Hickey And Wallace Had A Sit Down To Discuss Future

I love how all of us kept trying to post a response and the site swallowed them all up, and now just spit them out lol

 

In 2014, Flacco averaged 1.87 such attempts per game, Roethlisberger 1.94, Tannehill 1.25, and Rodgers 1.13.

What do you suppose that difference yields in terms of anything measurable of significance?

 

In this case you were talking about 40+ yard passes in the air. In 2014 Rodgers attempted 0.3 per game, Roethlisberger 0.8, Flacco 0.7, and Tannehill 0.6.

Do you honestly believe that sort of miniscule variation in something that happens less than once a game on average is having a measurable effect on the game of football?

In other words, do you think it makes any sense to believe something like, "quarterbacks who throw 40+ yard passes in the air 0.75 or more times per game have better offenses [or their teams win more, etc. -- anything measurable] than quarterbacks who throw 40+ yard passes in the air 0.5 or fewer times per game"?

What can that amount of variation in something that happens so infrequently possibly mean? I suspect nothing.

 

And so did Ben Roethlisberger in 2012.

 

You are comparing players who have PROVEN to have the ability, to a guy who never has in 3 years because of....one season?

Don't let all those "stats" play tricks on ya

 

Tannehill threw the ball successfully downfield in 2012.

 

No he didnt. Watch the games, show me more than 2 good throws deep. We saw Russel Wilson throw about 5 in the playoffs alone.

I'll be waiting

 

Not interested in a pissing contest. It's all there in black and white. How you choose to interpret it is up to you and of no concern to me.

 

What throws are you referring to??

 

You seem to be thorough in your research, simply find me a couple throws is all I'm asking

 

Searched NFL.com and compiled a list of videos that match the criteria of deep throws that people keep saying.. over-the-shoulder type throws which are also over 30 yards.
I do think Tannehill needs to work on his deep passes, but he is not as bad as some of you make him out to be.


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000258028/QB-Tannehill-to-WR-Wallace-49-yd-pass
(over 40 yards in the air)




http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fanta...l-to-WR-Gibson-46-yd-pass-4th-down-conversion
(over 40 yards in the air)


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000241168/QB-Tannehill-to-WR-Hartline-34-yd-pass-TD
(30 yards in the air)


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000267136/QB-Tannehill-to-WR-Wallace-46-yd-pass
(over 40 yards in the air)


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000101262/QB-Tannehill-to-RB-Clay-29-yd-pass-TD
(30 yards in the air)


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap1000000060889/QB-Tannehill-to-WR-Hartline-34-yd-pass
(30 yards in the air)


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000090544/QB-Tannehill-to-WR-Hartline-35-yd-pass
(35 yards in the air)


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000068146/QB-Tannehill-to-WR-Hartline-80-yd-pass-TD
(35 yards in the air)




http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap1000000065594/QB-Tannehill-to-WR-Hartline-41-yd-pass
(40 yards in the air)

 

Just go watch Youtube. I watched a 2013 highlight video of Tannehill's tds...the first throw was a really nice 40 yarder to Hartline for a td. He had a couple nice long td throws in that vid.

 

In 3 full seasons, that being all we can gather is depressing.

Many of those throws are nice tosses, but not really what we are debating. An example is the TD pass to Clay, no one is disputing he can make those passes by any means. And despite that being considered a "deep pass" by numbers geeks....I'm not sure that qualifies as to what we are discussing.

Hell, the very first pass was horribly underthrown if you watched the game...but it is more to the point of the discussion simply because it is the type of plays we are missing.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.c...location=DL&pass_location=DM&pass_location=DR

 

Gains of 30 yards or more.....not the issue at hand and that can mean a lot of things.


I think the biggest issue is that those of us who watch every snap of every game are interpreting what we are looking for in regards to "deep passes" differently than google guy. I have stood firm that Ryan is lethal on plays like the 29yd TD pass to Clay since the middle of 2012. He can make those type throws with the best of them.

More to MY point in the complaint is a lot like the first video, in my opinion a true deep pass. And ironically on that peticular play Mr small catch radius slowed down and readjusted to frankly a poorly thrown pass.

Looking forward to 2015 and these guys connecting so this whole issue can be put to bed.

 

Where is there any evidence that the sorts of passes you're talking about, whatever they are, have anything to do with winning?

If you have some very specific idea of what you want the Dolphins' quarterback to be doing, you probably ought to first make sure that has anything to do with winning, and that there is any variation in that regard across the league.

If you're talking about something that either 1) doesn't vary significantly among quarterbacks, or 2) has nothing to do with winning, then obviously you're talking about something meaningless.

So, we can easily sit around and talk about the fact that Ryan Tannehill doesn't do "X," and if "X" isn't something meaningful in terms of winning in the NFL, why does it matter?

 

It's why you bought the overpriced Porsche in Mike Wallace, to connect on big plays. It is an issue when you bought the games best stock car and the driver struggles to drive it.

 

OK, so it was a mistake to sign Mike Wallace. However, the degree to which Ryan Tannehill threw the ball downfield successfully prior to Mike Wallace's arrival, as a rookie no less, doesn't put the Dolphins at any disadvantage in that regard in terms of winning in the NFL.

In other words, if you consider the Wallace signing to be a mistake, and simply replace him with someone better suited to Ryan Tannehill, the evidence suggests that he'll perform just fine downfield.

 

Or Ryan could improve on those throw it's better blocking and accuracy and signing Mike Wallace looks like it made some sense

 

Ryan Tannehill sucks at throwing the deep ball. It doesn't matter who the WR is. You can throw out all the stats you want but it doesn't change that fact. Anyone that watches the games knows he can't throw the deep pass with any consistency.

 

If a deep ball to you is something that is 40+ yards past the LOS in the air, I think you may have an incorrect idea of how frequently even the elite of the elite QBs complete those passes. Last year, the combo of Brady, Brees, Rodgers and PManning completed 6 of 22 (27%). Tannehill completed 2 of 9 (22%). Not a big difference. Had Tannehill tried one more and completed it, he would have surpassed the elites. The point is that nobody completes a high percentage of those passes and they are not a major part of any good passing game's offense. Aaron Rodgers is probably the best in the league at it and he has completed only 4 such passes in the last 3 years.

 

And anyone who watches the games isn't doing a systematic comparison between he and the other QBs in the league in that regard, and so their conclusions are dubious.

 

Other than the wow factor, the 25 yrd past the LOS pass is as good as the 45 yarder, but much more efficient. Completing those passes generally means that the receiver got behind the defender and has a chance to go all the way. Since they are easier to hit the receiver in stride, the chance of the huge play may be even greater with the shorter pass. And it's still plenty long to make the defense to devote safety help to the deeper part of the field and, if they don't, they run a major risk of getting burned for big plays.

 

Not all those QBs have the luxury of an elite deep threat like Wallace though, that's the issue. We didn't bring him here to catch 12 yard TDs, he was brought here to change games in a single play.

 

Part of the reason they don't have it is because they don't care to have it. Those elite passing attacks simply don't seem to care or bother with the superspeed guys. When they do have guys with better than average WR speed, like Cobb or Brandin Cooks, they don't even play them much as outside deep threats, they play them in the slot more of ten than not. Maybe those teams with the elite passing games know a thing or two about what you do and don't need for an elite passing game.

 

It has been documented that the team wants and has pushed for these plays to connect and for whatever reason they have not. And those two examples you are using are guys who are fast but also quick which Wallace is not. That is why they work well out of the slot, they are shifty and hard to cover in space.

 

Yes, let's ignore the fact that as Tannehill is throwing that ball, he gets hit as he is releasing. Poorly thrown pass, please. Like, this is what we have devolved into when discussing Tannehill? Come on. Passes thrown more than 30-40 yards in the air are very low percentage, and, if you really watch other games, you routinely see the great QBs putting up deep balls like that one all the time.

 

Again, what QB would you like to see the Dolphins get? Be it free agent, or in the draft? And, further, if we were to draft a QB, would you be willing to give him time to develop, or does he have to come in and break passing records his rookie year, or get kicked to the curb?

 

That is called an excuse. And it may be valid if he had shown at any point he can hit those throws even with a clean pocket.

Funny, the QB you were trying to discredit the past few weeks hit multiple passes like that to WRs with a speckle of talent.

 

Nobody cares about passing records, in case anyone missed it passing records are getting blown away at an alarming rate because that is what this league has become.

And no, Ryan shouldn't be jettisoned out of town because he can't hit that pass, that's not nearly a good enough reason to switch a QB. What you do is hope it gets better in 2015 and if it doesn't you get ride of your sports car and find other ways to move the ball. Simple as that.

 

Huh? Like I said, I watched one video of Tannehill's tds from 2013, first play in the video was a 40 yarder to Hartline, in stride, for a td. He had a couple in that video. Tannehill can hit those throws, and has hit them. He doesn't hit them with Wallace very often. As to Wilson, great, I've said he was good. What more do you want? I question whether he is an elite, HoF QB, at this point in his career. I question what he would do if he was forced to overcome 30 point games routinely. That being said, did Tannehill, or did he not, complete that pass, while being hit? Excuse? It's a REASON. When ANY QB gets hit as he's releasing the ball, the accuracy is going to be lowered.

 

You, of course, missed the point. I wasn't talking about jettisoning Tannehill. Cash CLEARLY believes that Tannehill is garbage. I was asking him who he would like as a FA or draft pick at QB. Pretty simple. I also asked if we drafted a QB, if he would be willing to let the guy develop, or want to jettison him after one season, when he didn't make the playoffs of set passing records.

 

Yes, those guys are both fast and quick, which is why they are arguably better than Wallace. My point is that those teams are more focused on using their quick then using their straight line speed on deep passes. And in all the time that those teams have had great passing games, they have never made any real steps to get a Wallace -- a guy who is really fast in a straight line but not especially quick or shifty. They don't seem to put much value on that.

 

I think your intention with that "point" was pretty obvious.

 

What do you think my "point" was? Clearly, you think it was something other than I thought it was. Maybe I'll just let you take over posting duties for me. I could PM you my login info, so that you can just post for me whenever you wish.

 

I agree with this post.

 

I also agree with this post. With these two posts, you have shown what my position is. Unfortunately, my position gets muddied and lost, as happens in online discussions, amongst all the other arguments that come up.