1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

How far can we go with our offense?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dan S, Dec 1, 2021.

  1. Dan S

    Dan S Phins up!

    236
    149
    43
    Jul 30, 2016
  2. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,536
    33,036
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    MikeHoncho and The_Dark_Knight like this.
  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    Some interesting considerations on the RPO offense and what Miami might be trying to do, however, there's also a lot of assumption here.
    The authors comments about the Offensive Coordinator and the designs etc. were far too general and there's no way he has that level of insight to know what's going on inside the Dolphins.

    Then he makes a mention of how crucial the run game is:

    "And finally, however you’re running the football—zone blocking or power blocking, multiple tight ends or spread sets—it had better be effective, so that the first letter of “RPO” still works."

    But only makes a couple of brief references to the OL struggles. It seems to me that if the run game is so significant, one would have to give consideration as to what difference a good OL might make to all this, but that analysis is lacking.

    Then there's the stats about Tua when he isn't throwing quickly. Maybe someone with more insight can dig into this however, if we're careful about the data, the stats about Tua throwing after a period longer than 2.5 seconds says nothing about the conditions under which he made those throws. Were they intentional deeper players where the plan was to hold the ball longer or were they plays where he was running for his life and just took longer to throw? There a big difference between saying "when Tua had longer than 2.5 seconds" and "Tua threw the ball after 2.5 seconds". There may be other reasons for the statistical drop off with those longer plays other than that Tua can't somehow throw the ball with time on his hands. The author doesn't even attempt to ponder reasons why that might be, he just sort of assumes out of hand that Tua is Mr. RPO and simply cannot throw longer developing plays. He offers no reason for that.

    This strikes me as an author who thinks he sees something and so strings the facts together to support that notion, without actually trying to be circumspect and consider things from different angles, and dig deep. So this is, at best, a big 'possibility' but not really any sort of substantial analysis.
     
    MikeHoncho and Pauly like this.
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

    19,127
    11,058
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    I looked up some Twitter responses to the piece to see if anyone had any insightful replies. I don't know how accurate these statements are, but worth considering:







     
  5. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    How far can we go? Tua's slightly above average statistically right now behind a really bad OL and an equally bad running game (we have the 2nd worst Y/C in the league atm). And that's with a 2nd year QB that himself should improve in years 3-4. So I think we can go pretty far with Tua as long as he keeps improving and we get him better protection and a better RB.

    That article is informative but it's just click bait. Nothing says we can't make the RPO work consistently. It'll be our offensive identity.
     
    Pauly, KeyFin and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    To counter the original article-

    1. Tua very rarely has drop backs of 3+ seconds, and when he does it usually involves pressure.
    2. The article states that Tua is just as accurate in non-RPO situations.
    3. The article states Tua's turnovers come mainly in non-RPO situations, which is factual since we don't run RPO a ton. That's just basic math...you do something more often, you have a wider variety of results.
    4. The article shares that Tua throws for less yards in a non-RPO scheme. Now's a good time to mention all those offensive line stats of being worst in the league. It's also a good time to bring up our top receivers being out. We're built around quick releases because that's all we really have with this offense.
    5. The sample size for RPO's is limited and therefore the conclusions are limited. But I've never heard a negative about someone being the best in the league at something positive.
    In conclusion, the Dolphins are winning with Tua despite not having many of the tools they need on offense. You don't bash a QB for that and look for problems that have very little to do with him. You want longer drop-backs and longer developing plays? Protect your QB....that's the only answer. And it would help to give him a WR1 as well. These stats aren't a knock on Tua at all though- he's doing what he can in a crippled offense and actually making it look impressive.

    What other QB's were able to do that? Take a look at HOF QB's...they generally had that in common regardless of how good/bad their offense was around them.
     
    Pauly, Tin Indian and djphinfan like this.
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,536
    33,036
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Waddle is a WR1
     
  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

    51,986
    63,123
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    The offense is, very clearly, going to limit what the team can do. Flores and company have been making chicken salad recently, and are clearly adept at making sure that the Fins beat inferior teams. Thats positive, and something that former coaches struggled with.

    But we're also only beating teams that either suck on offense, are missing key players to injury, or have a team/scheme that our defense happens to match up well against.

    This year, we're 5-0 when the other team scores 17 points or less, and 0-7 when they score more than that.

    Last season, they were 7-0 when allowing 17 points or less, and 3-6 when allowing more.

    Its not going to probably get much better this season, but we should be OK the next two games vs the Giants and Jets. Hopefully, the offseason brings new coaching and more quality players.
     
  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Waddle is incredible, but I'd say Gisecki is closer to a prototypical WR1 than he is. For me, the key is getting Fuller and Parker on the field with those guys so we can really open up the offense.
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,536
    33,036
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Waddle is leading the team in recpetions, yards, and touchdowns. How much more does he need to do to be a WR1?
     
    Puka-head and Tin Indian like this.
  11. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

    51,986
    63,123
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    To me, being a #1 Wr is more of a subjective thing than a numbers thing. I mean, you weren't calling Brian Hartline a #1 when he was leading the Fins in catches or yards, right?
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  12. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

    7,929
    4,404
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  13. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

    7,929
    4,404
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    The Ravens would say otherwise.

    The problem with the offense is still the same problem we've had for years, our offensive line is garbage -either due to personnel or coaching. Quite possibly both. Until it is finally fixed we will never see what any of the skill position players are truly capable of. And I'm not referring to Parker, Fuller or Williams. All 3 of those guys need to be gone after the season ends.
     
  14. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

    51,986
    63,123
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    The Ravens are not a good passing team. They never were. And hopefully the Fins have given the league a template for exposing Jackson as a one trick pony.

    Regarding Parker, the team gains very little by cutting him after the season, and he's signed as an affordable #2 WR for two more years. Cutting him, when we lead the league in cap space and have no other options behind him, is just being spiteful.
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,536
    33,036
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Then it is a meaningless term.

    Waddle is the go-to Miami Dolphins wide receiver. He is going to be the person they put their best guy on and he will still beat him.

    Comparing Brian Hartline to Waddle is just insulting.
     
    Tin Indian likes this.
  16. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,834
    4,671
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    To alot of people a "#1 WR" has to be 6'3" 220.
     
    Dol-Fan Dupree likes this.
  17. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

    51,986
    63,123
    113
    Apr 24, 2012
    Troy, Virginia
    [​IMG]
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,536
    33,036
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    I know. It is silly.
     
  19. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

    7,929
    4,404
    113
    Feb 10, 2010
    Palm Bay Florida
    Parker in terms of games played every year is actually not affordable at all. All evidence shows he will not play a full season and in reality plays about half the games every year + or - 2.

    Sure the Ravens\Lamar are not a good passing team but to say they don't have a good offense is quite disingenuous.
     
    mlb1399 and Fishhead like this.
  20. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

    3,893
    3,087
    113
    Mar 6, 2010
    I think getting his and Jones contract off the books should be priority 1 over this off-season or next.

    I think our off-season draft and Fa targets need to be LT, WR, CB and RB. Hopefully we can get a few more years out of Howard but also need to be thinking about that. Really would love to see us go LT and CB in our first 2 rounds unless we sign a LT in FA. Hell, I’d even get behind taking David Bell in the 1st or 2nd round as a big bodied compliment to Waddle.
     
    Tin Indian likes this.
  21. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

    2,073
    1,733
    113
    Sep 29, 2016
    I certainly wouldn’t hitch my wagon to Parker - you simply can’t count on him to be available on a weekly basis. With that being said, I doubt they move on from him next year. I certainly hope that Williams, Wilson and Fuller are all gone.
     
    Tin Indian likes this.
  22. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

    3,893
    3,087
    113
    Mar 6, 2010
    Unless he restructures his contract, I just don’t know how you can keep paying a player who’s had 1 full season in his NFL career. Even beyond the missed games, how many week is he banged up and playing at less than 100%?
     
    Tin Indian likes this.

Share This Page