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How much of a Diva was Landry?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PlayinHarder, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes I think this stuff gets blown out of proportion. If Landry was still here his attitude would be considered a winner's personality, or the way an elite WR should be. "I want my #1 WR to want the ball!" Would be the overriding sentiment.

    Same with Ajayi when he left. All of a sudden he was breaking with the design of the play. Had he still been here we would be praising his "runner's instinct".

    I didn't want Landry for the money he was asking, in fact I think I had him much lower then most people did at about 9-10 mil cap, but I still would love to have him on the team. He fought hard when he was on the field. No reports (that I can remember) of him being a cancer in the locker room.

    If Gase had decided to move on from Landry without making him a real offer, I would put some stalk into him being a problem, but all reports I heard was that we just couldn't come up to the level Landry wanted.

    Smart move by our front office, this type of contract would have handcuffed us moving forward.
     
  2. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    Well Suh was a lot less head stompy after getting a fat pay day from us.
     
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  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He was a lot less head stompy once he had to serve a league mandated suspension. He had to miss a playoff game. He and the league had a come to Jesus moment where they made it clear they'll end his career.
     
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  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I was throwing fits over Ajayi not sticking to his lanes at the very start of last season- many here said I was imagining it. I was calling for them to bench his butt in week two though. And if you look back, I was saying the same each time Landry threw punches....it definitely wasn't just in week 17 when he actually got caught. Although I was still a fan, I said it was a "losers mentality" several times last season.

    I realize that these were not easy moves and a lot of coaches wouldn't have made them- "Higher than Thou Philbin" certainly wouldn't have. I honestly think that's what moved me from being on the fence with Gase to being a massive supporter; he did what was best for us even though it would have short term consequences. Make no mistake though, I'd still be complaining if those selfish jerks were in our locker room since they cost us wins. Talent means nothing if you hurt your team on the scoreboard.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  5. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I understand that a lot of times when players are let go they suddenly go from being 8 feet tall and bulletproof to bums.

    However the Ajayi and Landry, at least on this site, people have complained about their shortcomings before they left. Ajayi for his general sulky attitude when things didn’t go his way and for only wanting certain types of runs. Landry for not being very fast, not studying the playbook as much as he should have and letting his temper out of control to the detriment of the team.

    So hen people make the aame complaints after they left aas they were making when they wer here I think it is fair. Also as CK said some of us who didn’t care for Landry’s ‘firey’ attitude kept their mouths shut becuase most fans liked it and he was producing on the field.
     
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  6. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry but you are pretty damn soft if you are keeping your mouth shut because of the perception of the fans.

    And Landry didn’t start that fight vs buffalo. Micah Hyde did.
     
  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I would argue that most people should think twice and bite their tongue when push comes to shove in life. Football or otherwise.
     
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  8. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    When does push come to shove on a message board. And come on man these dudes post **** on Twitter for attention 24/7. The only time anyone should bite their tongue as a fan would be if there is financial impact as a result. Or something to gain. I mean miamidolphins.com has a flat out shrill for the team in Andy Cohen I guess it is. All rainbows and unicorns and I get it cause I’m sure there is a net gain there.

    But the rest of us? Yeah I mean I haven’t been here that long but I think it’s a hindsight 20/20 cop out.

    Now if keyfin was 2 weeks in saying Ajayi was not taking what was given good on him cause I know I didn’t hear a damn thing about Ajayi and that until gase called him out and the media ran with it. Same with the juice and the playbook narrative I find to be highly bs. Unless you think you can catch that many balls and not know the playbook/your assignment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
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  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I guess I read the comment wrong. I thought that he was talking about Jarvis, not one of us.
     
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  10. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not about being soft. It's about not wanting to be that guy, the one who keeps saying the same thing over and over again when a subject comes up. It's been said, just not over and over again.

    I for one, was never a huge fan of Landry and said so through the years. It's like, some fans get to be excited about AJ Green, Julio, Antonio, etc. etc.

    Our #1 WR was Molasses Landry and it sucked. I guess I lamented the fact he was our #1 WR, more than his play itself, which wasn't bad. Detroit was able to sign a Golden Tate for cheap, yet people wanted us to break the bank for Landry.

    But I don't blame fans of the team. Hell I think Landry is rated above a lot of much better WRs in the NFL100.

    Baldwin 99. Michael Thomas 81. Odell Beckham 77. Landry 52. LMAO.
     
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  11. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Hoops gets it. All that playbook crap was a concoction for the media and fans to run away with. While there may have been other issues behind the scenes, the real problem was not football related in an on-the-field sense.
     
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  12. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Well I’m just gonna go ahead and tell you if I have a conviction you are gonna hear it over and over and over until it’s either proven wrong or fixed.
     
  13. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And that's how and why I skim over some posters' posts. Go ahead I'm not stopping you. Once you've heard the same argument 20 times it just gets old.

    Landry caught a lot of balls because he got a lot of targets. Why he got a lot of targets is another topic. His catch rate and efficiency were not exemplary. So don't shoot me when I say I'm not impressed with just "catches."
     
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  14. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I think that its going to be hilarious when the Fins become a top 10 offense this year without him, while Landry is part of a dysfunctional mess in Cleveland. He'll have his money, but he'll also need to shut up.
     
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  15. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    If I’m going to put my emotional time and effort into an arguement I’ll pick something that:
    1) is important;
    2) I have a chance of changing the other person’s mind; and
    3) I have evidence to support my opinion.

    Arguing over a productive player's attitude fails all 3 tests for me. I’ve long stated my desire for Pouncey to be gone, but that was because I saw his attitude as having a detrimental effect on others. As far as Landry’s attitude having a negative effect on the team there isn’t a lot of solid evidenc, so while he was here it wasn’t worth arguing over. Now he’s gone whether or not I liked his attitude is immaterial.

    I get enough stress and hassle in my day job and family life without going out and creating more in what I do in my free time to relax.
     
  16. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    I agree, those that were critical of them before their departure has every right to be critical after. I'm also ok with pointing out reasons we might be better without them. I'm just not a fan of anything that looks like a blatant swing of opinion cause he isn't wearing the uniform anymore. If Landry was horrible in the locker room and not coach-able on the field I don't think we would have tried so hard to reach a contract agreement.

    He is not worth what the Browns paid for him, but he will be a good WR for them. Next year Brown fans are going to be put in a difficult situation (similar to our situation with Suh). Paying great WR money for good WR play does not make you a fan favorite with most of the fan base.
     
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  17. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Did they really? They picked a number and stuck to it.
     
  18. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    Most of it was behind closed doors, but I assumed that with how long the negotiation went, and the fact that in the end we actually used the Franchise tag on him, there must have been a lot of offers/counter offers. It seems unlikely that Landry's agent would have continued to bother with the pretense of getting a deal done if EVERY time they walked in and the Dolphins put the same offer back on the table.
     
  19. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They were never in Landry's ball park as far as money goes. They franchised him to keep from losing him for nothing. Sure there were offers and counter offers but they had a number they weren't going above.
     
  20. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    I would hope this is true with all negotiations and not unique just to Landry. I don't have any insider information, but I would assume that we had to have a pretty high number on him. It wasn't a guarantee we would find a trade partner for Landry (thank you Browns) and if that happened we were going to have to pay out to Landry. I suspect we were around 13 mil (I also saw that number reported somewhere) for us to accept a potential 16 mil hit that the tag would get us too.

    If we valued him at 9 - 10 mil I highly doubt we go franchise tag on him. Too much risk for way too little potential reward.
     
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  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Hyde grabbed at Landry and probably would have been ejected if Landry would have walked backwards and kept his cool. Instead though, Landry starts throwing punches and screaming to get all the wrong type of attention. Hyde started it, but Landry clearly caused the brawl.

    You know what though, that kind of stuff happens in the heat of the moment. I get it and that's really not what pissed of off about the guy. He's ejected, watches the entire second half in the locker room and then walks into the press conference HOURS LATER, after plenty of time for reflection, and says, "What else could I do? He grabbed me by the throat!"

    If Landry couldn't figure out what else he could have done in two hours, then he definitely won't figure it out next season or in 2020 either. Coaches have been continually telling him what else he could do and it's like talking to a brick wall since he just doesn't listen. Nobody can deny his talent but it's simply not a player I would want in my locker room. We were losing and he refused to change- while celebrating himself at every possible opportunity. What else really needs to be said?
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    LOL. Yes please lecture me on being soft.

    I stand by what I wrote. I'm not going praise a player that doesn't deserve praise. I'm not going to say something that isn't true. But I'm not going to be annoying and constantly go after a fan favorite on the team I'm also a fan of because what's the point? I could give a sh-t whether someone thinks that makes me "soft".
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I am sorry, but I know differently. It may not have been publicly known, but my 3YPC co-hosts and I had been talking about it on our whatsapp chat for months before he was traded, because that was the information we had. Jay Ajayi was very demanding and very particular about which kinds of plays he would run and it was a very narrow set. He was a total diva. We saw that up close. The playbook struggle stuff had been going on for months. The diva stuff had been going on for years.

    There was a reason they up and traded the guy in the middle of the season. And we even know what those phone calls were like when that trade was being formed, what was being said in those conversations, and what DIDN'T end up happening due to a last minute change of heart (Landry was going to be traded for the same fire sale price, it was GOING to happen, the phone calls had already taken place, but then they slept on it and somehow the trade evaporated...someone stepped in).
     
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  24. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Kenyan drake jumped in that fight and went bananas how come you aren't saying the same thing about him? is it cause he still plays for the team?

    I will maintain tannehill never gets hurt jay ajayi and Jarvis landry are still dolphins.
     
  25. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    I understand not wanting to be "that type" of fan. I hated the Cutler deal, but I didn't want to bad mouth the guy before he even took a snap as a Dolphin. Nor did I want to admit that the season ended before the 1st game last year. I let it play out, the only time I took exception was when some overly confident posters thought Cuttler was an upgrade to Ryan.
     
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  26. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    the writing was on the wall at the 1/4 pole that the season was over with jay cutler
     
  27. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    I'm old enough to remember the praise that was awarded Ajayi when Gase got together with him b/w weeks 5 & 6 of the '16 season to discuss the types of runs that best accentuated his style, which in turn helped propel the success of that year.

    You're either a coach that knows how to best use a player according to their strengths, who is understanding of their weaknesses, and gameplan and playcall accordingly, or you're not. Considering the very poor offensive rankings we've seen over the course of Gase's tenure, and the multiple accounts of player/coach discourse, this has yet to be confirmed.
     
  28. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    and then, the league figures out what that strength is, and weakness is, don't they? It's good for the coach to acknowledge initially what the players strength is, but is the player working on the weaknesses?

    I believe Gase said something before last season, about the run plays and that they were limited or they've run them all etc. etc. He hinted at his displeasure of having to rely on those run plays
     
  29. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    run plays nothing. its 8 man box fronts with a qb that can't make teams pay. and once ajayi left the narrative changed into spread you out type stuff with the same root problem.

    the qb
     
  30. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    If anyone expected Ajayi to be a different back than what he had shown in the past . . . well, that is on them.

    Modern RB's are deployed by committee these days because of this.
     
  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Drake was in that fight, Stills was in that fight and several others. Yet did you hear them in a press conference hours later saying they did the right thing? And did they have a history of throwing punches after being told over and over to control their temper?

    That's the big difference between a contract extension (Stills) and a bus ticket to nowhere (Landry).
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The problem is you're supposed to grow. As a player, you're supposed to work on getting better at different things, adding pieces to your game. You do that in the off season. He didn't. He couldn't. He tried to grow as a pass catcher, I'll give him that. It didn't work, but he at least tried. He didn't even TRY to grow as a pass protector, as a runner, or in his understanding of the offense or the playbook.

    Yes, last year Gase figured out what Ajayi was comfortable with and then started calling plays narrowly from that sheet. And Gase was to be commended for that. But if you're dealing with a player who is a diva, is causing problems in the locker room, is demanding to be on the field for all the plays while simultaneously and forcefully restricting your play sheet to a narrow set of choice...he's gotta go. That's what happened. It was the right call.
     
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  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You can state your opinion, especially when asked, but if the overwhelming opinion of the group is positive on a guy and your opinion runs completely against it, there's no need to just keep bringing up every time and speaking in more and more forceful terms. That's how you get tuned out.

    I may have only just started a podcast three months ago but the simple fact of the matter is our podcast is already successful ($$$) because for many years all three of us have had care about how we present ourselves and how interact with our followings. I for one have done that for a reason, because I always wanted to keep my options open in case I decide to do something down the road. And now that I'm regularly speaking to and counting as business associates guys that I grew up idolizing, it's like, yeah...go ahead and call me "soft". LOLZ.
     
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  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Barring another Tannehill injury or a serious meltdown of our current line, I think we will have that confirmation in 2018 one way or the other. It is definitely a "win now" year for everyone in the building and either Gase will prove it or he won't. I think another 6-10 season opens the door for the successor conversation where 9+ wins or a playoff win cements him as the coach many of us desire.

    I don't think this conversation extends too far past 2018 though- an 8-8 (or worse) season likely marks the beginning of the end for Gase. A playoff win buys him at least 2-3 more years.
     
  35. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    where did this history of being told come from? gase was asked in season last year if he had told juice to cool it and he said along the lines of I like the fire I'm not gonna try and control it or something to that extent. gase waxed poetic about ajayi too preseason last year.

    again for me no jay cutler and tannehill stays healthy and does what he did vs san fran when they played that loaded 8 man box saying "your qb must beat us" and none of this roster turnover ever happens.

    I even saw something where a player said in camp last year maybe it was stills that we were playing with that fast tempo and once tannehill went down "all that went out the window"
     
  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Where? It was in dozens of coaching interviews...possibly hundreds. He was told repeatedly that while they loved the fire, he had to keep his emotions in check and stop earning stupid, drive killing penalties. Gase did say it was a fine line but he also made it crystal clear the post-play outbursts would not be tolerated.

    Did you really think they suddenly said, "Hey, let's get rid of Landry for no reason at all!" They shut down contract talks because they clearly didn't see the value in keeping him.
     
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  37. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I didn't get that feeling until the buffalo game. when the season was already over. I believe the buffalo game was the break point. as for the pivot on the resign I think that was likely more contract demand in nature but I don't know that for sure so I'm not gonna guess.

    and you know if someone stands over you and leans into you while you are getting up off the ground and grabs you by the throat I know I damn sure would be going after them. I agree it's a fine line but for me all of this is a result of shoddy qb play killing the entire season and looking for ways to justify it outside of just saying "this is a qb problem". although if you listen to gase when he talked about what the biggest difference in 2018 will be he said pre draft even "getting ryan tannehill back"

    people just for whatever reason tried to ignore it or dismiss it.
     
  38. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 He can smell your fear

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    Heh
     
  39. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    no, those comments about both Ajayi and Landry are based on a lot of fact from sources inside the team. Not the media sources but those that members have. So it's a lot more than just because they are not here.
     
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  40. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    True, but it was a reasonable offer. To call it a low ball offer is bogus. It just wasn't high enough to keep him. It was his choice more than the Dolphins.
     

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