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How much of a Diva was Landry?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PlayinHarder, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    As for Jakeem Grant and the issue of consistency, here is what I will say about that.

    Jakeem went into the 2016 preseason and produced 3.04 yards per route run (24 routes, 7 targets, 73 yards). Anything in YPRR above 3 is an area where pretty much ONLY Julio Jones lives.

    He was basically boycotted during the 2016 regular season. He only got out there for 3 routes. He was targeted on a screen and dropped it.

    So he goes into the 2017 preseason and this time produces 4.34 yards per route run (53 routes, 15 targets, 230 yards). Like I said, I only know of like one wide receiver who even lives in the 3.0 range.

    SO clearly Jakeem had become one of those Mr. August types. We've seen it before, though. Some of them turn out to be Victor Cruz. Some of them are Chansi Stuckey.

    But then he gets a shot during the regular season, and averages 2.36 yards per route run (86 routes, 21 targets, 203 yards). And that obviously won't count the pass interference he drew against Robert Alford of Atlanta, when he beat him and Alford had no choice but to grab and turn Jakeem. That 2.36 figure I believe put in like the Top 6 or Top 7 among NFL wide receivers.

    I don't know about you...but that looks like CONSISTENCY to me.

    To me it's the frequency with which he creates those BIG plays. He makes that 74 yard punt return TD against Tennessee in regular season 2016. There was a 57 yard TD against the Jets in 2016 that was called back on a BS penalty.

    Remember that 13-second, 19-yard kick return he did against the Jets that ran everyone ragged, guys like Calvin Pryor limping off the field, etc...but then they had to re-kick it on a penalty and this time the Jets kicked away from him toward Kenyan Drake, who easily sprung it for a kick return TD (with the help of a key block by Jakeem)? Might not go down as a "big play" but people who watch the game will remember it as such.

    Then you've got the big catch and run against Philadelphia in the preseason 2017. Then he makes that big long TD against the Minnesota Vikings where he beats Cover Two shell like they were FCS players. He makes that huge catch over Malcolm Butler in the New England game for the TD. Then the big TD against the Chiefs.

    Thing is we're talking about a kid that has had a total of like 30 at-bats so to speak as a wide receiver, and 4 of them end up HUGE plays. Many more of them end up really nice looking plays that could've been highlights under slightly different circumstances.

    He's had like 85 at-bats as a return man, and he I feel like he "only" made around about 3 of those huge plays that way. But again, several more of those returns were really nice, and he's improved his hands tremendously to where you don't really feel all that nervous when he's catching the ball on a punt or kick return. With his ridiculous skills, if he's fine catching the football, it's always going to be just a matter of time until he breaks another.
     
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  2. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Ehhh, on an open forum of fan's...asking one to provide video evidence for every opinion they have is unreasonable. And "internet cred" isn't something that many strive for.

    Not to mention, this isn't a place (nor are many social venues) where one changes their minds very often. We live in a hyperbolic world and digging deep for the truth isn't par for the course.

    That being said, I appreciate the work some put in to it. Look at CK's post for example. I may not agree with the premise, but it was a well thought out explanation of why he feels the way he does. Nothing wrong with, that.
     
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  3. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    who said anything about "every opinion?" I saw something that didn't add up for me I asked for examples given this. I think there should be a credibility thing to it but to each his own.
     
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  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What platform you use to describe what you see is that persons business, the record ultimately earns respect, not gifs..
     
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  5. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    With respect, I think your expectations for a general Miami Dolphins forum are a little high. There are all kinds here where a lot of us don’t have the knowledge you do and never played organized football. Are you saying our posts are a waste of your time?
     
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  6. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    what record are you referring to? lol
     
  7. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    no but I am saying that because of the time I spend and how much I love the game etc. if I get the feeling someone's just way off I'm probably not gonna be engaging them in a lot of back and forth banter. if I'm asking a question of someone it's gonna be more about trying to see what they see that I don't with examples etc. I already have a general idea who here in the non club crowd brings meat and potatoes. and really i'm only on a message board anyways cause I'm looking for that kind of discussion/debate.

    I did 10 years on another site where despite the volume of posters it was very few and far between. I was told I need to join club I probably will.

    football is life the next 6 months. for me at least.
     
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  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    over the years, ones conclusions on evals..
     
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  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's strong enough to be a blog somewhere- very good post! I stated earlier that he's done quite a bit on a handful of touches but you actually broke them down and brought that to life. TY!
     
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  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    a lot of us spend the same amount of time doing this and have the same love..
     
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  11. Superself

    Superself Season Ticket Holder

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    I don't think there is anything wrong with requesting further examples (via gifs or video) that support an argument if it is available. Respect and reputation are cool but leaning on it during a disagreement removes the opportunity for all to learn something.

    Now I'm not saying that everyone should be able to provide evidence for every argument but when your point is challenged, what harm is it to go the extra mile to bring it home? Youtube is still free right?
     
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  12. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Just speaking in general. Not to you and the current situation
     
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  13. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I think if it becomes a deep conversation/debate then yes.

    But if I log on here during week 4 and say “Tunsil is sucking” then one shouldn’t he asked to take the time to breakdown that opinion.

    I broke down 4 game tapes, and because someone didn’t like my answer?? They said my opinion was invalid because I didn’t know what the Wrs routes were...

    So yea. It’s all situational.
     
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  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That’s your opinion and I respect It...and I have done it many times..
     
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  15. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    This summation is on point, as far as I'm concerned.
     
  16. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    I'm not interested in opinions, I was talking about facts and knowledge of the sport. Primarily X&O type of discussions that involve film.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  17. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    You can find a handful of guy's like that in club who enjoy the process and have/take the time to do the research.

    If you aren't interested in opinions, you may need to spend your time there and refresh until those few guy's post something like that.

    Even still, there are not a great deal of "facts" when evaluating the game of football. Way too many variables exist for every player, on every team, in every scheme, in every play, in every situation.
     
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  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Folks can post gifs til the cows come home doesn’t mean they are good at evaluating talent
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
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  19. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    LMAO. Whatever helps you feel better, I guess.
     
  20. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    ?? Feel better about what?

    Not sure what you are talking about. There are facts, like Marino was better than Fiedler.....then you have objective topics like Marino better than Montana.

    I sure hope no one feels they truly have such a great grasp on the game that their opinion becomes fact. I’d hate to break the news to them they are wrong.

    Not sure what the problem is. We don’t all have to agree on everything around here.
     
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  21. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    You're still carrying on about player comparisons and other nonsense, when I made it clear the subject of film work, and showing that work, pertains to scheme, player responsibilities and assignments, etc.
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Absolutely, but you have to remember that 80% of any fan forum is going to be casual fans that don't understand that stuff and don't really care to learn. And that's okay....that's the only way we get a community.

    I remember being at a Miami/Carolina preseason game a few years ago in the nosebleed section. I was trying to explain a concept to the person I was with, but there were these two highly drunk women sitting next to us just laughing and babbling on...they weren't watching football much but they were having a blast.

    I can't remember the down or the play but I saw the MLB take a step backwards and RT instantly audibled- I told the person I was with that we were running right up the middle for an easy first down. One of the drunks hears me and says, "Sugar, that quarterback with the nice butt is going to run it around the side..." and I'll be damned if RT didn't roll into play action and scramble for the first down along the sideline with his legs.

    The woman knew absolutely nothing about football, but the moral of the story is that she had a heck of a lot more fun that night than I did (we lost bad- like 40-14 or some ridiculous number) AND she guessed one play right the entire game. And that's okay....we all enjoy football in our own ways.
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It’s good that you know schematics..good for you..
     
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  24. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Weird standard you are trying to hold everyone to on a message board.

    I’m going with 2-3 guys on this forum who have taken the time to learn and apply while watching a play in slow motion.

    Even then those guys don’t have opinions that are factual. You hate Adam Gase....show me what you have “broken down” to come to that conclusion, and I will show you an OPINION not a FACT.

    You also seem to take a lot of pride in it, strange you expect it to be common amongst guys on a board, yet feel so proud of yourself for doing it. Seems to be an ego thing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
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  25. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    LOL! Funny story! You had me laughing so hard on that one my eyes are watering!
     
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  26. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I'm with Carmen.

    the x's and o's is what I care about.
     
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  27. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    What a mess. You're all over the place and still don't get it.
     
  28. danmarino

    danmarino Let's go Brandon Club Member

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    There are "facts" when it comes to football. Even with the X's and O's there are facts. However, most here are giving opinions. Particularly if you're not the person calling/creating/running the plays.

    For example, CK and 'Pate are excellent at breaking down plays. However, they sometimes disagree on what they are seeing. What does that tell me? It tells me that all of this is mostly opinion. And that's OK. And since none of us are sitting in NFL meetings or designing team plays or running those plays it will always be mostly opinion.
     
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  29. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Because some haven't played or sat thru football meetings, then no one has, and thus football is nothing more then a guessing game around here in X&O analysis . . .

    Wowzers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  30. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Not even close to what I said.

    But troll away, if you were a tenth as great as you thought you were at "X's and O's"you wouldn't be trolling a Miami dolphins message board.

    LOL, best of luck sir.
     
  31. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Because it wasn't meant for you, bub. I'll quote your post when I want to address you.
     
  32. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Of cours there are some facts, but people dont come here to discuss facts yet opinion.

    Issue is we have a guy or 2 who think a little to high of themselves and feel like their opinions are facts.

    Still waiting on the "fact" Adam Gase is a bad coach. Doubt I get that brilliant breakdown.
     
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  33. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Mine was certainly meant for you, either way. :up:
     
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  34. danmarino

    danmarino Let's go Brandon Club Member

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    That's not what I wrote. Maybe I should be a little more clear.


    Opinions can be right or wrong. The difference between a fact and opinion is that one can be proven and the other typically can't. But being unproven doesn't equal wrong.

    For example, on any given play we can watch the film over and over and I could say that Player A had X responsibility and you could say Player A had Y responsibility. We are obviously seeing two different things. Right? You can sit there and tell me all day why you think what you think. And you may be right. However, without asking Gase it's just an opinion. Now, a person that studies football and has years of experience in playing/coaching etc will typically be correct in their opinions. It's still an opinion, however. Why? Because it's unproven.

    Just like my example of CK and 'Pate debating on plays. They both have a lot of X and O knowledge. And yet they disagree on what they are seeing. Who can tell us which one is correct? Me? You? No....Gase, the players in question on the play, the OC, etc are the only ones who can make our opinions facts.

    What we do here is mostly opinion.

    When we say rookie A will be a stud and rookie B will be an All-Pro...opinion.

    When we say the LB had Y responsibility and the S had X responsibility...opinion. Except in the most basic fundamentals. i.e. "the OT's responsibility was to block". That's usually a fact. However, WHO he was supposed to block is typically an opinion unless we called/designed/ran the play. Now, of course those who have the knowledge will typically be correct in their opinion, and can usually show us why they have come to their conclusion, but it's still an opinion.
     
  35. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Incorrect. Player responsibilities/assignments are easily attained information via film study. How the **** do you think coaches, on any level, prepare for their opponents?

    At this point, IDGAF. Carry on in your own little worlds that it's all just some guessing game and no one knows anything concrete about the sport, specific plays, etc.. Enjoy that safe space.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
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  36. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    yeah I don't buy into that stuff at all. I used to break down Miami offense tape on the other site on a play by play basis and grade the qb on each play from pre to post snap and right down to the progressions. I'm not flying by the seat of my pants.

    kindly point me in the direction of the x's and o's posters.
     
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  37. danmarino

    danmarino Let's go Brandon Club Member

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    Again, I never said any of that. And I don't think I can be any more clear so I'm done too.

    One last thing before I go...

    In regards to your first sentence, that's just not true. However, yes, what you THINK are the player's responsibilities/assignments can be attained from film study. And you may be correct in what you think. However, without asking the players, Gase, etc, it's still an opinion.

    And no matter how right you may be, here, on this forum, (sans an appearance from Gase) anything you claim about player responsibility/assignments is an opinion to some. The faster you learn this the faster that chip on your shoulder will whittle down.
     
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  38. danmarino

    danmarino Let's go Brandon Club Member

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    CK, Ronin, Disgustipate, Carmen...off the top of my head...there are more.

    However, you will also find that they disagree on the X's and O's from time to time.

    Again, opinions.
     
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  39. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    thank you I'm jumping in. whether they want me there or not. lol
     
  40. danmarino

    danmarino Let's go Brandon Club Member

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    The Club will welcome you wholeheartedly. You're non-confrontational and know your stuff.
     

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