Well, Pennington never had a line this good, or receivers this good.

 

The mind that alters, alters all.

 

so personnell have nothing to do with football. games are won by coaches alone :lol:

 

Actually thats a pretty darn good explanation as to why the Pats are 6-2 since not ONE of their veterans are actually playing better then last year according to Pro Football Focus. It is apparently all coaching. And to clarify, by veterans that includes every single starter, nickle back, top reserve linemen, etc. Not a single player playing better then last year, in the leagues hardest division, and they are 6-2. When you have a flat out terrible defense and a bottom 5 pass defense even with Devin McCourtey playing like a stellar vet, it really must be coaching!

Adam, we agree on a lot of stuff but in this case Todds explanation holds a lot of validity in my opinion. This offense stinks. I have tried to support Henning as long as I could but he is flat out holding this team back more then any single other part of the team. :yes:

 

What I'll say is that people don't mind under performance if you still win. Now how much is on who is a whole different story. Too much personnel wise has changed to make an accurate comparison between Henne and Pennington with Henning as OC but it's now time where we see who has the goods.

For the Henne supporters, give credit where credit is do. For the Pennington supporters, don't get blinded. If we win on the running game or Defense, don't shout ah-ha! Both sides note whether a good play or a bad play would have been made by Henne before he was benched. Note changes is scheme, playcalling, adjustments, and game planning. This change is much to serious for someone with a Pennington induced boner to give a BS reason for a win like "rallying the offense with leadership" and certainly people with Henne induced boners shouldn't give undue criticism like "he almost didn't even make that play".

It's time we scrutinize the coaching and the players. We help pay their bills so it's our duty to see what's happening. I for one will be noting philosophy changes so I can stifle any undue praise or criticism.

P.S. The boner thing was a joke. Some people have sensitive boners on here :P

 

I don't like the change, but I think going to Penny has more to do with intangibles than X's and O's. I'm not expecting us to start lighting up the scoreboard, but Penny is a much better leader, he's more respected in the locker room and Henning trusts him with the keys to the car so to speak. Still, I would have let Henne sink or swim this season, I hope Sparano knows what he's doing.

 

That Brady guy is pretty good, amazing what a good Qb can accomplish.

If anything, the offense under performed with Henne at the wheel.

Let's see what happens this Sunday.

 

well i will continue to disagree. Henning has been receiving a check from the NFL for 40 years. You dont do that if you dont know what you're doing. He has two Super Bowl rings, one with a journeyman QB. His offense was good enough to ride a dominant defense to the Super Bowl only six years ago so the idea that the game has passed him by is laughable. His style of ground and pound play action Coryell football may not be pretty but its highly effective. Our defense will be our identity not our offense. You, if anyone should know that Boik having watched the blueprint for this team which is the New York Giants teams Parcells woin two Super Bowls with.

The blueprint is build a dominant defense (80% there) a dominant running game (took a step back this year but will probably be the priority next year) and a play action offense designed to keep safeties honest. I know everyone got on the badwagon of "the game has changed because of the rules. its a passing league now, blah blah blah" Well guess what? More than half the teams dominating this year all use our formula. Ravens, Steelers, Jets, Titans, Chiefs, Giants, Falcons.

We will never, never become a Colts or Saints offense while Sparano is here. Henning's offense works in the overall philosophy of the team which is ball control, field position, force the other team to make the mistakes. . Now we are a very young team at this stage which is why its us and not the other teams that are making the mistakes but as our team matures that should switch. You want Henning to design a pass first offense? The guy could do it in one offseason if thats what was wanted but its not wanted by us. It doesnt play into our philosophy. His offense is perfect for our philosophy. Now if you dont like Henning then get rid of Sparano because he's going to hire the exact same type of coach but more than likely one that isnt as good. David Lee? Please. And you know thats who gets the job if Henning retires. We're not going outside this organization to get a different type of off coordiantor.

So either the fans accept the Parcells/ Sparano philosophy or they advocate another three year rebuilding project becuase those are the only two choices IMO

 

QBs are the most important factor in determining offensive success.

 

Dolphins were up 14-0 before the first wildcat play against the Patriots. Pennington was on fire that game. The defense played like gangbusters. Without the wildcat Miami would have beaten the Patriots, with the wildcat Miami destroyed them.

 

Hey Todd,

I have no idea what to expect with our offense in this game. (could you imagine how tough it would be for the Titans DC?) I know that Henne is semi underdeveloped and Penny is semi retired. I think these are the most ironic and unpredictable of circumstances.

The good news about Penny is that he won't make too many mistakes because he is a veteran (or so you'd think). The bad news about Penny is that his repeatedly repaired arm is hash. Henning has got to be beating his head against the wall. Should he use the same plays that Henne ran or alter them for Penny's strong suits. What our offense looks like on Sunday will be anyone's guess.

 

I would imagine he will try to establish the run game first. Off tackle seems to be effective against the Tiatns. Play action off it I guess after. Whatys interesting is the titans kindd of play a loose secondary and can be vulnerable in the intermediate area. But you're right its hard to envision just what we're going to do. I do expect mArshall to be targeted quite a bit though

 

Thank you for this. It's not Henne. It's our entire offensive system.

 

You're killing it today, Todd.

Oh and let's not forget...when you say we scored 10 points against the Cardinals in 2008...7 of those were Chad Henne's one drive of the game.

 

No mention of points allowed?

 

I think this offense would be a lot better as a whole if ronnie brown would play like the #2 overall pick...he's so damn inconsistent at this point in his career iam sure that lack of explosiveness has hurt this offense tremendously..

He better step up, take responsibility, put the team on his back, get freakin frackin angry and get 25 touches in this game...If he doesnt get 25 touches on sunday, Dan Henning is a moron.If I dont see an aggressive attitude from ronnie here on out, then he can take a hike as well...Iam done with him if I dont see the level that I know he can play at.

MAN UP SON.

 

Yeah, in garbage time. Who cares?

Adam Schefter was on with Sedano this morning and he said it best, no matter what they say publically, the coaching staff just doesn't believe in Henne. they want to make the playoffs and they decided that Penny was the better bet. It's that simple. the staff doesn't think Henne is good enough to win 7 of 8 games (which is what it will take for us to have a chance.

Schefter is right. Completion percentage, yards per attempt, all those stats are worthless if the people you're supposed to be elading don't ahve confidence in you and the people who put you in that leadership position don't trust you.

Whether they're right or wrong is something we'll find out, but if they don't trust him he shouldn't be playing.

 

Ahh, ronnie Brown.

Somehow nick Saban has escaped all Aaron rodgers criticism. I guess passing on drew Brees overshadowed Rodgers.

 

Lies, Damn Lies, then Statistics.

Pennington's:

-Ball control, he consistently runs the clock down to :03 or :02 Seconds when the situation calls for it, something Henne never had the hang of, that does not show up on the Stat Sheet.

-Lack of turning the ball over, there were 5 times the ball was available for the defense Sunday, 3 int's 2 fumbled snaps.

-Offense functions properly, Big Jake had 2 offsides penalties, that is unheard of, and Suggs is having a down year, a Qb in proper rhythm reduces the chances of those penalties.

-Henne's 11 tipped passes lead the NFL, they go down as incompletions not as the structural problem they are in fact.

Those things do not show up on the stat sheet, Henne's two fumbled snaps effectively killed plays, but they just go down as "fumbles not lost".

 

I can see blaming a developing QB for not developing fast enough

 

The Cardinals cared. They wanted to keep Miami out of the end zone, still had all their starters out there, the crowd was still into the game, and they tried their damnedest to keep us out of the end zone but Henne made good throws and we got the touchdown.

This situation came about because they decided to bring Pennington back onto the roster. If Pennington weren't here we wouldn't be having this conversation. They went to playoffs with him, and the team knows it, and Pennington is a great leader and so the team has continued to look to him even while Chad Henne is trying to establish himself as the offense's leader.

At some point you have to look at whether they didn't stack the deck against Chad Henne by continuing to keep that 500 pound gorilla in the room. It's a lot like the situation with Minnesota and Brett Favre. They probably WOULD win more games with Tarvaris Jackson at QB right now. But nobody cares, because it's Brett Favre. Tarvaris Jackson can't take hold of that locker room, Brett Favre is there. Kevin Kolb can't take hold of the locker room, multiple Pro Bowler Mike Vick is there. You can say oh well if Chad Henne was the right man for the job then he'd steal Pennington's thunder. But that's horse ****. It's unfair to ask a young unproven guy like that to establish himself and his leadership while a much older and more proven guy is on the roster, especially a guy that just a year ago went all through camp and preseason as your starter after a Comeback Player of the Year campaign.

Their indecisiveness has killed them. The didn't **** or get off the pot with respect to Chad Pennington. They sat on the fence, and so every time there was an incomplete pass, every time there was an interception, eyes are on Chad Pennington. Remember when Chad Pennington led us to one of the greatest turnarounds in league history? I wonder Chad Pennington would have done on that play. I know what Henne thinks, but I want to hear Pennington's input. Chad, what am I doing wrong?

They allowed this to remain Chad Pennington's locker room, and if they were going to do that they SHOULD have just said right from the start **** it, if Chad Pennington's shoulder is healthy, HE is our starter.

They didn't do that. They tried to have their cake and eat it too. And instead they fed us all a pile of dog ****. And dog **** is what we'll continue to eat in the coming years.

I truly believe Pennington can lead us to the playoffs this year. I think he can win 6 of 8, maybe even 7 of 8, provided Mike Nolan's defense hasn't begun the same second half meltdown it suffered in Denver. And if I thought James Chadwick Pennington's shoulder would stay healthy and he could play quarterback for the Dolphins in 2011 and/or 2012, then I'd be head, shoulders and balls in his court. But I seriously doubt he can. And now this team is going to have to either try and find a wholly new quarterback, or try and put the genie BACK in the bottle and go with a QB whom they've already boldly declared a FAILURE by taking his job away from him.

And what happens if Mike Nolan's defense is indeed melting down the way it did in Denver? What happens if the way they got dominated by the Ravens in most aspects of the game was NOT a fluke? What happens if James Chadwick Pennington improves our offensive output to a whopping 18 or 20 points per game and instead of losing games 26-13, we're losing them 31-21? What the hell will we have gained by doing this to Chad Henne?

Nothing.

We'll just be in the middle of another rebuilding process, again, with another Head Coach/General Manager tandem, again.

 

I said something similar the other day. The question has to be asked; would this staff make this move if Pennington were not on the roster? And yes, a good part of the team remembers the last time we got into the playoffs. You give them the opportunity to have options then they (the team) will choose options. If the team knows the backup is ****ty, and no matter what anyone says publicly, the players know, then qho are they going to play all out for? The ****ty backup?

I do wonder if this move is made if Thigpen is the #2 and some other guy as the #3? Just sayin' that would be one hell of a move. They'd likely be more inclined to ride it out and make a decision after the season.

 

I would start Thigpen over Henne, if Pennington was not available

 

Why no mention of INTs?

 

I *guarantee* they don't make this move if Thigpen is the backup. Absolutely, 100 percent guaranteed.

There are guys you don't put on a roster unless you damn well intend on starting them. Dan Marino, Brett Favre, etc. Now, I wouldn't normally put Chad Pennington on that list. But, what he lacks in career achievement that would automatically put him in that category no matter where he went, he more than makes up for with the fact that he has already established himself with this team on this roster, leading them to one of the greatest one season turnarounds in league history, bringing them to the playoffs, holding barbecues that get 100% attendance, etc. Because he was established, putting him as Chad Henne's backup was the same thing as trying to bring Brett Favre in or Dan Marino later in his career and saying ok, you're just a backup. Only difference is those guys wouldn't have been on board with that and Pennington was on board with it, but does that REALLY matter in the eyes of the team, when you're 4-4 and have a host of problems and are trying desperately to make the playoffs? No, it doesn't.

 

Which interceptions would you be referring to? Would that be the one where Brandon Marshall inexplicably decided he wanted to pull a do-over on his route against New England? Would that be the one where he slipped on his break and then decided he'd make up for it by floating to the sideline instead of coming straight down his stem on the timing pattern as the play calls for? Or how about the timing out pattern where Brian Hartline decides that he should get on his knees and pray for the ball to appear in his hands rather than actually run to it as he's supposed to? The Steelers interception that was not, in fact, an interception? Or how about the Josh Wilson garbage interception with the team down two touchdowns with less than 30 seconds in the game? What about the one where Roberto Wallace ran the wrong route and brought his defender right to where Henne wanted to go with the ball on 4th down against the Jets?

 

So in your mind, we should have let Penny go, and gone into the season with Henne/Thigpemn/White and that would've been a hunky dory QB situation?

They would've been insane to do such a thing.

And no, it's not too much to expect that if Chad Henne had played lights out he would've grabbed the locker room by the gonads and not let go. But he didn't.

The team didn't do anything to Chad Henne that he didn't do to himself. Dan Henning's crappy play calling didn't make Chad Henne shotput a 5 yeard pass to Fasano that was a wide open TD. The system didn't make him miss numerous other wide open guys. He didn't play poorly but he didn't play well enough to be the unquestioned guy. That's on him.

 

I'm not saying that's what he said, but I think we could have likely brought in someone that has some experience to go against the triad you just noted. They may have cut White regardless, who knows.

But at some point you're going to go with a young guy for 2-3 seasons, you just will. You just can't keep counting on bringing in the next Drew Brees. Yeah we ****ed that up, but thats not my point. They could have brought in Rex Grossman for instance - yes that would be absolutely awful, but I can't remember who was a FA at that time. All I'm saying is that we had 4 QB's in camp; therefore I think its reasonable to say we'd have done the same if Penny wasn't here as they had some inkling with White coming into this season, on some level. Maybe?

I'm not absolving Henne and I've seen things with my own eyes, but I've also seen where we have some downright ****ty playcalls. Sometimes we run 2 WR's out into a pattern without facing an all out blitz. Thats not going to be overly effective IMHO.

But, there are teams that head into the season with a young guy - Henne, a marginally experienced backup - Thigpen and maybe a veteran or a developmental guy. Thigpen for a backup has a decent resume in terms of experience. Do you want him starting? Probably not, but that plays into him being a backup as well. It's not the only thing but it is something.

You'd have to admit you've seen a worse corp of QB's listed on a team's depth chart.