They were bad, but not 1 win bad - they deserved better.

 

Excellent point.

 

And Chad Henne didn't leave a lot of plays on the field ? All those late game INT's ? Yet you are willing to throw Ronnie Brown under the bus ? Incredible.

 

Ronnie brown was a major factor in creating the perception that Henne deserved to be benched.

 

That had nothing to do with the messed up OLine at all ? None of RB's problems were their fault ? The OLine our supposed OLine Guru messed with, that the year before was rated a top 10 unit ? None of the fault lay there at all ? Its all on RB.......Wow I missed all of that

 

There's no doubt that our interior o-line play contributed to the ineptitude of our ground game, but that doesn't excuse both Ronnie and Ricky from their play last season. Ronnie only seemed to have a decent burst in his step for a few quarters the entire season. To me, it really seemed as though the athleticism we had previously seen was not as there in 2010. But it's also fair to acknowledge that the problem was also his vision. With the offensive line not creating holes for him, he lacked the vision and instincts to make something out of nothing. Either way though, that's on him as much as it's on the offensive line. Good runners should make even poor offensive lines look good on occasion.

 

please reread my post because you read it wrong.

 

who's arguing, both were below par in running and run blocking...

The signings of grove and smiley were mistakes in hindsight because of injury, we got delayed there bigtime..

 

And I don't see the need to transfigure someone's opinion in order to disagree with it. It's the kind of thing that results in the antagonism that got a bunch of posts in this thread edited/deleted.

 

http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=715783-dolphins-chad-henne-looking-to-limit-turnovers

 

You could, however comparing the move a running back has to make to play in an NFL offense to that which a Rook Qb has to make to play in an NFL offense is rather an odd proposition don't you think?

 

I applaud your ability to view such a bad team in a positive light but I can't agree. If you are bad you just find ways to lose games and that's what the 2007 team did. They probably deserved better but again record isn't always reflective of effort. I always feel your record is what the standings say it is bud.

 

Tampa Bay alone has probably fielded five teams worse than the 07 Dolphins.

The NFL is designed for parity and for relatively quick turnarounds. By relatively quick I mean three to four years. There's really no reason at all it should take longer than that. I mean a bad MLB franchise with a good farm system can probably be competitive in four years or so. And developing baseball players takes much longer. We're not talking about the third year ending with a mediocre record but a team trending upward. We're talking about a third year that ended with poor performance after poor performance. Capped by a grand finale of a team quitting on their coach and getting humiliated by backups. By a team we're supposedly going to catch some time in the near future? We're talking about a third year that ended with major offensive coaching shakeups. Year four and we have to start a brand new offense. We're going into year four with no franchise QB. We can post pages and pages of statistics about Chad Henne being a victim of circumstance but we're fools if we think we KNOW he'll get better. I'm surprised that people are suggesting that 2007 had something to do with all of that, all of those things that happened in 2010.

 

They had enough talent to be better than 1-15. I think that's the point trying to be made. The coaching was very bad. That's not something that factors into rebuilding. But player talent does. If they were that historically awful from a talent standpoint there would have been no way we would have won the division, even with the easiest of schedules, with many of the same players returning.

 

You say 3 to 4 years like the 4th year means nothing, no big deal, ''just get it done in 3''..because.....It does mean something..

With the the starting point of this franchise being 1 and 15, with what we had, I would think this was a 4 year plan from the get..

 

DJ, as pointed out in muscle979's post, they are finally doing things that should have been done in year 1 or 2. The new offense for one. If your plan had been great from the beginning why are you having to scrap the old offense for a new one in year 4 ? Shouldn't you already have most of your foundation and franchise QB to build around by then ? I think that is why some of us are so dismayed and have gloom about the immediate future. Because we don't see that this regime has really done the work necessary on the offensive side of the ball to compete in the near future. The window that our defense will be really good, could close sooner than you think, and we'll have missed our chance because the offense and defense are never good at the same time.

 

because the coach had to inherit the vision of someone else, and if you see some qualities in that coach that are interesting long term,than you take into account certain varibles...Your gonna make some mistakes when rebuilding, but having a winning record in the process shows toughness and some very good decision making.

 

Oh I agree the coaching was bad because you cant be 1 TD from winless if your team doesnt all around stink. And we did in 2007.

But we did not have many players left from 07 on the 08 team as far as starters or big contributors go. It was a huge overhaul that offseason..the only big contributors/starters left from 2007 into 2008 were:

Ronnie
RW
Carey
Cammy
Ginn
Porter
Soliai
Will Allen
Bell

And for perspective only Carey, Bell, Allen and Soliai will be left from that team just 3 full years later when camp eventually starts. By comparison, the Detroit Lions who were the team picking #1 overall after their 2-14 2008 season have almost as many players then that left from their 2008 roster now (8) then we did even entering the next camp in 2008 (9). Our 2007 team was one of the 10 worst teams in NFL history imo from the coaching down to the players:

Drew Stanton
Maurice Morris
Megatron
Gosder Cherilus
Jeff Backus
Stephen Peterman
Dominic Raiola
Cliff Avril

 

Yes, I really watched the game. Did you? The score was 17-14 with 7 minutes to go. Carpenter missed the tying field goal with about 2 minutes to go. He missed 3 other FGs before that, 2 from makable distance. Granted the 61 yd attempt a few seconds before half time was pretty tough. We had more first downs, 22-16, we had more total yards, 326-282. While we lost the game, we did not get dominated. It is just another example of your negative hyperbole putting down the team you claim to love. I guess you believe in tough love huh?
I'll bet you can't get even one other person here to agree we were dominated by the Bills in that game.

 

How did you come to assume I compare Henne to Aikman? Henne has yet to prove he is on that level. He still could though, and to give up on him now would be very shortsighted. Did you know Aikman's QB rating the first two seasons he started was 55 and 66? That's why JJ drafted Steve Walsh, because he wasn't sold on Aikman at that point. You say you judge QBs by TD/INT ratio, well his first two seasons starting, Aikman had 9 TDs and 18 ints, followed by 11 TDs and 18 ints. If we had Aikman right now as a 25 yr old going into his 3rd yr as a starter, you'd be gnashing your teeth and wringing your hands and wailing lamentations that he was no good and never will be. I'm sure you wouldn't be alone. There was actual debate amongst fans on which QB the Boys should keep between Aikman and Walsh. History has shown they made the right choice.

 

You are correct. I apologize for that.

You do need to relax a little though. Keep worrying about the team like you seem to be lately, you are going to give yourself an ulcer. No I'm not a doctor, though I did play one with the neighbor girls when I was a kid. hehehe.

Good luck with your commercial enterprise.

 

I'd be very surprised if Drew told any of his FA clients to steer clear of Miami. FAs are going to sign with whichever team offers the most guaranteed money, nearly every time. Our coaching staff is on no more tenuous footing than half the staffs in the league IMO.

 

IMO, the weakest position on the 2007 team was the coaching staff, led by CamCam, who while being a crackerjack as a OC is a terrible head coach. I wonder how many 2007 opening day starters, also started on the 2008 team? I'd say 11-12. That indicates to me that the 2007 team was more devoid of leadership than it was of actual talent.

 

Good one!
I played Batman & Joker myself, with the girl's hand being Batman, my hand being Joker...... and when Joker attacked Batman, his objective became making it back to the Batcave----- inside my pants. Keep this between us b/c I've never told anyone before.

 

Lots of "if"'s in there. On the other hand one could say, what if Henne turns out to be a solid NFL starter and what if Mallett and/or Dalton never amount to a hill of beans in the NFL? Or at the best, no better than Henne? Anyone here can pretend that isn't possible, but fact of the matter is, not one single person knows for sure until it plays out.
If, ifs and buts were candies and nuts, we'd all have a merry xmas.

 

No, because at RB it's a different situation. Teams rotate RBs a lot, they get dinged up or worse, a lot, starter quality depth there is needed because they will likely see the field for significant snaps in every game they are healthy.

 

Difference being, nobody here, at least not me, pretended that the scenario you laid out is not possible. You're certainly not going to see me put forth the notion that it's ridiculous to even contemplate the scenario where Chad Henne succeeds where those others failed. However, there have been those that DID put forth the notion that it's ridiculous to contemplate scenarios where those others do succeed where Chad Henne fails.

 

I don't really like defending Henne with his Int's because some of them were bad decisions but to be fair there were more than a few Int's last year that were just not his fault, and in defending him, his statistics are not horrible, and can be argued by some, to be good, and slightly improved from his first year of starts.

Troy Aikman 26 starts 20 Td's 36 Int's
Bart Starr did not have a better Td to Int ratio until after his 6th season. Tarkention not until after 28 starts. Bledsoe not until after his 3rd season (44 starts).

I so see you're a passionate fan of the Dolphins but would also add that most people here are as passionate as you are! Truely!

Like I said though, I do not agree with all of your points. I'm not sold one bit on Sparano but what I do like about him is the style of football he likes to play. I am not sold on Chad Henne, but he is not terrible, and has shown flashes of being excellent which tells me since there has not been a ton of other options for them, I'd like to see him compete for the starters job again next season. I really like some of the things Ireland has done but he's also made a few head scratching decisions as well so I'm willing (not like we have much choice) to give them all another season to make a big improvement or fail alltogether...

 

That sure seems to be the mindset of a good many fans. That is what I find disheartening. I even had some dude on facebook tell me the Dolphins should trade for Kolb, that he would be the final piece to the puzzle. I asked him what Kolb had ever done to show he is any better or even as good as Henne? He gave me the standard, "oh you can just tell from watching him" response. I got a few people who actually agreed with me, so he let it drop.

 

Sorry man but the bolded section is just pure hogwash!!

 

He didn't have a better running game and he did not have a true deep threat.

 

Ricky was still able to gain over the 4 ypc threshold even behind a line that was beaten up, piece meal and makeshift for a good number of games, yet Ronnie ran like he was wearing blinders most of the time, no peripheral vision at all. Just lower his head and plow straight ahead.

 

This is what I don't understand. It seems like transfiguring someone's opinion in this fashion is the way people have chosen to argue, perhaps out of laziness, but certainly to avoid acknowledging that other people have valid, differing opinions. I don't like Kevin Kolb as an option, but there have been a good deal of football minds that have gone on record about his value in this league. Guys like Ron Wolf, and whichever teams are bidding up his price tag to where the current word on the street is he'll be traded for more than 1st round pick. Obviously a great many people disagree with yours and my opinion on Kevin Kolb. But is there an acknowledgment of the validity of that differing opinion? No. Instead you use it as an example of some guy whom you say "wants a QB, any QB at all, just for the sake of it not being Chad Henne". So a guy on Facebook likes a quarterback that is being priced by the market at more than a 1st round pick, a quarterback that very well-respected Head Coach Andy Reid decided would be the future of his franchise until Mike Vick went wild on the field. Big whoop. You've got to pretend this is just absurd? Evidence of people who have totally irrational opinions and want any QB other than Chad Henne?

This is exactly what has been wrong with this board for the past few months. No tolerance whatsoever for differing opinions. No acknowledgment of the validity of differing opinions, just chiding and pretending they're absolutely preposterous (even though the bulk of NFL decision-makers seem to agree with them and not you). I mean, come on.

 

I applaud your creativity even at such a young age. Your secret is safe with me.

 

Yeah, I just don't get how fans will take the good performances from other QBs and use that for their basis of wanting them despite completely ignoring all the bad....... and then do a complete 180 with Henne by taking only the bad.

Kolb for instance had more terrible games than good ones in my eyes; if Miami fans saw EVERY one of his games, they wouldn't want to have anything to do with him over Henne; however, they hear about 1 or 2 isolated great games via Sports Center, and all of a sudden he's the answer.

 

People can make excuses for a lot of stuff, but there was no making excuses for Ronnie's embarrassing 2010. His vision sucked; his burst sucked; he sucked as an outlet backed. He turned into one big sucky suck.

 

Sorry, I never read or heard where Wolf said Kolb was worth a 1st or better.

As for tolerance, IMO, the people who support giving Henne more time, show as much as those who wanted us to draft a QB in the first because any of them we could have had a reasonable chance to get would be better than Henne. YMMV.

 

I respectfully disagree. There are different opinions, and then there are ignorant opinions or ones backed by little to no supporting argument that sound more like hyperbole than rational belief. If anything has been wrong with this board, it's been fans excessively throwing around their opinion as fact as if they're too good to provide any meat and potatoes to back it up.


You of all people should relate to this b/c you'll spend and hour or more at times researching and gathering your case to support an opinion or belief. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a differing opinion if it's a respectable one, one that's at least occasionally supported by substance. Your opinion differs from mine at times, but I have tremendous respect for yours b/c of the effort you put into supporting them.

If more members attempted 1/10th your effort, the tolerance level would increase drastically.

On the flip side, you should be able to relate to me when I objectively spend hours creating a thread, only to have some idiot say "you're just making excuses b/c you're a Henne lover wa wa wa" and then not give ANY rebuttal whatsoever to support their insulting post. Where's the distinction there? If someone wants to insult my opinion, have at it, but at least have the respect and decency to rationalize the insult.