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Im sorry tannehill forgive me

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Kud_II, Nov 2, 2014.

  1. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    When your QB get knocked around, sacked, pressured all day and still puts the team on his back to win the game, you have the one. We get to watch how he grades out the next two weeks. Our O-line can't stop everyone. There are some good Ds out there.
     
  2. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    Wasn't saying you were. Some don't look at it that way though.
    I think that there are QBs in the league that have a better pocket presence under fire. I certainly think that there are other QBs that handle pressure better. All QBs get pressures and sacks.
     
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  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Fair enough, my bad.
     
  4. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I wouldn't say so. The line gave him the chance to do what he can do against SD...plain and simple. The trenches matter more than any individual. I'd say RT has all the tools and abilities needed to take this team all the way, but he still needs a "GOOD TEAM" around him to get it done...as with ANY other QB in the league. Russell Wilson may be the exception, may not be, time will tell, but we've all seen how fast Brady, Manning, Rivers, others fold when they're under constant pressure...our own team does it to many.

    My argument for RT has always been that he's not a detriment to the team given equal play by the WHOLE team. Look at what Colledge's migraine did to the "TEAM" last week...trenches.
     
  5. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Okay, and in the 5 games before that, he had a 62.32 overall rating. So thanks for ignoring those five game.
     
  6. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Its not all just on the QB though Huck...Lazor has to call plays that can assist in mitigating the line also, if they're getting rocked.

    That said, I expect more "create" and "win" plays from RT going forward the more comfortable he gets in this offense...the more he sees the plays under fire, naturally he'll improve in being able to improvise around various situations. He was great against the blitz this last week, maybe the best he's ever been at it, which is the main thing that has me optimistic about him improving at mitigating pressure.
     
  7. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know but Brady is a pretty good QB... not against Miami nor KC did he played well... maybe because he was on his back or hurried to throw... Ohh and they lost both games too... only scoring an average of 17 ppg... not Brady like, but he is great... no sarcasm...

    Against Miami he was sacked a few times and hurried a lot, which gave him 32 QBR (fact)... and against KC a few sacks and hurries also... Brady had his lowest QBR of the season... an 11.6... (fact)

    So in answering your question... any great QB that gets pressured, hit and sack can and will have a bad game, no matter how great/good they are...

    any coincidence that both losses to the Pats this year was helped in fact that Brady had bad games against good defenses???

    and yes stats can be used and miss-used, but facts are facts...
     
  8. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's not necessarily true. Pressure is pressure. If a QB is under it all day, there's a fair chance he could be in for a long game, let alone if that pressure is from just 4. If Miami's offensive line can do a decent job against Detroit's front, Tannehill does have the capability to throw against 7 in coverage. If our O-line can't stop Detroit's front 4, it will probably be as problematic for Tannehill as it was for Aaron Rodgers who mustered up just 1 scoring drive against Detroit, as it was for Brady twice against the Giants' front 4, and as it was for Peyton Manning against Seattle's nascar package in the Super Bowl.
     
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  9. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    I agree. I hope he continues to improve. San Diego's D isn't very good at getting after to QB though. Not sure that is a fair measuring stick.
     
  10. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    I see your point but lets not just pull facts to support one side. I'm not asking for a miracle. I'm not asking for 100 QBR against a top 5 D. I'm looking for the guy that is gritty and finds a way to get it done. You are discussing elite QBs that have struggled. They have also pulled out quite a few. I am trying to make the point that I have not seen that yet in our youngster. Remember that feeling you had when we were down 14 coming out of the locker room and you still thought we would pull it off? That was the last time we had a great QB. I'm not expecting Marino, but I need to see him pull a couple out against a team with a strong front 4. Just a few years ago we were good at knocking the hell out of the QB and time of possession. We lost several of those games. We got beat by the QB.
     
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  11. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    I agree. I should have been more specific. When teams do not need to blitz and can get pressure with 4, Tannehill has really struggled. I could see that being the game plan for the next 2 weeks.
    While a lot of that is on the coaches and RB, TE, Line, I need to see him pull one out. A lot of people keep saying his last 5 games his QBR is over 100. If you look at it game per game, it looks like a roller coaster. I thought he was sensational Sunday. Just need a bit more.
     
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  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Most quarterbacks do.

    That is pretty much the template to beat 90% of NFL quarterbacks.
     
  13. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Damn that Dan Marino!! I knew he would get in the way, give Tanne useless information, undermine the coaching staff, make things worse and just royally f--k things up.

    Kidding aside, one of Tanne's best games of his NFL career so far. He was accurate, had touch, had patience, made plays and had a lot of swagger. Good to see. He had some freakin' mojo. He had a bit that Marinoesque confidence. :lol:
     
  14. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    I agree. Its those teams that go to the playoffs constantly find a way to get it done. The TEAM gets it done, but the QB is the queen of the chess set. A lot is on his plate. Our losses against teams with a good front four are double digit losses. I want to go to the playoffs.
     
  15. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Those rankings are from a site that only shows the top 30 qbs. There were more than 30 teams, let alone 30 qbs that played those seasons. So, saying he was a bottom 5 QB based on his ESPN stat isn't correct. Even if you want to claim he was bottom 5 of the top 30, that'd only be true for his rookie season, and so what? He was still the best option that Miami had, and showed clear progress. Do you deny that Ryan has clearly improved, and hasn't shown signs of that improvement faltering? If anything it's sped up. Which is the point.
     
  16. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    YES! he did! Really was outstanding. The next two games worry me though.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Simple fact of the matter, is that people are questioning Tannehill not based on his actual play and the play of his teammates, but based on the fact its hard to believe after all this time, we have an actual QB.
     
  18. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    50% of the time.
     
  19. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    All this passer rating drivel is killing me...QBR even worse.

    TEAM game guys...don't let that little inconvenient fact get by you.

    If the TEAM can't handle Detroit's D line, the team will suffer...tons of elite, HoF QBs in the world who looked merely mortal (or worse) under heavy pressure...it's not an indictment on the QB alone.
     
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  20. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nope huck just stating that same fact in my post... stats can be used for many points... I agree... and how about the NE game this year??? DOWN by 17 and came up to help the team put 30 points against them... I know they were not that many but his abilities are starting to show....

    I am a huge fan of "Dan the man," but many do not still realize that Thill did not start more than 16 games in his college career... that has a lot to do with his maturation process (I believe and no expert)... Guys like Dan, Peyton, Brady and Luck had around 40+ games in college then jumped into the NFL... Currently Thill has started 56 games as QB (including College games)... that almost as many games as a 4 year starter in College and his Rookie NFL year...

    So it is easy to think that Thill is now starting his second year of NFL action (a 2nd year NFL QB)... and will see what happens the rest of the year hoping he makes us believers...
     
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  21. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    I don't expect them to handle it real well against Detroit of Buffalo. It is a team game. Miller is hurt. Simms who is our best blocker is hurt. Never wanted to put it on the QB alone. If he can get it done in a tough gritty game, I will have much, much respect. We need to see that to get to the playoffs.
     
  22. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    He has 40 games as a starting NFL QB. That argument is really not valid. He is progressing. Need to see that last step. The one where he can will a win like the good ones. 40 starts. He either has it or not. He certainly has played well every other week. On average, he is like the second or third best rated QB in the last few weeks. Impressive. Just need to see a good effort from him against the next 2 teams.

    I can't take away anything from him regarding the opener. I'm not trying to take away anything from him period.
     
  23. Kud_II

    Kud_II Surrounded by Ahos.

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    TANNEHILL I promise to believe in you the rest of the season through good and bad times. Even if you choke the season I'm with you cause you're all we got next year LOL.

    But seriously. Lead us to the playoffs.
     
  24. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That ESPN QBR stat is a team stat that people keep using as if it were an individual stat. I've been complaining about it since it was introduced. Literally, if a QB makes the play to put their team up with a minute to play but then his D blows it his score goes down even if he never gets back on the field. It is simply not an individual stat and complete ignorance to use it as one.
     
  25. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    I think Philbin almost benching him a few weeks ago and the increased exposure to Marino are really starting to benefit RT17. They got his attention in a big way. I have always said we won't know what we have with RT until we have an O-Line that keeps him clean. They did that Sunday, and he shredded the Chargers. Also doesn't hurt that our OC is finally having the former college WR, do what he does best and use his feet.

    A complex successful defense and an opportunistic offense are a winning combination. Hope they come rolling into Denver on a 5 game win streak. Can't wait to see them live.
     
  26. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't agree that Philbin's admitted screw-up had the effect people are giving it. IMO the far bigger factor is that we had a QB learning a new system for the first time since HS.
     
  27. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    I would bet that it was not the screw up that Philbin told the media it was. He needed to get the attention of his QB, and he did. The improvement and comfort with the offense is also a factor though.
     
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  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Really? You think Tannehill wasn't putting pressure on himself to perform before Philbin went all wishy-washy with his stupid answer?
     
  29. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I just don't believe that RT was sitting around not focusing until Philbin implied he lacked faith in his QB. By all accounts, RT is a very hard worker. I don't believe that he suddenly worked harder. I think the work he'd already put in started paying off and that his comfort level was rising within a new system. I believe that if Philbin had not said a word that we'd be seeing the exact same performance from RT.
     
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  30. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference between pressuring yourself and feeling the pressure from the person in charge. There just is.
     
  31. ElNino

    ElNino Well-Known Member

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    Yup agreed. I'm sure Tannehill puts pressure on himself just as rafael said, but if my boss stops by and tells me my job is in jeopardy, you can bet you won't see me on www.ThePhins.com for a few weeks. I do a good a job anyway, but it would make a difference.
     
  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    yes there is a difference, however I don't think in this instance it made a difference at all.

    Tannehill looked like a young quarterback in a new offense. His improvement has looked pretty consistent with passed performances while he got more adjusted to the offense.

    The last thing he needed was a vote of no confidence for his wishy washy coach.
     
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    where are the reports that he worked harder after the incident? All I have read about him is the fact that he has worked his butt off during the offseason and season. He wasn't partying or falling asleep in meetings or late to meetings. There was not one report that even corresponded to a change in behavior.

    Even the report in the locker room was more confusion than anything. No one believed that Tannehill was going to get benched.
     
  34. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    If, like I think, Philbin did it on purpose, then it was definitely a calculated risk. It would mean he had faith in the maturity of his QB to handle higher expectations/higher pressure. Regardless of the reasoning, the fact remains that RT has improved since that week. Intentional or not, that situation sparked a surging offense and QB play we haven't had in the orange and aqua in a long time.
     
  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Do you really believe that as a professional athlete, playing a position with the highest scrutiny, that Tannehill wasn't out there giving 110% every game? I mean, you can't really compare your job to a job where the guy is on national television playing every week, and feeling the pressure and the expectations with every sack/interception/loss. I find it hard to believe that Philbin saying what he said was the extra motivation Tannehill needed to play better. Perhaps, though, Philbin saying what he said was more a motivator for the TEAM. The TEAM knew that Tannehill was playing pretty well, but they were all letting him down. Perhaps the TEAM came together around Tannehill, and increased their performance, resulting in an overall better performance by the TEAM ever since Philbin pulled that stunt.
     
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  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I don't know if he did it on purpose or if he was just being off the cuff.

    He didn't do it in the locker room where it belonged. He said one thing to the media, and one thing to the locker room. I am never for that when it comes to calling out a player.

    Philbin even apologized and regretted his decision.

    I also don't agree that the situation sparked the offense at all. Spark came as a combination of familiarity with offense, rest of offense playing better (especially the wide receivers) and playing the Raiders.
     
  37. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's a generalization, and it needs to be prefaced with "sometimes", as in- "sometimes there's a difference". There are some people who put as much or more pressure on themselves than any external force can apply. If these people are already exerting maximum effort and focus on their task at hand, then they're already maxed out. Ryan Tannehill was not a Demarcus Russell or a Blaine Gabbert who didn't work hard and needed a fire lit under his ***. Tannehill busted his butt all offseason on correcting his mechanics, making them more consistent, and learning the new offense.

    It's pretty silly to think the light came on instantaneously due to Philbin pressure. You know how I know it's silly? -because it assumes Tannehill not only didn't put in the work this offseason and in practice, but that he also suddenly put it all together in less than 1 week's span as if he just crammed for the bar exam and aced it. That's just absurd. Raf told you exactly what it is, just as it's been the case time and time again in the NFL with QBs entering new systems and with young QBs who hit that point where the game slows down. Eli Manning is a 10 year veteran with 2 Super Bowl rings, but that still didn't deter Jon Gruden from pointing out last night how his game is being affected by playing in a new system that he and the offense are still acclimating to, and this was NINE GAMES into the season. Yet you think all it took for Tannehill's play to come together after 3 games in a new system was a comment from Philbin? Gimme a break.
     
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  38. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    I think it's become patently obvious to people on both sides of the debate at this point:

    Ryan Tannehill will 9 times out of 10 not make the ridiculous throws to beat your elite defense by himself, BUT if you give him a clean pocket along with a few designed rollouts to keep the opposing pass rushers honest? He can eat you alive.
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    i don't think the check was about work ethic, i think it was to make him compete with more sense of urgency, and to lead better.

    who knows, I thought and stated he needed to get checked before the raider game, then philbin did it, and he's played better, so, your not gonna convince me of something else..

    what the big deal, he's not off limits to get checked by his coach..
     
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  40. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Yes, Philbin did it on purpose, but not because he wanted to light a fire under Tannehill's ***. We were just 3 damn games into a new system and Philbin, by all reports, wanted to turn to Moore, but the Dolphins organization was against Joe having the authority to bench their high 1st round QB who was being groomed as the face of the franchise, so stop trying to give him kudos for some sort of successful psychological tactic. Had Joe benched Tannehill like he wanted, we might've never gotten the chance to see our QB of the future emerge. Maybe Matt Moore plays just well enough for Philbin to continue starting him the rest of the year, Miami finishes with another 8-8 or 7-9 record because of it, Philbin gets fired, and a new coach demands a new QB.
     

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