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I REALLY hate this draft!!!

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by FinNasty, Apr 25, 2011.

  1. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    Sorry... just starting to really look into the draft. Was looking at Kiper's Big Board of his top 25:

    Patrick Peterson - CB
    Von Miller - OLB
    A.J. Green - WR
    Nick Fairley - DT
    Marcell Dareus - DT/DE
    DaQuan Bowers - DE
    Robert Quinn - DE
    Julio Jones - WR
    Prince Amukamara - CB
    Muhammad Wilkerson - DT
    Corey Liuget - DT
    Aldon Smith - OLB
    Cameron Jordan - DE
    Blaine Gabbert - QB
    Cam Newton - QB
    Jimmy Smith - CB
    Tyron Smith - OT
    JJ Watt - DE
    Anthony Castonzo - OT
    Adrian Clayborn - DE
    Mark Ingram - RB
    Nate Solder - OT
    Gabe Carimi - OT
    Ryan Kerrigan - OLB
    Jake Locker - QB

    12 of the to 25 are DEs, DTs, or OLBs... none of which we need.
    3 are CBs... none of which we need
    4 are OTs... none of which we need

    Thats 19 of the top 25 that are players we dont need.

    Remaining positions in the top 25 we do need:
    QB - Gabbert and Newton will not be available

    Now were at 21 of the top 25.

    WR - Both Jones and Green will not be available

    Thats 23 of the 25.

    The only 2 left? Ingram (a RB w/ limited physical upside, when RBs are available in the later rounds) and Locker (a QB with a lot of questions).


    UGH!!!!! Anyone else frustrated when looking at the board this year?
     
  2. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    We could use OLB, and we could use OT (whether by virtue of making them G's or moving Carey there). Heck, you could even make the argument that we could use CB.

    I'm not frustrated with the talent in the top 25, I'm just frustrated that I have no clue what direction we might go.
     
  3. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    12 of the to 25 are DEs, DTs, or OLBs... none of which we need.
    3 are CBs... none of which we need
    4 are OTs... none of which we need


    I get your level of frustration with the unproven talent that fills those roles, but we do need talent in those areas. If this is how our FO thinks, its clear 2011 draft will be added to history of why our Franchise has taken significant steps backwards from once being the cream of the crop!

    If your intent is to say, no offensive PLAYMAKERS and GAMECHANGERS then yes, I concur the first round is lacking, but we have methods at our disposal to solve that by trading down or out of first round and stock piling picks for later, or future drafts.

    I have my fingers crossed FinNasty that things will work out....come Thur we will get a clear indication. But its bleak from the O side this year in the early rounds.
     
  4. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I share your frustration about most of it, although you can't have enough talent at CB, especially with injuries, Brady, all the sub packages that we need them for, special teams, and considering it's a passing league.
     
  5. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    We could use an OLB with Wake and Misi? We just drafted Misi in the 2nd round last year and he played pretty well. Would there be an OLB prospect that would be available at 15 that would make us want to bail on Misi already? And who?

    Which Tackles would be great Guards on the next level? (not a fan of moving Carey to Guard)

    And I dont see ANY need for a CB. We are plenty deep and have a lot of young talent there.
     
  6. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    Not only "offensive playmakers and game changers"... but really anything that jumps out at me as a stud at a strong position of need. There is no badass MLB that is going to be there, or a badass Safety (either free or strong)... both positions we could use on defense. On offense, there are no badass WRs that will be available, and theres no badass TE in the draft worth a mid-first. And for QBs, the ones that will be available all seem to be reaches at 15.

    I would LOVE to trade down. In fact, looking at the big board makes me think that if we cant... we are in a lot of trouble. If we cant, we are either going to have to reach, or take a player at a position that isnt really a need... which is not really going to make a big improvement to our team with our draft.
     
  7. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I think Carimi could do very well at G.

    Why would drafting an OLB make us bail on Misi? You would draft another LB to supplement Misi and Wake. They don't play every down, and we can always use more pass rushers. Or you could potentially get someone like Ayers and maybe play him inside.

    Sean Smith, despite closing the season strong (and despite showing stone hands) was benched to start the year. Aside from him and Davis we have Benny Sapp (not great), Will Allen (played 6 games in the past 2 years), Nate Ness (unproven UDFA) and Carroll (who showed promise, but is still a 5th round 2nd yr guy). If you don't see where we could use another CB, even if it isn't a NEED, then I don't know what else I can tell you.
     
  8. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I also don't see how Ingram isn't a playmaker, and how his "limited physical upside" is such a damning thing. How many backs come into the NFL with "significant physical upside" and amount to anything? I mean if you have a lot of physical upside, that'd mean you were under-developed. Unless you're trying to say he doesn't have a fast 40 time, so he's going to suck.
     
  9. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    In the case of the bolded though... now you are drafting a player in the mid-first that you have no intention of making an every down player. I have an issue with that. I dont think the 1st round is where you draft for depth. If you have an aging player at a position, you can draft for depth with the plan of him taking over once that older player is gone... but again, your drafting that player with the intention of him becoming an every down player.


    As far a CB, I am clearly much higher on Smith than you are. I think hes going to be a great starter in this league, and the dropped INTs dont bother me, b/c he was putting himself in position to make plays. The INTs will come IMO. As far as Sapp, Carrol, and WAllen... again we are talking about the nickle, dime, and quarter CBs... not every down players. How much impact is a rookie CB going to make on our team this year?

    I'm in favor of drafting for the future... and not just focusing on the immediate returns of next season. But I really want to draft a player for the NOW and for the FUTURE... and I'm just not seeing it.
     
  10. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    Oh, I cant stand the thought of spending a 1st round pick on an RB... period. But IF you're going to go RB... I think that player has to be a once in generation type of player, with extremely rare ability and talent. Chris Johnson type speed, or Peterson's blend of speed and power. A grinder type back can be found later in the draft, and taking one high is a massive waste of valuable resources IMO. Our offense needs speed. Ingram doesnt provide that. It would be like drafting another possession WR IMO. I'm not saying that Ingram wont be a great player... but hes not a fit for what our team needs to improve.
     
  11. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Just because they aren't an every down player as a rookie, doesn't make the selection any less worthwhile. You're not drafting just for depth, you're drafting for impact.

    Maybe you are higher on Smith than me, but just because I don't think we should just assume him and Vontae will be 10 yr starters doesn't mean I'm down on him. A nickel CB plays like 60%+ of your defensive snaps, it's not like he's riding the pine except for 3rd and long situations. You know who the Jets drafted in the 1st round last year despite having Cromartie and Revis? Kyle Wilson. Cromartie and Wilson were sure as hell a lot more entrenched and proven at their positon than Davis and Smith are right now. Just because it's not a need doesn't mean adding to the position can't make a significant impact.


    Then you're being just a little too shortsighted IMO.
     
  12. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    But that's not what you said before. You characterized his "lack of physical upside" as some major indictment, which is silly IMO. Not wanting to take a RB in rd 1 is a far more understandable position.
     
  13. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    Well, what I meat by limited physical upside was not having rare ability that would make a RB worth a 1st round pick. Sorry if I my position was a little hard to understand in my first post. I do feel that is a major indictment for a RB taken in round 1.
     
  14. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    But when I think impact... I think of an every down player. A player that is knowingly going to be a rotational player for the considerable future would limit said player's ability to make an impact just due to the limited number of snaps.


    Well, I think they took Wilson b/c they had no real intention of locking up Cromartie long term unless he just exploded. And even then, how much impact did Wilson really make for the Jets this year.



    . I don't see how wanting a player that is going to come in and make an impact from day 1 and continue to do so for the next 10 years is short sided?
     
  15. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Not seeing a handful of players among those listed that could come in and make an impact from day one and be a 10 yr player is what is short sighted, not your wants. Yes, they might not all be "starters" on day 1 but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be worthwhile picks.
     
  16. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    I'm not proposing just to pass on selecting a player all together Stitches, lol. I'm just talking about disappointment and frustration... b/c that player isnt there for us. Not even one player we can realistically hope will be there. That there isnt a stud ready for immediate impact at a position of need. The strengths of this first round, other than QB, seem to be ones that we have no need in. And the QB's that will be available would be reaches where we are currently slotted.

    Of course you take the player that will be the best long term for your franchise, even if he isnt necessarily at a position of need or wont make much of an impact year 1. But that doesnt make it less disappointing that this draft, and our draft slot, suit us terribly this year.


    The other motivation for me being disappointed that the impact player isnt there, is b/c this organization needs a player that can help put W's in the win column this coming season. If not, we are possibly looking at yet another regime change... which is just going to set us back all over again once again. I'd like to avoid that at all costs, and landing a rookie impact player can really help that.


    Obviously, that isnt out of the question b/c who knows how the draft is going to turn out or how these kids will develop. Hell, we could end up drafting HoFers rounds 1-7 this year. But, as of today going into this draft, its disappointing that there dont seem to be any of those players there for us in the 1st.
     

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