1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Hyde: Ross certain to pursue Harbaugh, Gamble again

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Itsdahumidity, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

    902
    438
    63
    Sep 12, 2012
    Well, yeah. An owner with an ego problem is a good reason why a team might give up a great head coach. Carroll Rosenbloom, anyone?
     
  2. Georgia Fin

    Georgia Fin Fin For Life

    3,004
    1,653
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    West Georgia
    Ross has about as good of a chance of pulling this off as Wheeler did catching Brady. Would be real painful to watch and then 6 weeks of media coverage on how he swung and missed again. He needs to write the checks and let the football people handle the football business.
     
  3. Bumrush

    Bumrush Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    22,778
    21,687
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Isn't that what he has done his entire tenure here?
     
  4. magicap

    magicap Shonuff

    211
    98
    28
    Jan 21, 2012
    Mr Ross please pull this off. Can you imagine the excitement that this hire would bring? season ticket sales would skyrocket. Just think if he just tweeked us like he did the niners and had us competing!? The respect of this once proud franchise would return and Ross would be the absolute man.

    and then I wake up..................
     
    bigbry likes this.
  5. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

    5,284
    3,071
    0
    Dec 18, 2008
    Colorado

    [​IMG]

    Please, this man is a football genius.
     
    Sethdaddy8 and Paul 13 like this.
  6. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

    20,812
    8,967
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Hollywood, Florida
    Gamble would excite me. Harbaugh would not. The more I look there are 5 or so guys I'd much rather have. Harbaugh is better than Philbin so that would be a plus to me.
     
  7. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

    10,176
    10,088
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    Truth is, that happens pretty often. In recent years, the Colts did it with Caldwell, the Cards did it with Haley, the Bears did it with Lovie Smith, etc. Going back a ways, the Colts did it with Shula.

    It seems like the reason -- friction and animosity between Harbaugh and Baalke/front office -- is pretty well known and has been publicly reported for a long time now.
     
  8. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    6,064
    5,128
    113
    Sep 23, 2014
    Any thoughts on why the 49ers brass wants Harbaugh out?
     
  9. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    Perhaps you forget that the Baltimore Colts traded Don Shula to the Dolphins after going to the SuperBowl. That certainly worked out well for the Dolphins franchise for the next two decades plus.

    Sometimes ownership and the head coach just don't see eye to eye and it is best for them to part ways. That appears to be the case with the 49'ers, just as it was with Shula and the Colts ownership in 1970.

    To me, it would be the 49ers loss and the Dolphins gain if Ross is able to bring Harbaugh to Miami. I just think it is more likely Harbaugh will end up with the Raiders, Jets, Giants, or Redskins.

    The Raiders would seem to satisfy his wife's desire to remain in Norther California. I just think she is in for a shock when the Raiders end up moving to LA in the next year or two.

    If he doesn't take the Raider job and he is willing to take a head coaching job on the east coast. The job with the Jets, Giants, or possibly the Redskins would certainly be a more high profile job than the job with the Dolphins.
     
    FinSane likes this.
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    34,224
    24,525
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    you forgot Jerry Jones did it with Jimmy Johnson
     
    FinSane likes this.
  11. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

    11,755
    6,483
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Hamilton, Ontario Canada
    Gamble would excite me because that'd be the first reputable GM we've had ...............ever.
     
  12. Jersey Dolfan

    Jersey Dolfan New Member

    156
    78
    0
    Sep 9, 2012
    Meh. . . everyone is always saying how this team is like groundhogs day, well here it is.

    Crappy season followed by hiring some huge name guy and giving him and his posse all the power based on past success.

    That means BLOW IT UP, draft "his guy" at Qb which ends any chance Tanney has BC they will be salivating for him to fail, being philbins guy. Then if it doesn't pan out, blow it back up and start again. Not I.pressed with this pipe dream.

    Hickey has done well all things considered. But let's fire him for the guy who is starting kapernick and under utilizing many of his weapons and let's sell our collective souls to do it. BC he has a name and Ross went to umich.

    Meh.
     
  13. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

    19,861
    5,792
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Melbourne, Fl
    The Cards did it Whisenhut, Haley was promoted to be the HC of the Chiefs after their SB season.
     
  14. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

    20,812
    8,967
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Hollywood, Florida
    I honestly just think they don't see eye to eye. I'm personally just not sure Harbaugh is the coach he's made out to be. However I do think he's a step up from Philbin. That said of we blow everythibg up I'm not sure its a step forward anyway.
     
  15. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    4,076
    4,642
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    I have yet to read an argument for Jim Harbaugh that doesn't center around his winning record and Play-off appearances.

    There don't seem to be any legitimate reasons why people think Harbaugh is going to succeed elsewhere.
     
  16. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

    22,464
    9,905
    0
    Nov 27, 2007
    DC Metro Area
    Everyone connected to the team, fan or employee, has to realistically have doubts about Ross and his Football related decision making and ability to pull this off.

    Making a list of positives or negatives for Ross on such past moves, the left column slate is empty if one is being honest, but the right column is loaded with blunders.

    Honestly, while money may move the needle, "IF" I was Harbaugh I couldnt actually see myself taking anything Ross says seriously, and frankly would choose to live my life without a person like Ross in it.

    It was either Einstein or Will Rodgers that had a saying about "arguing" with idiots (Yes, from football ownership and on field related decisions, Ross has been an idiot). So to Paraphrase: "Never associate with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience".
     
  17. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

    19,861
    5,792
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Melbourne, Fl
    He's more qualified than Philbin, who was never really GB's coordinator and never even called plays. He put together game plans and picked up gum wrappers.
     
  18. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    25,592
    15,762
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Orlando
    This is the most ridiculous statement I've read on this board in awhile and that is saying something.

    That's like saying, "No one has given me an argument as to why Apple is a great company except their great products and that their company is worth $100 billion dollars"
     
  19. TiP54

    TiP54 Bad Reputation

    10,690
    4,957
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Live from the Internet.
    Wait. Let me comprehend this. This is an impressive post, even by this board's standards.
    You have yet to hear an argument for a coach - whos job is to win - othere than the fact that he wins all the time.

    Tell you what, you take away all those wins from Shula, and what you got? A mediocre coach, amirite?
     
  20. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

    20,812
    8,967
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Hollywood, Florida
    No its not. That is only if you consider all teams to be equal and coaching to be the only factor in winning.

    Its more like comparing an apple salesman to a microsoft salesman and saying one is better based on total sales when in fact there are other factors involved
     
  21. Not So Fast

    Not So Fast Well-Known Member

    1,321
    1,028
    113
    Dec 31, 2012
    Lake Worth, FL
    I concur. It would be epic if he could. But I sincerely doubt his ability.
     
  22. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    25,592
    15,762
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Orlando
    Huh?

    The statement is literally "what has that coach done other than win a bunch of games and get to the playoffs almost year".

    And you're right, there are other factors, like that SF team that everybody says was so talented was 6-10 the year before Harbaugh and Alex Smith was a universally declared bust. One year later they were in overtime of an NFC Championship Game at home that they only lost because of a fumbled punt.

    It was the dumbest thing written on this board in weeks
     
    Sethdaddy8 likes this.
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,613
    152,759
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Even taking aside the ludicrous nature of that statement...let's address it honestly.

    Why is Jim Harbaugh a good coach? I'm gonna go back to why I thought he was a good coach BEFORE he won all those regular season and playoff games in the NFL.

    I've been citing Jim Harbaugh on this board since 2008, when I openly considered it a positive for quarterback prospects to have been coached by Jim Harbaugh. So obviously I've been sold on this guy for a long time. Here is something I wrote on November 8, 2009 in a thread titled "Best College QB I have seen this season" (not started by me):

    Suffice it to say I've been onto Harbaugh a long time before anyone used these "cheap excuses" (ya know, wins and playoffs and all that) as reasons to believe him to be a good coach.

    Fast-forward to December 21, 2010. Tony Sparano is under fire as a head coach. This was months before Ross would have his scandalous dalliance with Harbaugh:

    And then of course on January 4th, 2011...I started a thread entitled "We Need to Hire Jim Harbaugh":

    So if I'm to take your assertion seriously that once you disregard all those pesky NFL wins and NFL playoff wins, Jim Harbaugh doesn't really have anything going for him...I'm just going to have to say, as a guy that has been citing him as a great coach since 2008...I disagree. Pretty strongly.
     
  24. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

    19,861
    5,792
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Melbourne, Fl
    I still can't get over how Ross bungled his way to turning Harbaugh off from us hiring him. Sparano deserved to get fired, but didn't deserve to be backstabbed either. Had we fired him first, we very likely could've had Harbaugh. We also could've tanked the next season and wound up with Luck. Instead, we did as we always do, find a way to screw up a potentially good situation.
     
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,613
    152,759
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Part of it was Steve Ross' fault and part of it wasn't. He said some things during that process that make me think he might have set off Harbaugh's spidey sense a little. But at the same time, Michael Lombardi (close friend of Harbaugh's) believes his biggest mistake was trotting out Jeff Ireland as his GM to pair with Harbaugh. I thought at the time Ireland could even be an attraction because he was a little more proven than a Trent Baalke or Brian Xanders. He had some loose connections with Harbaugh's family. But that just turned out to be not the case as Harbaugh had a lot more experience and rapport with Baalke (fat lot of good it did them, in the end). There could easily have been other things going on though. Maybe Harbaugh's wife got cold feet last minute and really pressed on him to stay in Palo Alto.
     
    FinSane likes this.
  26. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

    20,812
    8,967
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Hollywood, Florida
    It really wasn't that dumb. All he said was he wants someone to explain why Harbaugh is a great coach beyond the win-loss record.

    There is absolutely nothing dumb about that. It isn't uncommon at all for coaches to have immediate success and tail off. To ask for more reasoning is not absurd
     
  27. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    23,089
    19,089
    113
    Dec 19, 2007
    Birmingham, AL
    I've said I like Dan Quinn and I think he'd be a good coach for the Dolphins, especially when paired with Lazor and a quality GM (we might even get a Gamble type GM knowing he were starting with a new coach).

    But, I'd also love a Jim Harbaugh / Gamble combination. And, I'd love to see Ross just hand Harbaugh the keys. Give him a 5 year deal and sell him hard that you want him in Miami for decades. Not necessarily the highest paid coach - but the prospects of Harbaugh developing a long reign in Miami - as BB has done in New England - is very, very tempting.

    And, clearly he is significantly more proven than Quinn.

    If Ross pulled off the Harbaugh-Gamble double - his stock would go up in my book.

    But, whether Ross has the ability to do that or not - is highly debatable. I have great doubts in this owner. He's basically bumbled his way to failure on nearly every single endeavor. So, Harbaugh-Gamble is, at this point, a near pipe-dream to me.
     
    LBsFinest and ckparrothead like this.
  28. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    4,076
    4,642
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    Coaches are usually ex-players so I don't like the argument that Harbaugh's status as an ex-NFL QB is unique. Jim Harbaugh wasn't a great NFL QB, so while he played in the NFL, his performance wasn't beyond that of many NFL coaches. Jim Harbaugh does not have any secrets he's going to whisper in Tannehill's ear.

    The problem I have with his college success is two-fold. For one, the collegiate level is unique and I don't relate it to the NFL. QB'ing in college is infinitely simpler. Secondly, the presence of Andrew Luck means there will be a circular argument going. In other words, who made who? Still, I would've been with you in 2011 that Harbaugh would've been an interesting, if not highly desirable, replacement for Sparano.

    Still, his time in SF raises questions about his ability to develop a team. There was unquestionably talent on the O-line, at RB and on the defense which has allowed the 49ers to excel. When I try an figure out what Harbaugh is directly responsible for however, I start looking at the QB and the development of the passing game, neither of which are impressive. Harbaugh selected an immature and incapable individual over a mature one. On a team that was built to be led by a "game-manager," Harbaugh selected the other option, which also brought into the fray a very immature individual. He's failed to develop that individual at all in terms of NFL QB'ing. CK is not reading the defenses and calling the offense. He's not going through progressions. Kaepernick is a year away from being RGIII. He's a flop. And that was supposed to be what Harbaugh brought to the table, right?

    And thus when we look at SF, we don't see Harbaugh being immensely successful. We see Harbaugh costing the team with his own bad decisions while already capable elements of the team (RB, O-line, D-line, LBers, etc.) have kept the team afloat. Not only did Harbaugh begin with a bad personnel decision, but he's failed to show evidence of his coaching ability at the most key position.

    Everyone recognized that Andrew Luck was a great prospect once they started watching him. Congrats to you for recognizing that early on, but the Dolphins do not have Andrew Luck, nor am I convinced that Harbaugh could develop QBs at the NFL-level. It could certainly be that Harbaugh's voice and experience are perfect for the college game and its developmental QBs. NFL QB'ing is much more complex however and so far, Harbaugh hasn't shown an ability to coach QBs at the NFL level. Meanwhile the guys who are already in place have worked with Aaron Rodgers and Nick Foles during their best stretches.

    Harbaugh's tenure in SF raises real questions about his expertise in personnel and QB-development. He's succeeded with Luck and failed with Kaepernick. If all that can be shown about Harbaugh is that he's dependent upon his QB's ability, then he's no different than your average NFL coach. Mike Smith was Coach of the Year when the Falcons offense looked good, now he's on the verge of being replaced. John Fox was fired because he didn't have a QB to build around and now he's great and coming off a Super Bowl appearance because Peyton Manning is on his team.

    If you can't show me exactly what Harbaugh is going to do for the Dolphins, I'm going to assume that our upside is tied to Tannehill, which puts us in the 11-5 to 12-4 range.

    We're not obligated to fire Philbin who has already shown that he can develop a highly suspect QB prospect at the NFL level. To anyone who's examined the schedule and watched this team when Brandon Albert was here, we're a lock for 10-6 next season anyway. We will make the Play-offs next year if we repeat the season we had.

    We need quantitative reasons for chasing Harbaugh. And that immense risk of firing competent people who are on track for a 10-win season next year had better be a sizable improvment. Too many people are glorifying Harbaugh but there is as much evidence to support him being the next Mike Ditka as anything else. What I'm reading right now is all story-telling and mythologizing. Where is the quantitative upgrade?

    What's the real vision and what is he going to do to improve our roster, our defense and our QB? Those are the practical questions that no one wants to step up and answer. I suspect based on last year's evidence that Hickey and Philbin can improve our roster so Harbaugh and his guy (or Hickey if he stays) have got to be an upgrade.

    So far, Tannehill has developed well under Philbin. How is Harbaugh going to make Tannehill better? Heck, most people are comparing Tannehill to Alex Smith and Harbaugh demonstrated clearly that Alex Smith was not his guy. How ironic can you get?
     
    Larry Little likes this.
  29. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 New Member

    13,099
    6,464
    0
    Dec 6, 2007
    NJ
    It is an utter..utter..coincidence, that the only times that the 49ers or Stanford have been relevant since the 90's, is under Jim Harbaugh. Total coincidence. Put it to bed. Nothing to see. Shut it down.

    Even as a lame duck from week 1, the most successful lame duck ever, with half his team on IR...he is still competing at .500 or better. Meanwhile, that's like as good as we possibly get.

    I will say this for us: The Niners, and those Debartolo family rejects running the show are a dysfunctional bunch, and pooped away a great thing. The first great thing they have been lucky enough to receive, since Eddie was forced out. The Davis kid over in Oak-town is not much better. I do not think Harbaugh wants more dysfunction. I think he wants an owner who will lay down like a rug, so long as he wins. Ross is a super-fan and will do just that. He will get the keys to the kingdom, have final say, and build things as he see's fit...all from the comfort of sunny SoFla. I think there is a lot of reason for him to say "yes" to us. And we will finally have a great thing.

    edit: And watch San Fran return to the laughing stock they were after this season. Years as losers since Eddie left, and his family rejects ran things int the ground. Coaches will be leary of this. That will not be a destination for coaches after all this.
     
    DPlus47, schmolioot and djphinfan like this.
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,613
    152,759
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I like Dan Quinn's resume.

    But there's something that throws me a little off about that resume. So he coaches under Nick Saban, a great defensive coach. Then he goes to the Jets and coaches under Eric Mangini, a defensive coach. Then he coaches under Jim Mora, a defensive coach, then under Pete Carroll, a great defensive coach. Then he coaches at Florida under Will Muschamp, a defensive coach who was just hired to be the deadly flip side of the coin to Gus Malzahn's offense. Now he's back in Seattle to replace Gus Bradley, who parlayed his stewardship of Pete Carroll's defense into a HC job with the Jaguars, at which he seems to be failing.

    Does that make anyone else nervous? On a resume you do like a guy to have experience under great coaches and I think Nick Saban and Pete Carroll qualify. But most of his time coaching was as a defensive line coach under other great coaches. He's only been an NFL coordinator two years and the Seahawks defense was already #1 in the NFL when he took them over, and he's been coaching under a defensive head coach. He was a defensive coordinator at Florida but I think Will Muschamp is actively taking credit for those defenses.

    Based on this you'd have to steer more toward Todd Bowles. He went to Arizona and took over a defense that was mediocre the previous two years, coached under an OFFENSIVE coach in Bruce Arians, and made that defense into a top 5 type of defense. He's certainly in no danger of having ridden anyone else's coat tails on that side of the ball.

    Maybe it's just my way of seeing the Philbin/McCoy thing all over again. Philbin had the more successful offense. But he also had the better talent, coached under people that were directly controlling that offense. McCoy didn't run as successful an offense, but he made things happen with Tim Tebow for christ's sake.

    But it's also kind of my way of being sensitive to Joe Philbin and Tony Sparano...two former OL Coaches and (pseudo) Offensive Coordinators who turned out not to know how to establish good and consistent offense, or arguably even good OL play. If you were to take Dan Quinn away from the Seahawks and put him next to, let's say, Chip Kelly...do we know that he's going to end up with a good defense if he has to build it himself?

    I dunno.

    I wonder that less with a Todd Bowles.
     
    dirtywhiteboy likes this.
  31. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

    19,861
    5,792
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Melbourne, Fl
    Yet he made an average QB like CK look semi-elite for a time and got him to the SB. He even resurrected Alex Smith's career. Not his fault CK's ego blew up and decided to go down the lazy path. That said, Harbaugh is being forced out because he, the GM, & the owner aren't on the same page. It happens in sports all the time. The Sacramento Kings fired Mike Malone for the same reasons despite Malone actually improving the team. Pat Riley fired Stan Van Gundy after he took the team to the ECF. It happens.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    78,613
    152,759
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    LMAO at "we need quantitative reasons to like Jim Harbaugh"...except for the clear quantitative reasons you throw out because they don't say what you want them to say.

    K.

    Well, I tried.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  33. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,621
    2,680
    113
    Dec 16, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    I'm certain there is a reason why the Colts got rid of Shula. Perhaps their owner simply made a huge mistake. Perhaps he and Shula hated each other.

    Just like there was a reason Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson parted ways in Dallas. The problem in that situation was Jerry Jones' ego and his meddling in the team.

    Now... tell me why the 49ers are not just letting Harbaugh go, but are enthusiastically facilitating it. Is the owner making a huge mistake? Does he meddle too much due to his ego? Or, is Harbaugh a cancerous tool? He certainly has that reputation.

    I hear a lot of people clamoring for Harbaugh, but I haven't heard one solid reason why. His coaching record is not impressive enough to warrant all the attention, IMO. Not to mention that he's only had 3 head coaching jobs, and not one of them has lasted more than 4 seasons.

    So... why are the 49ers letting him walk?
     
    DolphinGreg likes this.
  34. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

    19,861
    5,792
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Melbourne, Fl
    Clearly there's more to being a HC than winning games, Super Bowl appearances and player development. We don't know what that is yet, but according to DolphinGreg Harbaugh isn't very qualified. It's a good thing he's not working for Ross.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  35. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

    19,861
    5,792
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Melbourne, Fl
    ONLY 3 head coaching jobs??? That's more than Philbin has and more than many other NFL coaches.
     
  36. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

    902
    438
    63
    Sep 12, 2012
    I just don't get why people are so vehemently opposed to Harbaugh for the reason that the 49ers want him out of there. If anything, the incredibly dysfunctional and stupid way that the 49ers have gone about trying to get rid of him should make it very, very clear that there are real issues within that organization that go far beyond Jim Harbaugh.

    You realize that before this season even started, the 49ers essentially cut the legs out from Harbaugh and the entire team by telling everyone who would listen that they tried trading him to the Browns and that he's 'done' there at the end of the year even if they win the Super Bowl, right? Because that's what they did. Nobody leaked that "Jim Harbaugh is done with the 49ers no matter what happens," because that's not what's happening. The ownership is hell-bent on getting rid of the guy, and is more concerned with looking right and pushing their side of the story than about having a winning season in 2014.

    Way to set your coach and your team up to fail, guys. You're totally not the problem. The coach, the guy who took you from 6-10 to 13-3 with the same damn roster, that guy is the problem.
     
    DPlus47 and djphinfan like this.
  37. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,621
    2,680
    113
    Dec 16, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Other than the fact that... well... that he hasn't actually won all the time.
     
  38. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

    19,861
    5,792
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Melbourne, Fl
    Has Philbin?
     
  39. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

    5,284
    3,071
    0
    Dec 18, 2008
    Colorado
    Winning? Its overrated.
     
  40. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,621
    2,680
    113
    Dec 16, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Read what I wrote over and over until you actually understand what I said. I never criticized him for the number of head coaching position he had. It was a criticism of the fact that he has never lasted more than 4 years anywhere he's been a head coach.

    Good lord. :pity:
     

Share This Page