I guess the debate is over..Dion Jordan is a 265 lb def end.

I don't know what to think.

i just hope the use the entire skillset depending on the matchup..

bulking up isnt going to make you a better pass rusher...

He needs to focus on one thing first. Get to the QB. Do that and then explore his versatility. Jason Taylor didn't become the terror he was until later in his career.

Watch Philbin's PC from today. He said that they want him to concentrate on being a DE, but that 3rd down is "...its own animal and we'll do what we need to do to get off the field." He also pretty much said, without directly saying it, they still plan on using Dion Jordan in capacities that they used him in last year.

"RoninFin4 wrote:

Watch Philbin's PC from today. He said that they want him to concentrate on being a DE, but that 3rd down is "it's own animal and we'll do what we need to do to get off the field." He also pretty much said they still plan on using Dion Jordan in capacities that they used him in last year.

Exactly... plus it's day 1 of OTA and we all know not to put too much stock into any opinion from either Armando or Omar...

Oooooh, kill 'em!

Part of me wonders if a hall of fame piece of potential will be used only at a Pro Bowl level by this coaching staff, and whether another staff with another scheme (3-4) may have given the world an unforgettable experience of watching Jordan play.

There are very very very few men who could move the way he did at his college weight. He covered SLOT receviers in college AND rushed the QB over a Left Tackle.

Very rare.

Also, I'll be watching to see what cost all that weight training has had on his fluidity in his hips and his flexibility. There is no agilibity or athleticism without those remaining intact. Why get Dion Jordan and turn him into Olivier Vernon?

All that said, btw.. I think his greatest impact and value in terms of wins will come as a DE sacking the QB or tipping passes, with the occasional INT on a pass drop, or forced fumble when he chases down a reverse.

"Bpk wrote:

Also, I'll be watching to see what cost all that weight training has had on his fluidity in his hips and his flexibility. There is no agilibity or athleticism without those remaining intact. Why get Dion Jordan and turn him into Olivier Vernon?

Turn him into a faster, quicker Olivier Vernon

"djphinfan wrote:

I don't know what to think.

i just hope the use the entire skillset depending on the matchup..

bulking up isnt going to make you a better pass rusher...

Bulking up could make you a better pass rusher as it gives you more strength to take on blocks. It also should help him become a better run defender which should keep him on the field more.

In a way I feel for the kid. Imagine him on one of these great 34 fronts like in Pittsburgh or Houston. That's where he'd be at home, wreaking absolute havoc.

I dunno. When you take a guy in the top 3 he better be a pass-rusher first. There's no question that's the high-impact spot. You want him to take over for aging Cam Wake as a featured edge rusher because those elite edge guys are hard to find. That said, athletes like Dion Jordan are hard to find too. It's tough. It'll all sort itself out on the field though. They know he has multiple talents and used him as such last year even in limited snaps.

I've said this before, but I really think the usage and development of Jordan is the key to getting this team to the playoffs. He's the guy who'll get us over the hump, or not.

"sports24/7 wrote:

Bulking up could make you a better pass rusher as it gives you more strength to take on blocks. It also should help him become a better run defender which should keep him on the field more.

Plus one of his weaknesses was lack of an inside move. If he can put that in his quiver then that extra muscle will be a boon to his play.

There's a picture of Brandon Albert catching a ball on the main site (don't ask) with Dion Jordan in the background. Shoulders and upper arms look much bigger than last year. Let's see if it will match his technical growth.

I can see him being successful as a 4-3 end but it's hard to look at what he did at Oregon and come away thinking that's the best way to use him. I like the player and good players find ways to be good regardless of the way you're using them, but I didn't view him to be worthy of the #3 overall pick even as a 3-4 outside linebacker, and least of all as a straight up defensive end.

What's even more difficult about this is knowing Miami had opportunities to trade Jordan this off season, and they didn't take those chances even though they don't really have anything special up their sleeve as far as plans to get more value out of him on the field. They're going to continue to stick him behind Olivier Vernon and Cameron Wake as a defensive end.

Except now they're so high on Vernon because of a nominal sack total that it'll take an apocalyptic drought from Vernon before they consider putting Jordan over him on the depth chart.

Basically Dion Jordan needs an injury to happen. If it's an injury to Vernon that could be beneficial to the team but if it's an injury to Wake (which is more likely given age and recent experience) then the team gets worse no matter how good (within reasonable limits) Jordan turns out to be.

I don't think this is too significant. It's just saying that he is going to continue to be a defensive end in the base package. I don't think they're going to decrease his workload in coverage, and I don't think the additional weight is likely to dramatically diminish his abilities in that area.

It seems from the report that they want to limit how many coverage reads he has to make. Its very likely that making those reads negatively impacted his ability to rush the passer. The reads one has to potentially make as a stand up rusher aren't necessarily easy, and they often are going to be a detriment to getting off the ball quickly.

I dont think that 265 lbs should be a detriment to his ability to cover. If anything is holding him back there, it seems like the mental aspect.

Since there had been no statements coming from the Dolphins previously that Jordan would compete at one of the LB spots, him remaining as a DE is really no great surprise. Unfortunately with Vernon and Wake ahead of him as the DE starters, Jordan may be used in much the same way was last year.

While he may be more productive this season, because he hopefully won't be dealing with injury issues. If he is not able to become a starter in his second year in the NFL, you have to really wonder if the Dolphins gave up too much in the 2013 draft to move up and take him with the 3rd overall pick in the last. Last year can be excused because he was dealing with an injury all season. Now though, he needs to step up and become the stud DE he was projected to be when the Dolphins drafted him. Hopefully he can beat out Vernon for a starting DE position. Of course this will only happen if the coaches are convinced he has drastically improved against the run.

Some individuals seem to want to compare Jason Taylor and Jordan. Obviously this is because they both have similar body types. The main difference is that Taylor wasn't drafted until the 3rd round of the 1997 draft. At the time, he was projected as someone who could come in and develop over the next few years. Instead he came in and started 11 games during his rookie season. He went on from there to have what may eventually turn out to be a Hall of Fame career.

Jordan was the first defensive player drafted in 2012 and was expected to come in and make an immediate impact. Injuries last year prevented him from reaching what is hopefully great potential, but so far the only comparison between Taylor and Jordan is their body type. Because right now, Jordan has a long way to go and a lot to improve on in his game before he can even begin to be compared to the great Jason Taylor.

Don't worry, we'll probably run the 3-4 with our new coaching staff next year.

"invid wrote:

There's a picture of Brandon Albert catching a ball on the main site (don't ask) with Dion Jordan in the background. Shoulders and upper arms look much bigger than last year. Let's see if it will match his technical growth.

Voila!

http://www.miamidolphins.com/multimedia/photo-gallery/PHOTO-GALLERY-Dolphins-OTA-1/3b109036-1fa8-4136-8eb8-d8495d4cda1a#24e3c97c-fe71-40b3-b24c-cf8b0ae1f30e

What was his playing weight last year?

Combine he weighed in at 248lbs... but ESPN and NFL.com had him listed at 260lbs...

How much weight are we talking?

"Galant wrote:

Voila!

http://www.miamidolphins.com/multimedia/photo-gallery/PHOTO-GALLERY-Dolphins-OTA-1/3b109036-1fa8-4136-8eb8-d8495d4cda1a#24e3c97c-fe71-40b3-b24c-cf8b0ae1f30e

#95, on the right side..

"ckparrothead wrote:

I can see him being successful as a 4-3 end but it's hard to look at what he did at Oregon and come away thinking that's the best way to use him. I like the player and good players find ways to be good regardless of the way you're using them, but I didn't view him to be worthy of the #3 overall pick even as a 3-4 outside linebacker, and least of all as a straight up defensive end.

What's even more difficult about this is knowing Miami had opportunities to trade Jordan this off season, and they didn't take those chances even though they don't really have anything special up their sleeve as far as plans to get more value out of him on the field. They're going to continue to stick him behind Olivier Vernon and Cameron Wake as a defensive end.

Except now they're so high on Vernon because of a nominal sack total that it'll take an apocalyptic drought from Vernon before they consider putting Jordan over him on the depth chart.

Basically Dion Jordan needs an injury to happen. If it's an injury to Vernon that could be beneficial to the team but if it's an injury to Wake (which is more likely given age and recent experience) then the team gets worse no matter how good (within reasonable limits) Jordan turns out to be.

I don't think those are legitimately problems.

I'm not sure what you perceive to be the ideal use of Dion Jordan to be. Nominally he was a defensive end, but PFF has him in coverage what, 18% of his passing down snaps? That's pretty standard for a 3-4 OLB, and the circumstances are different. I'd go so far as to say that Dion Jordan was asked to do "harder" things in coverage than pretty much anyone with a similar background. James Harrison is pretty much the gold standard for coverage for an edge rusher, and I don't think I'd ever see or particularly want him to do Brian Urlacher-style centerfield drops like Jordan can do.

Likewise, I'm not sure why Olivier Vernon is that big an obstacle either. You can get three edge defenders enough work. You can get more than that, especially when they're position flexible. You've already seen the packages put on the field.

"FinNasty wrote:

What was his playing weight last year?

Combine he weighed in at 248lbs... but ESPN and NFL.com had him listed at 260lbs...

How much weight are we talking?

12lbs is a lot. I didn't see him shirtless but I assume he was 8-10 % bodyfat. So 12lbs of added muscle is significant. Especially since he said he focused on strength and not hypertrophy.

12 lbs is a good number. Not too much to hurt his athleticism but enough to make him a challenge.

"Clark Kent wrote:

12lbs is a lot. I didn't see him shirtless but I assume he was 8-10 % bodyfat. So 12lbs of added muscle is significant. Especially since he said he focused on strength and not hypertrophy. 12 lbs is a good number. Not too much to hurt his athleticism but enough to make him a challenge.

More than that though. Jordan said he was hovering around 265.