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I’ve seen this movie before.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Pauly, Nov 8, 2021.

  1. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    This season is reminding me very much of the final years of Wannstadt, Sparano, Philbin and Gase. The players to me seem to have clocked off for the season and doing the bare minimum to keep their salaries. I know people will say they’re well paid and should be putting in total effort, but the rot starts at the head.

    What causes highly motivated, well credentialed professionals to clock off? The short answer is that the boss puts them in a position with no path to success. In the NFL you create a situation where the players have no path to success through poorly designed schemes, poorly implemented schemes and failure to acquire talent at positions where it’s needed

    Flores has been taking action to change his coaching staff when he sees an area that has been lacking. That is a good thing but it runs into the crocodile problem. The crocodile problem is that if you remove a big crocodile from a spot in a river that spot doesn’t remain unfilled, the spot is taken by the next crocodile and the next crocodile might be bigger or meaner than the first crocodile. Making changes at positional coaches who are underperforming is good. Not making an upgrade when you do so is bad.

    Failure to upgrade talent is another problem. We saw it with Wannstadt who kept Fiedler rather than accepting him as a very capable backup who should be replaced with a talented starter. We saw it with Gase who believed his scheme didn’t need no stinking guards. Players see what the fans can see and think the coach/GM isn’t trying to win. Not getting talent at RB was a sign to players that Flores/Grier didn’t know what it takes to win. It isn’t whether the possible draftee or FA signee would have been better, it’s that there was no effort that’s the signal the players received.

    Lack of confidence in the QB. At the moment I’m seeing Tua as a re-run of the Tannehill situation. If you want your QB to play with confidence you have to let them play without handcuffs. You have to give them the opportunity to succeed. We suffered through countless Tannehill threads and posts going back and forth and it’s very similar to the comments about Tua.
     
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  2. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Wait, can we sign some crocodiles to block? Is that legal? I’d be down for that rather than Jackson/Davis.
     
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  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wholeheartedly believe that we've had to promote from within because very few professionals believe in "Grier's vision"...cut everyone, build through the draft, be a perennial playoff contender. You have to remember, Gase turned down working in the Flores/Grier system...and Flores only got the job after multiple candidates turned down an offer. Same story with Grier. So just right there, before a single snap was even taken, we had multiple people say, "no thank you."

    Getting into 2019 though, nobody wanted to sign on for a gutted team with a vision. It's basically career suicide and the only way we got Flores (with zero head coaching experience) was with a 5-year guarantee. We didn't just throw that in there to be nice- people legit didn't want to come to Miami only to be fired a few years later since you rarely get two chances at being a head coach. So when you know you'll stink in year one, its just not appealing.

    After that first season though, I don't think people were on-board with Tua since he was coming off major injury and his film showed him in one of the best offenses ever in college football. Personally, I've come around on Tua and I think he's fine as our QB1, but he was forced into action by the front office last season when he clearly wasn't ready. The league notices that kind of stuff, the owner/GM interference, and again...it's career suicide to accept a position where you'll have one hand tied behind your back. That's why we couldn't bring in any coordinators this season and why almost everyone was promoted from within.

    Personally, I don't think the players have "clocked out" and I don't think this is a bad team. I do believe, however, that there's no easy fix in sight with Ross as the owner and Grier as the GM. I think they made some really bad moves coming off a 10-win season expecting 1st and 2nd year players to be the best in the league, so they made some dumb cap moves and crippled what could have been a playoff-caliber team. We just drafted too many projects and forced them into the starting lineup before they were ready...and that's 100% on the front office for the moves we made.

    I don't fault Jackson or Eichenberg, for example...they're young studs playing as hard as they can. I don't fault Tua either. But I do fault the front office for creating this culture vacuum where veterans are ejected and young players are expected to step up immediately, without the proper coaching or mentorship. And honestly, it's hard to blame Flores as well since his hands have also been tied...he had his playoff team and the front office gutted it.

    Next year we have some healthy cap space and hopefully we draft/sign well- that's this organization's only saving grace. To be fair, the cap numbers did shrink due to COVID and we did have to make some tough cuts...but we should have cut guys like Wilson/Grant instead of Van Noy and other positional leaders. But this also comes back to the central question- can we find quality talent to fill out not only the roster, but the coaching room and the front office as well? I don't know if that's possible anymore in a Grier system.

    But that brings us back to the crocodile problem- if not Grier/Flores, then who? I just don't see candidates banging down the door next season.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2021
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    Well said.
     
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  5. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the Patriot way works when you’ve got a HoF QB and you’re winning Super Bowls. For any other team, gutting your veteran leaderships, especially when you’re rebuilding through the draft and very young, is suicide to the results of the team and we’re seeing that.

    The only thing that could make sense here unless we’re just our usual dysfunctional selves, is if Ross told them no matter what, they’re getting 4 years guaranteed. So then they’re goal is to get as much experience as possible this year for our young guys and hope like hell that turns into a playoff contender next year.

    I have a hard time seeing that but who knows.
     
  6. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    No way in one offseason we can fix the holes and issues this group has brought to the team over the last 4 years.

    Ross has to either fire the entire staff or resign Flores who I personally like but hasn’t earned another 3 year contract.

    I think what will happen is Ross gives them one more year. Grier will spend money on free agency and Flores will hire some new coaches.

    Mai believe we will be a better team next year 9-10 type team and Ross will have to decide what to do.

    so we will be in a confusing spot where we improved so we fire everyone or do we stick with this 3-4 more years..

    Ross doesn’t want to start over I’m sure so he may just convince himself this is a weird off year and keep everyone

    In other words we are doomed to being a mediocre average NFL franchise for the next 5 years
     
  7. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I just wonder how much of last year was luck vs losing 4-5 veterans at key areas?

    I think Tua has played as well as Fitz minus the durability. Our OL is clearly much worse this year without Karras and Flowers. Can adding 1 or 2 veterans in FA plus Liam, Hunt and Davis field a decent OL?

    Our pass rush has taken steps back too. We replaced Van Noy and Lawson with a rookie who’s transitioning from having his hand in the ground to standing up. Maybe he’s going to be all world but so far I’ve been underwhelmed. Once again, could we add a veteran value pass rusher(s) and fix that?
     
  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Personally, I think it makes a massive difference. People are so stuck on "you are what your record says you are" but we've lost five close games this season....and we won about six super-close ones last season. About a dozen total plays can flip all those wins and losses- we could be 6-3 right now and last year could have EASILY ended at 4-12. Good teams win close ballgames though.

    I'm not trying to make excuses here, so I hope nobody takes this the wrong way...but we're pretty much the same team as last year minus a few very important minor pieces. Just with Karras, Flowers and Van Noy, I think we win a few of this year's losses. With Fitzpatrick as well, maybe we win 3 or 4 of them (especially since Brissett has started several games).

    Overall though, I still feel like we're close to a playoff team...even at 2 total wins. We need veteran line help. We need 1 or 2 veteran pass rushers. And then we need a few healthy, dependable receivers (they don't have to be world breakers w/ Tua's accuracy). That's 5 or 6 people and I feel like we could compete with just about anyone.

    Again though, I'm not saying with five players we'd blow out Buffalo or Tampa. I'm saying we could compete with the big dawgs and win consistently against average teams.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2021
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  9. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    But then again, the Patriots never gutted thei roster of all their veterans. They always had EXPERIENCED leaders on the field with their young bucks
     
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  10. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I 100% do not think we are "close to a playoff team" here. The poor record in close games indicates not just a lack of talent but of coaching. We have taken immense steps backwards this year across the board. Our highest paid defenders aren't playing like their salary says they should and the offense is absolutely horrendous. We need complete revamps of at least 3 offensive aspects - OL, WR and RB. We may need a new QB depending on how one feels about Tua's availability. We may need TE revamp depending on if we bring back Big Mike or not. And our offensive staff is bottom of the league with no clear upgrades or path to next year.

    This team is straight trash - it more and more looks like we grossly overachieved and got lucky last year and were probably closer to a 6 win team that is now worse off and underachieving as well.
     
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  11. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    With the cap space and a top 10 pick in 2022 and two firsts in 2023 I could see a GM wanting to come to Miami. If a regime change occurs, finding a head coach and supporting staff should be easier. The time for change is after this season before Grier makes a mess of the cap in a win now panic.
     
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  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Post of the year imo
     
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  13. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I cosign the original post. The problem with Flo isn't that he has no confidence in Tua, though. Flo has no confidence in any of his players and he's signaled that to them. He's a low-rent Bill Belichick but without the credentials. Being a quick-triggered butthole might work if you have a couple of chips in your case, but being that guy when all you have is a ring earned with your previous team is problematic once things go bad. Especially when your hammer comes down on players who are popular in the locker room. The reason why either Flo/Grier will be jettisoned or Tua (if not both) is that there have to be players that know that they're next to be removed for the coach's subjective opinion of their fit on his team.
     
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  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To your point about Flores having his hands tied.

    Have you noticed his game day body language?

    He literally walks around with his hands behind his back for 90% of the time.
     
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  15. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Couldn’t have said it better myself. This is why I think Ross is ultimately the problem.
     
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  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yup, it really all comes back to him and the available candidates before we even hired Grier/Flores. One after the other people said 'no thanks' and that's entirely because of Ross.

    I think the other part of that is how badly Ross wanted Lamar Jackson- him being right may have emboldened him to be more involved in personnel decisions. I also can't help but wonder if it's part of the reason why we just called such a fantastic game against Baltimore. Maybe it was Flores silently saying, "Enough with this Lamar Jackson and DeShaun Watson stuff!" I personally feel for Flores, he's been sandbagged at every turn and has done admirably under the circumstances.
     
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  17. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Okay, question.

    Do we have definitive proof that Ross is involved in player personnel decisions?
     
  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes, we do...we have a history of Ross being involved. For instance, he met with Watson last week to talk about joining the team.

    Historically, Ross has been a presence by consensus...meaning he asks everyone he knows with ties to the league what they think he should do, who he should hire, how good his roster is, etc. It's smart in a way, to trust people with higher football IQ's, but he talks to so many people that he's bound to end up with conflicting advice.

    Those conversations are a big part of the reason we have trouble finding quality GM's and coaches as well though, because nobody wants to take a job, do what they think is best, and then have an owner tell them, "Well, I talked to Marino the other day and he had this idea you can try..." Nobody wants every move they make second-guessed.

    This past season, Ross was very vocal that he wanted to trade up to #1 overall for Burrow...after he wanted to tank for Tua. A few years before, he was adamant on Lamar Jackson, while also being adamant the previous season of hiring a coach who could develop Tannehill into a top-10 QB. Lots of coaches said "no" because of that requirement- they didn't want to be locked in and Gase was one of the few who saw talent in RT. The problem is that Ross is a fan, he's not an active owner, and what he wants to do changes based on the last football mind he talked to.
     
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  19. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    You have a source for that?
     
  20. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    It's out there that they met but it was about his legal issues and his intention to settle or fight them.
     
  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The majority is common knowledge through the media, while the rest was from a private source with ties to the team. I haven't had a direct source for about two years now, but it's pretty evident how things have shaken out that Ross is still passively involved.
     
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  22. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Not my intent to sound combative, but let's be real here. You're the owner of a professional NFL team. As the HMFIC, are you or are you NOT going to be involved in WHO you want on your team? I seriously doubt any GM is going to tell the owner "no" to a player he or she wants. That GM, if he's good and has a good relationship with the owner will discuss it with the owner...give him/her the pros and cons and recommendations on who the team should get but bottom line, if anyone here truly thinks any owner, to include our moronic owner in Stephen Ross doesn't influence who is on the team is being a bit naïve in my opinion.
     

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