Im sorry tannehill forgive me

I must admit that I was having some doubts earlier this year, probably enhanced by what I read on here. I am happy to see him playing well and to see us being competitive. Off the field Tanny is great, far better maturity than most I believe. It's great to see him running, but that boy had better get his but down when there are tacklers coming. I don't want to see him get some meaningless 1st down if he takes a big hit.

"vt_dolfan wrote:

LOL.. I love reading this. Do you realize every quarterback lauds down with a great front four?

That is not even close to true. He is going to face a good front 4 the next two games. Teams that can pressure with 4 and drop everyone else back. He has been good every other week for 5 weeks. He has not played a game well against a team that can get pressure with 4. Good QBs do. Facts are facts. I also think your sarcasm is lame and your replies lack any insight.

It is amazing the amount of hate here when someone points out that our boy is good every other game and some consistent play against all types of defenses would certainly make a believer out of a lot of us. Why do we always struggle with Buffalo? Why did we have such a hard time at Jacksonville? Those things are common with Detroit. We all want him to be good. He is good....every other week. The attacking posts isn't really necessary. If you do not agree, then fine. It is a free country. What is this place, Finheaven?

"huck1974 wrote:

It is amazing the amount of hate here when someone points out that our boy is good every other game and some consistent play against all types of defenses would certainly make a believer out of a lot of us. Why do we always struggle with Buffalo? Why did we have such a hard time at Jacksonville? Those things are common with Detroit. We all want him to be good. He is good....every other week. The attacking posts isn't really necessary. If you do not agree, then fine. It is a free country. What is this place, Finheaven?

Buffalo -- division game, they seem to have had our number the last few times, they're not a 'garbage' team by any stretch, their D line is top notch. Winning the trenches can NOT be overstated.

Jax -- Thanks Colledge...thanks. We had a horrendous first half of offense, and you need to look no further than the offensive line (and Hartline) to see why. Not to mention, we gave up very long, time consuming drives.

For one, RT is getting very comfortable with operating this offense. The receivers are getting more automatic in their route-running. The line is gelling with Pouncey getting more solid at guard. Double-team-Suh MUST be the order of the day, and rollouts/bootlegs to mix up the line.

I also think Lazor has an opportunity here to show he can game-plan a fast start against a GREAT defense. He's missed a few opportunities of this type this year, but I think he's learning quite a bit (and quickly) on the fly just like several of the players. This game, to me, is a HUGE measuring stick. If we look like we did against KC/Buffalo, we're in trouble for 2014. Closer to how we looked against Chicago and SD, and we're in business!

"huck1974 wrote:

It is amazing the amount of hate here when someone points out that our boy is good every other game and some consistent play against all types of defenses would certainly make a believer out of a lot of us. Why do we always struggle with Buffalo? Why did we have such a hard time at Jacksonville? Those things are common with Detroit. We all want him to be good. He is good....every other week. The attacking posts isn't really necessary. If you do not agree, then fine. It is a free country. What is this place, Finheaven?

Those things have been answered over and over. That's why its annoying. No matter how many times people explain the actual problems and back them up with tape and stats, there are still people that just blame it all on Tannehill.

"PhinFan1968 wrote:

Buffalo -- division game, they seem to have had our number the last few times, they're not a 'garbage' team by any stretch, their D line is top notch. Winning the trenches can NOT be overstated.

Jax -- Thanks Colledge...thanks. We had a horrendous first half of offense, and you need to look no further than the offensive line (and Hartline) to see why. Not to mention, we gave up very long, time consuming drives.

For one, RT is getting very comfortable with operating this offense. The receivers are getting more automatic in their route-running. The line is gelling with Pouncey getting more solid at guard. Double-team-Suh MUST be the order of the day, and rollouts/bootlegs to mix up the line.

I also think Lazor has an opportunity here to show he can game-plan a fast start against a GREAT defense. He's missed a few opportunities of this type this year, but I think he's learning quite a bit (and quickly) on the fly just like several of the players. This game, to me, is a HUGE measuring stick. If we look like we did against KC/Buffalo, we're in trouble for 2014. Closer to how we looked against Chicago and SD, and we're in business!

Agree 100%. I'm optimistic. I hope Ryan can prove it. There are 46 players that dress on Sunday. It is certainly not all on him. Manning is one of the best ever and got beat yesterday. I'm not asking for a miracle. I just want to see him pull through under pressure,...face adversity and succeed. The next two games are a huge challenge. I need to see him will a team to victory in a dirty trench play game. I'll jump on the wagon and buy the jersey and all. The next two teams are the type of teams that give him trouble.

"vt_dolfan wrote:

Key.. I literally have no idea what it is you just said.he has a 100 plus rating now for last 5 games.. But hey.. Thanks for giving him props on this ONE

Except for the Jacksonville game..however, I think you meant to say that he has a 100 plus average rating in last 5 games which he has and he is now playing lights out football and I am proud of his play now as well as him reaching out to Marino for help which is now paying huge dividends :)

"Fin D wrote:

Those things have been answered over and over. That's why its annoying. No matter how many times people explain the actual problems and back them up with tape and stats, there are still people that just blame it all on Tannehill.

I don't think it is fair to blame it all on the QB. I think it is fair to say that the QBs in the league that can be the difference in those situations are the really good ones.

"adamprez2003 wrote:

anyone that blamed tannehill after watching our offensive line get thrown around like rag dolls against the bills and chiefs this year shouldnt be commenting on qb play whatsoever. they clearly dont understand the game

Okay, so we say Tannehill is awesome if he has a good game, but if he does bad then it's the line's fault. In other words, you could care less what actually happens on the field because your mind is already made. Great logic there.

"huck1974 wrote:

I don't think it is fair to blame it all on the QB. I think it is fair to say that the QBs in the league that can be the difference in those situations are the really good ones.

"I'm not saying its all the QB's fault, but if he were better like some other QBs that wouldn't have happened." <--------That's what you basically just said.

"KeyFin wrote:

Okay, so we say Tannehill is awesome if he has a good game, but if he does bad then it's the line's fault. In other words, you could care less what actually happens on the field because your mind is already made. Great logic there.

When your QB get knocked around, sacked, pressured all day and still puts the team on his back to win the game, you have the one. We get to watch how he grades out the next two weeks. Our O-line can't stop everyone. There are some good Ds out there.

"Fin D wrote:

lol. I'm not sure on what planet that is not blaming it all on the QB.

"I'm not saying its all the QB's fault, but if he were better like some other QBs that wouldn't have happened." <--------That's what you basically just said.

Wasn't saying you were. Some don't look at it that way though.
I think that there are QBs in the league that have a better pocket presence under fire. I certainly think that there are other QBs that handle pressure better. All QBs get pressures and sacks.

"huck1974 wrote:

Wasn't saying you were. Some don't look at it that way though.

Fair enough, my bad.

"KeyFin wrote:

Okay, so we say Tannehill is awesome if he has a good game, but if he does bad then it's the line's fault. In other words, you could care less what actually happens on the field because your mind is already made. Great logic there.

I wouldn't say so. The line gave him the chance to do what he can do against SD...plain and simple. The trenches matter more than any individual. I'd say RT has all the tools and abilities needed to take this team all the way, but he still needs a "GOOD TEAM" around him to get it done...as with ANY other QB in the league. Russell Wilson may be the exception, may not be, time will tell, but we've all seen how fast Brady, Manning, Rivers, others fold when they're under constant pressure...our own team does it to many.

My argument for RT has always been that he's not a detriment to the team given equal play by the WHOLE team. Look at what Colledge's migraine did to the "TEAM" last week...trenches.

"vt_dolfan wrote:

Key..

I literally have no idea what it is you just said.

he has a 100 plus rating now for last 5 games.. But hey.. Thanks for giving him props on this ONE

Okay, and in the 5 games before that, he had a 62.32 overall rating. So thanks for ignoring those five game.

"huck1974 wrote:

When your QB get knocked around, sacked, pressured all day and still puts the team on his back to win the game, you have the one. We get to watch how he grades out the next two weeks. Our O-line can't stop everyone. There are some good Ds out there.

Its not all just on the QB though Huck...Lazor has to call plays that can assist in mitigating the line also, if they're getting rocked.

That said, I expect more "create" and "win" plays from RT going forward the more comfortable he gets in this offense...the more he sees the plays under fire, naturally he'll improve in being able to improvise around various situations. He was great against the blitz this last week, maybe the best he's ever been at it, which is the main thing that has me optimistic about him improving at mitigating pressure.

"huck1974 wrote:

That is not even close to true. He is going to face a good front 4 the next two games. Teams that can pressure with 4 and drop everyone else back. He has been good every other week for 5 weeks. He has not played a game well against a team that can get pressure with 4. Good QBs do. Facts are facts. I also think your sarcasm is lame and your replies lack any insight.

I don't know but Brady is a pretty good QB... not against Miami nor KC did he played well... maybe because he was on his back or hurried to throw... Ohh and they lost both games too... only scoring an average of 17 ppg... not Brady like, but he is great... no sarcasm...

Against Miami he was sacked a few times and hurried a lot, which gave him 32 QBR (fact)... and against KC a few sacks and hurries also... Brady had his lowest QBR of the season... an 11.6... (fact)

So in answering your question... any great QB that gets pressured, hit and sack can and will have a bad game, no matter how great/good they are...

any coincidence that both losses to the Pats this year was helped in fact that Brady had bad games against good defenses???

and yes stats can be used and miss-used, but facts are facts...

"huck1974 wrote:

That is not even close to true. He is going to face a good front 4 the next two games. Teams that can pressure with 4 and drop everyone else back. He has been good every other week for 5 weeks. He has not played a game well against a team that can get pressure with 4. Good QBs do. Facts are facts. I also think your sarcasm is lame and your replies lack any insight.

That's not necessarily true. Pressure is pressure. If a QB is under it all day, there's a fair chance he could be in for a long game, let alone if that pressure is from just 4. If Miami's offensive line can do a decent job against Detroit's front, Tannehill does have the capability to throw against 7 in coverage. If our O-line can't stop Detroit's front 4, it will probably be as problematic for Tannehill as it was for Aaron Rodgers who mustered up just 1 scoring drive against Detroit, as it was for Brady twice against the Giants' front 4, and as it was for Peyton Manning against Seattle's nascar package in the Super Bowl.

"PhinFan1968 wrote:

Its not all just on the QB though Huck...Lazor has to call plays that can assist in mitigating the line also, if they're getting rocked.

That said, I expect more "create" and "win" plays from RT going forward the more comfortable he gets in this offense...the more he sees the plays under fire, naturally he'll improve in being able to improvise around various situations. He was great against the blitz this last week, maybe the best he's ever been at it, which is the main thing that has me optimistic about him improving at mitigating pressure.

I agree. I hope he continues to improve. San Diego's D isn't very good at getting after to QB though. Not sure that is a fair measuring stick.

"Disnardo wrote:

I don't know but Brady is a pretty good QB... not against Miami nor KC did he played well... maybe because he was on his back or hurried to throw... Ohh and they lost both games too... only scoring an average of 17 ppg... not Brady like, but he is great... no sarcasm...

Against Miami he was sacked a few times and hurried a lot, which gave him 32 QBR (fact)... and against KC a few sacks and hurries also... Brady had his lowest QBR of the season... an 11.6... (fact)

So in answering your question... any great QB that gets pressured, hit and sack can and will have a bad game, no matter how great/good they are...

any coincidence that both losses to the Pats this year was helped in fact that Brady had bad games against good defenses???

and yes stats can be used and miss-used, but facts are facts...

I see your point but lets not just pull facts to support one side. I'm not asking for a miracle. I'm not asking for 100 QBR against a top 5 D. I'm looking for the guy that is gritty and finds a way to get it done. You are discussing elite QBs that have struggled. They have also pulled out quite a few. I am trying to make the point that I have not seen that yet in our youngster. Remember that feeling you had when we were down 14 coming out of the locker room and you still thought we would pull it off? That was the last time we had a great QB. I'm not expecting Marino, but I need to see him pull a couple out against a team with a strong front 4. Just a few years ago we were good at knocking the hell out of the QB and time of possession. We lost several of those games. We got beat by the QB.

"ToddPhin wrote:

That's not necessarily true. Pressure is pressure. If a QB is under it all day, there's a fair chance he could be in for a long game, let alone if that pressure is from just 4. If Miami's offensive line can do a decent job against Detroit's front, Tannehill does have the capability to throw against 7 in coverage. If our O-line can't stop Detroit's front 4, it will probably be as problematic for Tannehill as it was for Aaron Rodgers who mustered up just 1 scoring drive against Detroit, as it was for Brady twice against the Giants' front 4, and as it was for Peyton Manning against Seattle's nascar package in the Super Bowl.

I agree. I should have been more specific. When teams do not need to blitz and can get pressure with 4, Tannehill has really struggled. I could see that being the game plan for the next 2 weeks.
While a lot of that is on the coaches and RB, TE, Line, I need to see him pull one out. A lot of people keep saying his last 5 games his QBR is over 100. If you look at it game per game, it looks like a roller coaster. I thought he was sensational Sunday. Just need a bit more.

"huck1974 wrote:

I agree. I should have been more specific. When teams do not need to blitz and can get pressure with 4, Tannehill has really struggled. I could see that being the game plan for the next 2 weeks.
While a lot of that is on the coaches and RB, TE, Line, I need to see him pull one out. A lot of people keep saying his last 5 games his QBR is over 100. If you look at it game per game, it looks like a roller coaster. I thought he was sensational Sunday. Just need a bit more.

Most quarterbacks do.

That is pretty much the template to beat 90% of NFL quarterbacks.

Damn that Dan Marino!! I knew he would get in the way, give Tanne useless information, undermine the coaching staff, make things worse and just royally f--k things up.

Kidding aside, one of Tanne's best games of his NFL career so far. He was accurate, had touch, had patience, made plays and had a lot of swagger. Good to see. He had some freakin' mojo. He had a bit that Marinoesque confidence. :lol:

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

Most quarterbacks do.

That is pretty much the template to beat 90% of NFL quarterbacks.

I agree. Its those teams that go to the playoffs constantly find a way to get it done. The TEAM gets it done, but the QB is the queen of the chess set. A lot is on his plate. Our losses against teams with a good front four are double digit losses. I want to go to the playoffs.

"KeyFin wrote:

He was 27th (bottom 5), 24th (bottom 9) and 17th this season by ESPN's passer rating. Considering that we were a pass first offense for his first two seasons, that's the stat that ultimately counts. He's a little better in total QBR (still 17th this season) but still, you're not talking about a guy setting the league on fire by any means.

Since we've had this conversation for three years now though and he's looked like a solid quarterback for half of this season, it's no wonder why the pessimists are tired of this constant fight. Because no matter how you spin it, he's choked down the stretch every season so far and proven nothing. So while the pessimists here are trying to give you the benefit of the doubt after a great week, it just doesn't equal the 3 years of dominance that you're trying to spin. It's ridiculous.

Those rankings are from a site that only shows the top 30 qbs. There were more than 30 teams, let alone 30 qbs that played those seasons. So, saying he was a bottom 5 QB based on his ESPN stat isn't correct. Even if you want to claim he was bottom 5 of the top 30, that'd only be true for his rookie season, and so what? He was still the best option that Miami had, and showed clear progress. Do you deny that Ryan has clearly improved, and hasn't shown signs of that improvement faltering? If anything it's sped up. Which is the point.