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Hundreds of Proofs of God’s Existence

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by MrClean, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I found this list of Hundreds of Proofs of God’s Existence. At first I thought the dude was being sarcastic, but then I checked his profile and he portrays himself as a bible believer. How can you argue with the logic behind anything on this list?

    LMFAO

    Hundreds of Proofs of God’s Existence:

    TRANSCENDENTAL ARGUMENT, a.k.a. PRESUPPOSITIONALIST (I)
    (1) If reason exists then God exists.
    (2) Reason exists.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT, a.k.a. FIRST CAUSE ARGUMENT (I)
    (1) If I say something must have a cause, it has a cause.
    (2) I say the universe must have a cause.
    (3) Therefore, the universe has a cause.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.

    ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
    (1) I define God to be X.
    (2) Since I can conceive of X, X must exist.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
    (1) I can conceive of a perfect God.
    (2) One of the qualities of perfection is existence.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    MODAL ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
    (1) God is either necessary or unnecessary.
    (2) God is not unnecessary, therefore God must be necessary.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM DESIGN, a.k.a. GOD OF THE GAPS, a.k.a. TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
    (1) Check out the world/universe/giraffe. Isn't it complex?
    (2) Only God could have made them so complex.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM BEAUTY, a.k.a. DESIGN/TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
    (1) Isn't that baby/sunset/flower/tree beautiful?
    (2) Only God could have made them so beautiful.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM MIRACLES (I)
    (1) My aunt had cancer.
    (2) The doctors gave her all these horrible treatments.
    (3) My aunt prayed to God and now she doesn't have cancer.
    (4) Therefore, God exists.

    MORAL ARGUMENT (I)
    (1) Person X, a well-known atheist, was morally inferior to the rest of us.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

    MORAL ARGUMENT (II)
    (1) In my younger days I was a cursing, drinking, smoking, gambling, child-molesting, thieving, murdering, bed-wetting bastard.
    (2) That all changed once I became religious.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)
    (1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
    (2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM FEAR
    (1) If there is no God then we're all going to not exist after we die.
    (2) I'm afraid of that.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM THE BIBLE
    (1) [arbitrary passage from OT]
    (2) [arbitrary passage from NT]
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM INTELLIGENCE
    (1) Look, there's really no point in me trying to explain the whole thing to you stupid atheists; it's too complicated for you to understand. God exists whether you like it or not.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM UNINTELLIGENCE
    (1) Okay, I don't pretend to be as intelligent as you guys — you're obviously very well read. But I read the Bible, and nothing you say can convince me that God does not exist. I feel him in my heart, and you can feel him too, if you'll just ask him into your life. "For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son into the world, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish from the earth." John 3:16.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM BELIEF
    (1) If God exists, then I should believe in Him.
    (2) I believe in God.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM INTIMIDATION, a.k.a. TOMAS DE TORQUEMADA'S ARGUMENT
    (1) See this bonfire?
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

    PARENTAL ARGUMENT
    (1) My mommy and daddy told me that God exists.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM NUMBERS
    (1) Billions of people believe in God.
    (2) They can't all be wrong, can they?
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM ABSURDITY
    (1) Maranathra!
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM ECONOMY
    (1) God exists, you bastards!
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

    BOATWRIGHT'S ARGUMENT
    (1) Ha ha ha.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

    DORE'S ARGUMENT
    (1) I forgot to take my meds.
    (2) Therefore, I AM CHRIST!!
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
    (1) Eric Clapton is God.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM INTERNET AUTHORITY
    (1) There is a website that successfully argues for the existence of God.
    (2) Here is the URL.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM INCOMPREHENSIBILITY
    (1) Flabble glurk zoom boink blubba snurgleschnortz ping!
    (2) No one has ever refuted (1).
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM AMERICAN EVANGELISM
    (1) Telling people that God exists makes me filthy rich.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

    MITCHELL'S ARGUMENT
    (1) The Christian God exists.
    (2) Therefore, all worldviews which don't assume the Christian God's existence are false and incomprehensible.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM BLINDNESS (I)
    (1) Atheists are spiritually blind.
    (2) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM BLINDNESS (II)
    (1) God is love.
    (2) Love is blind.
    (3) Stevie Wonder is blind.
    (4) Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
    (5) Therefore, God exists.

    ARGUMENT FROM HELL
    (1) I believe in Heaven and Hell.
    (2) God created Heaven and Hell. Heaven for me and Hell for you.
    (3) Therefore, God exists.


    :party: :party:
     
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  2. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    Dude, we all know you believe in God. I do too. But do you really have to be choir boy preaching to us about God and His existence with every other post? I know you're excited that you think you are going to Heaven and all, but seriously, your cheerleading and spearheading of the world-wide religious movement gets a little annoying sometimes...
     
  3. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Sarcasm duly noted, and brought a grin to my face and a mild actual lol.

    I've come to realize this forum is not a place to discuss diverse views on religion and the question of whether or not there is a supreme being dispensing justice to all mankind. This forum is intended for those who do follow a skygod religion to offer comfort and support to one another. It is considered inappropriate for anyone to question their faith in their particular skygod religion. So, I'll try my best to refrain from doing so from now on.
     
  4. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    Yeah? You're just doing it wrong man...
     
  5. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    How so? What is the right way then, in your opinion?
     
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  6. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    You had me at giraffe.The Eric Clapton argument clinched it though
     
  7. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Well that sold me!
     
  8. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    You really want to debate this with me now? I've been drinking Bud Light Platinum. We could have some fun with this maybe, lol.
     
  9. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    It wouldn't require a debate. If you would like to give me your opinion on the right way to go about asking for someone to explain their reasons for believing in a supreme being, then feel free to do so.
     
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  10. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    Dude...How can you look around at all this planet has to offer, then look at the billions of know stars in our own galaxy, and all of the galaxies we know of, and not think that there was some divine intervention involved?
     
  11. Very simple...... I ask the follow up question of who created the creator. The answer lies in the concept of infinity. Matter and energy change back and forth and that process results in the marvels you are in awe of but there is no creator of matter or energy it has existed in one form or another forever. We might be the 1st life form to ever exist or we might be the trillionith, it really does not matter which. Its just our turn right now and maybe it will last a few thousand years or maybe it will last a few thousand milleniums or maybe we will exist forever. There is no evidence that there is an enity orchrastrating any of this. We just need to figure out how to survive in our universe.

    This is why we need to figure out how to colonize space. Once this planet becomes inhabital for us we either need to move or die. No GOD is going to come to our rescue
     
  12. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    The "Buck" always stops somewhere. You should know that...
     
  13. Im not trying to sway your beliefs I was just sharing mine to offer you an alternate perspective. I provided you with my answer to how I think all this can exist without it being created by a god. My answer is I believe in infinity but I had to expand on that to give you propper context of what I mean by infinity.

    One observation I have noticed about you Cash is that you hold some very strong opinions but you also give other peoples opinions their due respect. I give you respect for that.
     
  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    So, you are using either of the 2 following arguments for proof that God exists?


    Here is my point of view in simple terms:

    There is no tangible proof either way in the existence or not of a supreme being. I'm not arrogant enough to emphatically declare without reservation that there is certainly nothing out there, that may be beyond my ability to comprehend, that works against or even manipulates physical law...
    nor am I self centered enough to think that if one being did create everything in the entire universe ever, that he'd give a flying fvck what I did on Sundays, what I ate on Fridays, how I wear my hair, or even who I have sex with.
     
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  15. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    So...your theory is that the entire universe was created by one GIANT FART from outer space. Where did that fart come from? Something had to have created it...Did Nothing have Mexican food the day before? Or was it chili??? LOL
     
  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Make all the jokes about it that you like. That is not my theory young fella. The fact of the matter is, neither you or I, nor anyone else have proof beyond a doubt where it all came from. If it gives you comfort to believe in the Christian bible, then by all means, go for it.
    One more thing I believe, IF there is a supreme being that created everything in the universe ever, he isn't anything like the supreme being described in any of the man made holy books. Religions were all started by men, creating god in their own image as a means for the powerful to control the lower classes.

     
  17. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    And who created the entity who was responsible for this so called "divine intervention"?
    .....and who created the entity who created the entity who created the "divine intervention?
    .....and who created the entity who created the entity who created the entity who created the divine intervention? :wink2:
     
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  18. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Oh, almost forgot to respond to the opening post.

    :sidelol:
    Sheer classic!!.... made all the more classic knowing this dimwit believes what he's saying. lol


    :huh:

    Too bad becoming religious didn't cure the stupid out of him.
    Ah, yes, "the devil made me do it" argument. It's a lot easier for this rapist to believe in the easter bunny and credit a god or blame a devil than accept accountability for his own actions.
     
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  19. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    hey Clean, did you watch Bill Maher's "Religious"?
     
  20. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    ....and just where did your god come from, Cash? Did he miraculously appear?.... create himself with the snap of a finger?
     
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  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I've seen some clips of it on youtube. Classic stuff. Maher has a real knack at pissing off the bible thumpers.
     
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  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Watching it in entirety is quite entertaining.
     
  23. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    He didn't truly go after Islam. Judeo/Christians rarely stab people to death (not in the name of God at least) so it was a free for all in that regard. His intent was to "plant doubt ", and although he went after the Mormon organization a tiny bit, he failed to expose the great business that is cults in America. There is huuuuge money behind this sort of snake oil and there was a lot of potential had he followed the money a little bit more.

    Don't anyone get me wrong, I admire people of faith, but I despise the sheisters who exploit the good faith of these same people for personal gain.
     
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  24. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I think when arguing against religion the most you can do in hopes of having any sort of result is to subtly plant the seed of doubt. Religion employs that tactic, not so subtly though, so it'd probably work as a counter tactic, no? lol
     
  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Personally, I think instead of refuting one's religion, we atheists should refute the need to prove or disprove religion and just promote acceptance. What someone believes is their business and we get upset when they try to shove it down our throats, but then we turn around and do the same thing to them. If our lack of faith is supposedly based in rational thought, the we should stay rational in the face of religion. Getting angry and trying to disprove their faith is not rational.

    I enjoy Maher, Dawkins & Hutchens (when he was alive), but they are too antagonistic, too angry.

    I get it, we deal with hate and bias as atheists all the time. I was told by a boss I was as bad as the employ that went on a crack bender and stole form the company, simply because I'm an atheist. But I don't see the point of acting like him and attacking people for what they believe. His beliefs weren't the problem, its that he tried to make me have the same beliefs that was the problem. That's what he needed to be attacked on.
     
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  26. Very well said! You might want to rethink your postion on it, because this is a very rare occasion that I could not agree more with you. :up: It is the height of hypcrosisy to try and force atheism on others and then complain when others try to force their beliefs on you. We must be able to give tolerance to others if we are to ask it of them.
     
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  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The only difference between a cult and a religion is about 100 years or so.
     
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  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I'd guess you've likely heard this quote by Carl Sagan before, but it seems pertinent as for what you posted about your boss...

    ‎"You cannot convince a believer in anything because his beliefs are not based on evidence, they are based on a deeply rooted need to believe."

    Since you did not share that deeply rooted need, he may have felt that as a threat to his need.

    JMO.
     
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  29. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Hooray for agnosticism!
     
  30. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hundreds of Proofs of God’s Existence

    Believing that there is no God is a belief, as much as believing that there is a God is a belief.
    If we all respect each other's beliefs, we'll save a lot of trouble.
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    IMO...There is no tangible proof either way in the existence or not of a supreme being. I'm not arrogant enough to emphatically declare without reservation that there is certainly nothing out there, that may be beyond my ability to comprehend, that works against or even manipulates physical law...
    nor am I self centered enough to think that if one being did create everything in the entire universe ever, that he'd give a flying f**k what I did on Sundays, what I ate on Fridays, how I wear my hair, or even who I have sex with.
     
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  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
    Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
    Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
    Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
    Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
    But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
    ~ Siddhãrtha Gautama (Buddha)

    If any religion makes sense to me, it would be Buddhism. Buddhists do not consider or believe Buddha to be god, rather simply a very wise man.
     
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  33. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hundreds of Proofs of God’s Existence

    Exactly. And since the evidence is in equipoise, there is a failure of proof by both sides. Consequently, since the existence of God is objectively just as likely as His non-existence, reason dictates that it's time to leave the agnostics and atheists alone regarding their non-belief, just as it's time for the agnostics and atheists to leave the religious alone and stop belittling their beliefs. The plain truth is that we are all entitled to have our personal philosophies respected, whether based on faith or not.

    I myself am a believer and a schismatic Catholic. I think that the Church did far more harm to itself by the silly crap it fed us as children, which was only the leftovers of even stupider crap it tried to feed the faithful before the Second Vatican Council, than the Romans did to it by persecuting it. Very conveniently, the Church has built a Byzantine version of God Who has appointed it as His intermediary, so that it can claim that it has received the keys to Heaven from Him. It then proceeded to abuse its assumed authority. This is why it is having a very hard time retaining the ever-increasing number of people who are educated to think critically. This was true at the time of the Reformation, when millions of people died because of it, and it continues to be true today when children are sexually abused by priests.

    By the same token, the Church does a tremendous amount of good, which is exactly what it should be doing. Whether the hand of God is guiding it to do the right thing more often than not despite its myriad human failings is open for debate, but many of the moral stances it takes based on infallibility sound to me like the same crap as going to Hell because you miss Mass. I understand the allegorical stuff about the good and bad habits you get into determining what your spirit will become, but let's keep it honest and not build an elitist club of the holy and the heathen.

    I don't recall which existentialist thinker (Kierkegaard? Nietszche? Camus? Sartre?) said that even if God did not exist, it would make sense to invent Him. I've often pondered that quote, as well as when some say that personal integrity is the way out of the abyss, whether God exists or not. But I know people who belong to self-improvement quasi-cults that are just as doctrinaire about integrity as the Church is about its concept of religion. Same elitist club idea.

    I personally believe that God is good and that He does not care, as you point out, what you eat on Fridays or what you do on Sundays; those are all man-made rules. But I do believe that there is such a thing as abstract good and evil, and that I will eventually be called to account for the decisions I made in this life, which will determine whether or not my spirit continues some form of existence. What form it will all take, I have no idea, but I do believe that I know right from wrong and, if I choose to do the right thing consistently, I will be fine. The Church would call this a sin of pride, and suggest that it behooves me to follow 2,000 years of reasoned guidelines rather than try to reinvent the wheel in a single lifetime. I will spot it that point, but continue to rely mostly and ultimately on my own reason, with which I believe God equipped me. Whether He did it by instantaneous creation or evolution is totally irrelevant.

    Sorry to have strayed from the original point, and to have pontificated endlessly. On the off chance that you found any of it interesting, I just needed to say all that. Guess I either just went to confession or turned Buddhist. ;-)
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I disagree a bit there.

    The lack of evidence does not mean there's an equal chance something exists to something not existing. There is no evidence of a monster with Elvis' and Hitler's heads on it running around singing show tunes. That doesn't mean there's an equal chance it exists.

    However, I'll say again, trying to prove a belief is trying to take away a belief just as much as trying to disprove it.
     
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  35. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But there is evidence, even if not physical, but circumstantial, hearsay, and anecdotal, that God exists. It's in the Bible, the claimed miracles in places like Lourdes and Fatima in modern times, the Lives of the Saints in ancient times, and many other sources. This has to be weighed against the application of the scientific method (which does not disprove God's existence), the lack of physical evidence of God's existence, the evidence that things have happened that a good and merciful God should not have allowed to happen without intervention, such as the Black Plague or the Holocaust, and the fact that God has not manifested Himself physically to a large enough number of people in modern times, et cetera. If you start weighing all this evidence, there are answers and counteranswers ad infinitum, and you end up with trying to prove a negative, which is logically impossible. That's why the evidence does not favor one view or the other, and there is a failure of proof on both sides.

    I choose to believe. Those who don't simply have a difference of opinion with me, and we should have a few beers together.
     
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I have no qualms with someone who believes, FTR. Believe anything you want that brings peace to you. You just can't prove faith, because once you do its no longer faith by definition.

    Having said that, the Bible is not circumstantial evidence. Its no more evidence then "It" is evidence of a killer ghost clown.
     
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  37. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

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    agreed (on your last point). told that to my god-fearing in-laws over Xmas, that if I were to select a religion, it sure as hell wouldn't be christianity, but likely buddhism. Live by the golden rule, how much simpler can you get?

    there's actually a 400 (almost, 376 years old) church here in Concord that combines elements of Judaism and Christianity (the good parts). kind of a continuation of the transcendental movement that was started by the original thought leaders in the area (Emerson,...) call it logical faith, not blind faith based religion. not about being a sheep in a herd, independent thinking, respecting others. almost un-christian like. Still not enough to make me go to church, but if I had to go, that would be the place.
     
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  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    My cousin, now in his 60s, studied theology for many years as a young man. I think it was his major through 6 years of college. He is very intelligent and well read on all religions of the world. He'd always considered himself Eastern Orthodox since then until about 10 years ago, when he abruptly converted to Buddhism. He went to Japan for several months and studied Buddhism some more at a temple there. I do not know what all it entailed, but maybe to become officially a Buddhist some such thing is required. He is now back here in Portland and goes to the Wat there every Sunday, where all the various denominations of Buddhist go for their worship services.
    I just found it interesting that someone who would know basically all their is to know about the Abrahamic religions would after all those years, decided to renounce it and be a Buddhist. Good for him anyway. That is what I told him.
     
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  39. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

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    Spent last 3 years in grad school in Indiana next to a good friend from India who was a buddhist. Tons of casual conversation on the subject. I've forgotten most of the details, but the overall impression was just outright respect and completely understandable why your cousin would convert.

    and BTW, I'm always jealous every time I see your avatar legend. 4 years in Portland and 2 in Seattle was 6 of the most enjoyable years for me. miss the northwest a ton. Of the 30+ cities I've lived in, those rank 1 and 2, with Boston #3 and everything a very distant length behind.
     
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  40. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    I don't want anything to do with a God that would allow what happened on Friday, December 14, 2012 in Newtown, Connecticut.
     

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