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I hate this plan

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by tirty8, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Undoubtedly, the Tank for Tua plan is officially in Stage 1, and I cannot state it enough, it is a stupid plan. I just keep thinking to myself, "there are just so many ways that this plan does not work, and it blows up in our face."

    Problem #1 - no one is going to try to lose. I literally do not think that a single player or coach is willing to go out there and lose on purpose. Contrarily, I think every player and coach will in fact do their very best to win. Let's just say, we start Jake Rudock, and we say, "we need you to lose," there is no way he would. He is getting his big chance, and even if he does a decent job, he could get life changing money. Look at guys like Trevor Siemian and Brian Hoyer. Just hanging around rosters have made them rich men. These guys know that the Dolphins are going to be bad next year, but these guys also know that football is their job and doing it well is very lucrative. Although they will be playing for the Dolphins, they know 31 other teams are watching.

    Second of all, think about the coaching staff. These guys are professionals too, and they know that being one and done is a real thing. Now many people will say that Flores and almost certainly his staff were fully informed that they were entering a rebuild, and they are going to get multiple years to rebuild the team. That is true, but never forget, things can change in an instant. Imagine if Jim Harbaugh said he wanted to come back to the NFL. I am 100% positive that Ross would seriously consider hiring him. Flores knows that if he is a one and done, he could go down the road of Cam Cameron and never get another sniff as a HC again. On the other hand, suppose Rudock went out there and played well and the offense really clicked. Other teams would recognize the fact that the Dolphins are not very talented on offense, and O'Shea got a lot out of a little. You could easily see him on the fast track to becoming a HC himself.

    These guys have every incentive to win.

    Problem #2 - Our defense could be good. If you put a gun to my head, and made me guess who we are taking in the first round, I would say the best edge guy available. The edge guys are extremely talented, and we could draft a potential super star. Flores is a defensive guy, and this makes sense. Moreover, we have a TON of talent in the secondary. If we used an additional early draft pick or two on the defense, we could be respectable quickly. If our defense does get vastly improved we could find ourselves in a bunch of low scoring games. If we happen to win just a handful of those games, the number 1 pick could slide out of our hands.

    Problem #3 - Bad, but not bad enough. In order for this plan to work, we absolutely have to get the first pick in the draft. Even if we have the 2nd pick in the draft, obtaining the first pick could be virtually impossible. Imagine if we are terrible, but the Giants are worse. We have zero chance of getting Tua. There are probably handful of teams in contention for the first pick in the draft. Also, never forget, the Colts were Super Bowl contenders when they got the first pick and drafted Luck. Manning got hurt, and don't forget, they brought in Kerry Collins, and still wound up being worst team in football. Some team could get the injury bug in the preseason, and wind up coming out of left field to get the first pick in the draft. Call it a hunch, but if Big Ben went down in the preseason, I could see the Steelers being the team.

    Problem #3 - Tua stays. Suppose Tua is having a great time in Bama, and he wants to stick around for one more year, or maybe he wants to hone his skills a little more. There is no guarantee that he leaves. What is worse. What if we tank perfectly. We go 0-16, 1-15, or 2-12, and his family looks and says, "Tua, the Dolphins are so bad. You are doomed to fail. They will expect you to turn the entire team around, and they are asking way too much. Go back to school, and let someone better draft you."

    Now again, contrarians would say, "hey, even if we don't tank perfectly, we could most likely get Herbert or Fromm." I would say, maybe. Even if we get the fourth pick, these guys could be off the board with no hope of trading up. Odds are, if a team is drafting in the top 3, it is because they need a QB. The other problem is that if we do actually get Tua, it might all be worth it, but if you told me today that we should tank for Fromm or Herbert, I would be critical of that plan. Those guys don't feel like franchise changers to me. If you miss by tanking by an inch or by a mile, it is the same.

    Problem #4 - Doublethink - In George Orwell's classic 1984, he discusses the paradoxical thinking that happens all too often. Essentially, people reconcile believing two totally opposite things in their minds. In this case, it would involve us thinking that we are going to be the worst team in football while at the same time having a solid draft this season. Moreover, we will have a corps of guys (Minkah, Baker, Tunsil, Howard, Jones, McCain, Drake, McMillan, Wilson) + our draft picks will be the absolute worst team in football, while at the same time, we think that the very same corps of guys will be the guys that will eventually be the cornerstones of a Super Bowl team. I just have a hard time believing that both of those statements could possibly be true.

    Let me be clear, I would absolutely love to get Tua, but I think that this plan is easier said than done. I think that even if executed perfectly, there are far more ways that the plan fails than it works.

    I really think that this is a bad plan.
     
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  2. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think this is a real plan.
     
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  3. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    My head hurts.
     
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  4. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Do people seriously think a professional GM has as a valid Plan A: "walk up to random players and demand they **** themselves in public?"
     
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  5. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Most importantly, no matter what any plan is by ownership and the front office, no one is ever, ever going to tell the players to play poorly or to lose. What could happen is that the front office, in a mixture of desire to save cap space and earn a high pick, provides the coaches with some really lousy players at a variety of positions. And then those players go out and aren't good enough to win games.

    And really, its not like we're starting with an OK team and trying to do this. Last year, they were the #31 offense, and the #29 defense! They already sucked! Subtract the proven players at a few positions, and they're going to be worse.
     
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  6. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

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    Grier has said many times that no one is going to purposely try and lose. Our coaches will coach and teach their best, and our players will try to learn, do their job, and play their heart out. They all will try to win every game. I think the plan is for us to try and accumulate as many draft picks as we can in the event we need to try and trade up next year. Not sure how I feel about it, but if Lock is there at 13 then I think we take him. If that happens then next year could have some extra picks in play if we don't use them to trade up.

    Time will tell if this is a good plan or not. I have learned to live with it. In a way, I can understand why they are trying something new. The band-aid approach wasn't working. A lot of the FA we would sign ended up hurt and underperforming. With all the injuries and inconsistency, we just couldn't get over the hump. I am eager as any here for us to field a competitive team, but as it has been said around here many times, it will probably take a while. If we can get a franchise QB first, then we can build the team around him. If we can't get a franchise QB first, then let's build the team and then when we get our guy, plug him in.
     
  7. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Active Member

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    I was thinking about this the other day, is there anyone that has gotten injured during the draft process this year that could still end up going in the first round? I vaguely remember seeing posts on here about prospects getting injured but I can't remember if any of them were serious injuries. The reason I ask was, is there a possibility that we end up picking somebody that's injured for the first season with the intention of him essentially joining us next season when healthy and not getting any on field production from them at this point when we're aiming to be bad.

    Does that make any sense to anybody?
     
  8. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    There are potentially some injured prospects who miiight be worth it in round 2-3 like the DT from Notre Dame (Jerry Tillery). But we better ****ing not pick anyone at 13 who isn't playing. All told, I would much rather get players who can play. Gotta evaluate.
     
  9. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    It’s time to tear it down and build it the right way. The reality is we aren’t even close. We’ve been hemorrhaging for years with stop gap solutions, free agency and bloated contracts to maintain the delusion of success. To me 6-9 wins isn’t success.

    Outside of Howard, Grant, Stills, Tunsil,Drake, Howard, Fitzpatrick and some younger players, most of our roster is garbage. Keep that core intact. Let everyone else go. Draft, build, resign when warranted and let’s see where we’re at in 3-4 years.
     
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  10. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think the Dolphins FO is sitting there right now chanting over and over "tank for tua" during every meeting. As you've pointed out, there's several reasons why that's an issue. Teams just don't think that way.

    I think the greater plan here is simply lets get rid of the under performing, overpaid, aging players that aren't going to be a part of the future of this team, and lets help the cap numbers reset themselves a bit. Is the end game obtaining a rookie QB? Yup. It has to be. That's how the league is set up now. Get a stud young QB, once you know he's got it, dump all your resources into building around him. See... Cleveland. The Jets. Seattle when Wilson came around. Ride that wave of success for as long as you can until you have to pay the QB. Then the real challenge comes in. So are we making moves right now with that type of plan in mind? In my opinion, yes. We are. Are they sitting back right now doing it with the intent to get #1 and take Tua? I don't think so. As you've stated, too many reasons why that's a bad idea. I dont believe teams work that way. If we were, I think you'd see us getting rid of guys of real value. We've let Wake go... lets face it, he's done all he can do for us. Paying him again now won't help this team's future. Sitton... same thing. Amendola... same thing. James... same thing (especially for the contract he got). These are guys who weren't part of a rebuild. If we were unloading guys like Drake, McMillan, Baker, Howard, then I'd say we're in full blown tank mode. Right now, we're just in a roster/cap purge with an eye on the future. Kind of like... you know, the good teams tend to do. I don't have a problem with that. I mean, I do, because it means not a lot of wins and fun games this year, but if it gets things reset and done the right way, that's ok. Just curious though if we have the right guys leading the plan, that's what matters most.
     
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  11. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Active Member

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    Oh I hadn't meant picking them at 13. I had meant in a trade down scenario, but if there's nobody worth a first round grade then it renders my point moot anyway.
     
  12. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    They are tearing the team down in order to rebuild it better, hopefully into a championship caliber team. It's a rebuild plain and simple. If they get into a position to grab a great qb prospect along the way, perfect. I will go on record right now that I'm not sold on Tua as others are, but if thats the guy they want so be it.
     
  13. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tua's last game really concerned me.
     
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  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    goodness...how many times does this have to be explained before adults realize how this works.
     
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  15. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    That's the advantage of having more one year to evaluate him. See how this year goes, with Tua, and all the others.
     
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  16. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Member

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    I can't believe that people really think that a professional sports outfit would intentionally go out to tank. Strip away the expensive parts that are not worth the overpriced contracts, evaluate the young players to find out what they can offer and build a roster by careful spending & considered scouting - how can that be a bad thing instead of buying expensive trinkets & padding the squad out with low level replacements?
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    can we sticky this with the headline.

    ''fans having problems understanding what were doing.''....click here.
     
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  18. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Rosen

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    I like and agree with the concept. Now, I just hope we are capable of doing it. Our track record, including Grier, hasn't been exactly stellar. I can only hope he is part of the solution and was not part of the problem.
     
  19. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    That's going to be a pass from me dawg.
     
  20. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    cut ryan tannehill, sign curtis painter, everyone can try as hard as they like, we'd get 1-2 wins.
     
  21. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Member

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    That is probably the one caveat 99, do we have that in the building. I am hopeful that Grier is the person that has been involved over the last few drafts, where we have picked up some young talent. In terms of coaching, we will likely find out soon - if we look terrible by mid-season & the youngsters have been yanked for overpriced veterans, we know that the coaching is not good
     
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  22. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    I agree. Did not look like a guy I want to "tank" a season for. Was clearly outplayed by a true freshman on the other side of the field.

    And it was not close.
     
  23. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    It's a good thing too. If that was all we had to go, on I'd pass.
     

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