Scary thing is all they lost was lebron and big z. Doesn't help that verajao's season ended prematurely and hickson started like crap but holy hell is right...they are awful.
They have a boatload of issues....make no mistake even with Lebron they would probably be no better than 5 seed.
So bad not even Phinomina bothers to try and defend them..sheesh do they stink. I recall watching the Charlotte Hornets when they were an expansion franchise and they were a much better team than the Cavs. And I'm talking Mugsey Bouges and Kelly Tripucka.
No better than 4th I would say. They do have issues, but having no one to rely on, and no scorer (no leadership) doesn't help either. And I like Byron Scott, but boy is he getting the short end of a stick with this team. Even if they play hard (which I think they usually do) they simply aren't talented enough.
Why? Jones is no lock to come out and even if he does hes no sure thing as he has holes in his game. The next two NBA drafts, as it looks to be right now, seem pretty weak at the top to me. I dont see that dominant player we usually see every year or at least every other year. There's some depth but the high quality players are not there which means this will not be a quick fix for teams like Cleveland. The worst part for Cleveland, and speaking as a Knicks fan Ive experienced this, is that their main contracts dont really come off the books til after the 2012 season when they will have cleared about 40M and even then, you cant just let all your players go without getting something for them. They have their work cut out there. Dont jump PhiN or Stitches! It's just basketball, it'll be ok
Well, Brandon Jennings was a 10th overall pick, Dejaun Blair was a 2nd rd pick, there is talent in every draft. Which is the odd thing about the NBA, it has a baseball element to it because it is such a long season, when your team is going bad it seems to last a really long time add in the Cavs are a bad older team so they are starting their rebuild even further behind the 8 ball as those huge contracts have to come off of the books before they really can make any moves, which must drive Dan Gilbert to distraction. In some ways they remind me of your knicks post Isaiah Thomas era, huge contracts for mediocre players with little to no upside
I think you misunderstood my statement. I said the next few drafts lack in top end talent which is generally picks 1-3 or in a deeper draft maybe extends to 5 with real top end talents like a Duncan or a Lebron or even a Chris Webber type...you dont see that coming in that next two years from the research and games I have watched. Blair and Jennings are neither. Jennings is fairly close but cant shoot worth a lick and plays defense with a matador cape. I know there are good players in every draft but if you wanted to put an example of top shelf talent being passed over youre looking more at a Rondo type who inexplicably slipped to 26th (my knicks passed him over for Renaldo freakin' Balkman! ugh I hate you Isiah). You look at a team like Cleveland and theyre going to be in the lottery for a while unless they can get a major trade/signing in their favor. They dont need good players who may be good...they need players who will be good.
That is what got them into their problems B14, trading the future for the now..too often. I look at Blair and Jennings as foundation guys, like Udonis for the Heat, you have to have them and if you then have lottery picks all the better, their problem is the only player who stands out is Varajo.
Then I would say you need to look harder at what you call a foundation guy dude. All due respect, the NBA is a star driven league by any standard and you need at least 3 to win championships and probably 2 to call yourself a very good team. Neither one of those qualify and the Cavs really dont have any right now except maybe Mo Williams who will be older by the time that team is ready to compete again. Guys like Blair are complimentary pieces that are necessary to win but those are much easier to come by
This Cavs team isn't anywhere near the one that had LeBron on it last year. We are starting guys like Manny Harris, Christian Eyenga, Ramon Sessions - none of those guys were even on the team last year. If you take LeBron, Z, Shaq, Delonte West, Mo Williams (injured), Anderson Varejao (injured) and Boobie Gibson (injured) off of last year's team - yeah, they suck pretty bad. But the Heat's record when any ONE of the big three are hurt is 4-8 this year. It happens to any team. The only players that are actually PLAYING for the Cavs that were here with LeBron are Anthony Parker, Antawn Jamison, JJ Hickson and Jamario Moon (who has been planted firmly on the end of the bench). So it isn't exactly fair to compare what this team is doing solely on LeBron. They would be horrible either way, but this is an exaggerated example due to injuries. I mean we started the year 7-9 before the Heat debacle and all the injuries. That is a playoff team in the East. Their main problem is that without Boobie and Mo, there is NO ONE to score. They have to execute their offense perfectly and then still rely on an Anthony Parker desperation jumper.
They definitely did, but a lot of that was to convince LeBron to stay the first time (See Hughes, Larry) and then desperation moves to continue to compete as LeBron was standing in Madison Square Garden screaming "Y'all just wait for the summer of 2010 - it's going to be an exciting one." They didn't have the opportunity the Heat did where Wade was looking long-term and allowed them to rebuild. People trash the Cavs for making short-term moves - but you could make a pretty good argument he was going to leave for Miami no matter what. Trying to at least win one (in a city that hasn't won a championship since the Browns in the 60s) wasn't necessarily a horrible move.
As for the draft - most Cavs fans want Kyrie Irving, the point guard. Seems the league is moving more and more towards PG driven teams - and especially in Byron Scott's offense.
that 4-8 stat is kinda a misnomer, because of the style of play. What is a fact is that the heat's most important player is bosh. They are lost without him.
I'm just trying to point out that if you take a few of the best players off of any team, of course they are going to be horrible. In the Cavs' case, ALL of the good players were taken away. As for LeBron and the MVP - I HATE the way people vote for the MVP. Just call it the Best Player Award. As you just mentioned - Bosh may be the most important player on that team. Most Valuable Player and Best Player are not the same thing.
I tend to agree that he is the best player likely to come out this year. Personally i would probably go with the best big man available as size is always a formula to win games in the NBA with skilled bigs. It seems much harder to build a consistent winner without that piece. Agreed but thats probably because, like my team, you dont have any really good bigs other then Bosh. Its a question of position scarcity in that case.
The only team that really has an ample supply of half-decent big players is Boston. Regardless, that’s not the reason why Bosh is so important to the Heat. Watch more Miami games.
No. That is not why he is so important. And we are okay with our bigs, ask Dwight Howard. We have specialists like the Warden, Dampier bangs, and Z pops every once and a while with a big game. When Haslem comes back, we gain another contributor. Our bigs are fine. Can't have 5 all-stars.
You guys seem to need every bit of those FA's....and to think I was calling them out for trying to "stack the deck"
I watch them when they are on TNT which is roughly about 1/3rd of their games. i would say I watch them plenty. Role and specialist players dont win you titles. Ask Lebron during his Cleveland years. Haslem was the only other decent big on your roster. Without Bosh your team would go to dogmeat in the post and would in trouble on the boards.
Joel Anthony is a pretty damn good contributor. and again...ask Dwight Howard what he thinks of our bigs. 4 contributing bigs is more than enough. The Boston "DEEP" on the FRONT LINE! myth has run it's course. it's BS. The Lakers are better on the front line, so is Portland, and Dallas.....and Utah. In fact, if you match them up man for man with the Heat w/ Haslem..they are right on par. Bosh and Garnett. Haslem and Fat Baby. Only Perkins gives them the edge on the front line. The misconception is that Boston wins because of their front line. They don't. They win on execution of their perimeter game and their help defense. They are not even all that great a rebounding team. Ask 100 people which team is a better rebounding team...Boston or Miami...and at least 99 will say Boston. Yet..Miami ranks 5th in rebounding..and Boston ranks 16th.
As with any team that is trying to become more familiar. But you take away any all-star from any team and they are done. Boston is the "gold standard" for overall talent on the starting five. Take any one of their 4 all-stars away and they are second round meat. Take away Gasol from the lakers and they are a 6th seed...etc...
Tony K: "Cleveland's going nowhere." Wilbon: "You're wrong, Tony. In the East? IN THE EAST? That team will compete for the 8 seed. 30-35 wins. Things will open up for Gibson and Jamison. 30 to 35 wins."
They function fine. small sample size to say otherwise. the coach is as good as any other in the nba.
Obviously they function well, poor choice of words.... Odd they miss a beat when they only have two all stars playing.
The Cavs were 7-9 before all the injuries. They lost Varejao and Mo Williams for most of the season, Boobie has been out for a good portion of the year. Seriously - they are starting Manny Harris and Christian Eyenga at this point. The only two players who are consistent from last year's team are Anthony Parker and Antawn Jamison - and even Parker has missed quite a few games. The Cavs lost Shaq, Z, LeBron and Delonte in the offseason then Mo Williams, Varejao and Boobie to injuries. That is 7 of their top 9 players, with the remaining two (Jamison and JJ Hickson) playing the same position.
Typical of a inside/out Riley team. Bosh is a large part of the offense. It is a matter of the Heat offense being heavy on corner and UCLA influence...you need a good player in the post to make that offense hum.
I realize no one cares but I had to post. I was at the game last night for the win to snap the streak and, just like every other non-blizzard game, it was PACKED and the fans were insane. I've been to ECF games and the big series against Boston last year and this wasn't quite at that level - but it was close. And not just at the end - the fans were pumped from the beginning. Cleveland is an easy target on the national level - but it is hard to find more die-hard, supportive fans than here. In other news, I've been through a 1-15 Phins season, the longest losing streak in NBA history and my Cleveland Indians trading back-to-back Cy Young winners. I deserve a damn championship.
