Which is the better receiver? One is Gibson the other is Bess.

[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td]REC[/td]
[td]YDS[/td]
[td]AVG[/td]
[td]TD[/td]
[td]20+[/td]
[td]YDS/G[/td]
[td]YAC[/td]
[td]1DN[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]61[/td]
[td]778[/td]
[td]12.8[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]59.8[/td]
[td]267[/td]
[td]38[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]51[/td]
[td]691[/td]
[td]13.5[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]43.2[/td]
[td]116[/td]
[td]43[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

 

I wasn't a big Goodwin fan, but I thought we should have drafted Bailey.

As for Bess' role, I expect that Gibson will get many of those third down passes. In that area, he is an upgrade over Bess. Gibson does a better job of of getting quick position on the DB. We wanted Austin to provide that big play from the slot that we lacked. We still don't have that, and I expect that's why we're looking at Cribbs. Although I'm looking forward to seeing Matthews progress. At Nevada, he had a tendency to make big, clutch plays despite not being that Austin type of player.

 

Anyone want to say why the team traded Bess? Was it because he apparently didnt want to play injured? Or was that a smokescreen? Browns got a steal imo. Not that Bess cant be replaced, just what we traded him for. Solid player. Gibson shows similiar stats with more TDs.

 

I think it's a good question..Bess's yac yardage is considerably better, Gibson brings a little more inside the red zone, it's not an easy evaluation, Bess worked that blood zone area real nice, and we don't know if Gibson can fill there in that capacity, then again the skillset of Gibson could change our scheme a bit to create a different dynamic, idk, need to look at our preseason games on rewind..

 

Lol. You just typed that it doesn't matter who the better receiver is.

 

Trading Bess could've been a positive because it could've opened the door for a more talented player. But they didn't upgrade. They downgraded. It is baffling. But they upgraded with Mike Wallace so that probably outweighs it.

 

It's baffling to you that a guy w only 1 year left on his deal, likely wouldn't be re-signed, and who would be losing a good amount of snaps to Gibson was traded?

 

Not too concerned. Gibson, Hartline, and Wallace should all be interchanging their positions anyways. Throw in our tight ends/h-backs/running backs and we should be fine. Also expecting progress from Rishard Matthews.

 

I expect Keller to be running a lot of Bess' routes...IMO Keller is an upgrade to Bess

 

Really?

 

Philbin doesn't want a traditional slot receiver. He wants 4-5 receivers who can play both inside and outside. Obviously the coaching staff didn't believe Bess was suited for the outside in this offense. That is why he was traded. He was a one trick pony.

Going forward, the passing game is going to be all about versatility.

 

Bess is solide player. No doubt. But we tenny still can throw to wallace heartline gibson keller and rb...my biggest concern is not slot guy but LT...

 

that's sounds right, but I wouldn't consider Wallace and Hartline to be as good on the inside as they are on the outside.?

 

I think that its very possible that we dont use the slot WR nearly as much as in the past, and therefore Bess was disposable as a 4th WR. Perhaps the team lines up in a lot of two TE sets this year. Maybe they use Hartline and Gibson outside, and put Wallace in the "slot" to run a deep route? They seem to have a plan. Im interested to see what it is.

 

I do see Slicks point about his contract being up next year, and we might as well try and get something for him while we can..

 

According to ProFootballFocus.com, Gibson, playing for St. Louis last season, led NFL wide receivers in first down and touchdown conversion percentage last year. Gibson's strength is getting his body in quick position between the defender and the ball. Bess, while one of my favorite players, struggled there. He also struggled with getting quick separation. I believe that they felt RT struggled when he had to hold the ball and wait for the receiver to get in position and that the additions of Wallace, Gibson and Keller were specifically intended to address that.

We are reported to be one of three teams that Cribbs has scheduled visits with.

 

I think they realized they were losing Bess for nothing next year. The plan is actually to build a team with players that will be here and fit Philbin's vision. It seems to me that Gibson does that better than Bess. And IMO "proven" is a fan word that has little real meaning. What matters is if a guy can play or not. Matthews can play.

 

We may never know the full reasons but Bess got into Philbins doghouse and as we know thats only transit quarters before a player gets ousted.Also his contract was maturing to its most expensive phase and thus you could call him a cap casualty too.:yes:

 

Gibson made Bess more expendable than he already was.

 

that's easy, look at the TDs. I love Bess, but I'll keep saying it. this time next season, we won't miss him. He's a fan favorite, he's good on 3rd down, but he doesn't score. At least Gibson has a chance to catch the ball in the endzone.

 

I think he made a lot of first downs, but he was useless in the Red Zone. That's where they wanted to upgrade. Points on the board. Not stats. Scoring wise, Bess was horrible at YAC. Just FYI , I liked him , he was a quality person to have in the Locker room, But we are not winning Superbowls with short yardage passes and field goals.

 

In GB they don't run with a primary slot. They ran a lot of 3 WR sets with Finley lined up inside and sometimes on the outside. They aren't looking for a Welker kind of WR IMO.

I'd guess we will see a lot of Wallace, Hartline, Keller, Gibson with Lamar as the feature back. I also think where we see these guys lined up will vary often. This offense assuming RT gets time too throw is going to put points on the scoreboard.

Infact I'll make a MAY prediction....this offense averages over 24ppg. Anyone wanna make a sig bet just let me know.

 

No doubt that Bess was a cap casualty and an asset that we could only extract future value from in a draft trade. Save $2.7m and get a pick versus him walking for nada next year.

If you run our draft though the wash, we turned Bess and 9 slots in the 3rd into a pick in the top half of the 4th round, which we used on Dion Sims. Also modestly upgraded our existing 4th to the top of the round. Of course, this assumes the 7ths were currency we didn't really value given the number of picks we had.

None of this answers your question about whether we have a replacement, but with Wallace, Hartline and Keller in the mix, Bess' targets were bound to decline, regardless of what Gibson can do. With that, you extract his value while it's there, IMO.

Basically, it was one year of Bess for Sims and some cap space next year.

We should be happy for Bess as well. UDFA just scored another 3 yr deal.

 

How on earth do stats indicate a personal preference?

 

Granted this is purely speculation on my part, but the coaching staff may disagree. I recall shortly after we signed Wallace, there was an article written that made a really big deal about how the coaching staff as well as the scouting department believed that Wallace was a much more complete player than he was given credit for, and they believed his value was going to be on display all over the field, as opposed to just over the top. That really stood out in my mind, and I thought of it as soon as they traded Bess.

As for Hartline, I'm not sure. But clearly he fits a mold that Bess did not.

 

Yup. If you think of it as 4 extra TDs, which is 28 points more from your receiver, then divide it by 16 games you get a little under +2 more points per game.

How many more games dod we win last year if you add two points to all our offensive totals?

(Yes, I know it doesn;t work like that. It's just an example of how it could help us.)

 

Not worried about the slot because I think Hartline will be at the slot more and Matthews will step up and take the two spot. It will be best for our offense that Matthews becomes the possession/physical/red zone threat receiver this offense desperately lacks. And I think Matthews is very capable of being that guy for us.

 

This is going to sound like a broken record, but in Philbin and Sherman's offense all receivers run the entire route tree. Philbin doesn't really do "specialists", like "slot" receivers. Hartline, Gibson, and even Wallace could potentially line up in the slot in any formation. Look at the Green Bay roster. You will see receivers that generally have the same skills. Some do have a little more height than others but no real "slot" type guy as we have known in the past. And yes, I understand Cobb ran from the slot. But he could line up anywhere. I don't know the reference point, but I do remember Philbin's comments on the idea of a specialist.

 

I don't think Wallace is a one trick pony, but working the middle of the field like Bess is not in his repertoire really, nor Hartline, so I'm left to believe that the middle part of the field where Bess excelled running his quick digs and jerk routes, is not in the design of this offense therefore the skillset is expendable..Should be interesting to see if the routes designed are going to be different from the ones that Bess was runnin consistently.

 

Yeah I disagree here, I think Matthews has the body and strength it takes to play inside, Matthews just might be another reason why Bess became expendable, I think they keep Hartline playing his role on the boundary, he and RT gelled quickly and effectively, plus I don't believe he has the strength to play inside too much.

 

While I understand Cobb ran from the slot quite a bit, he is not a "specialist" type like Welker or Bess. The Packers don't use the "primary slot" like a team like New England. Not saying Philbin can't change what he does. He could, but historically Fin-Omenal's comments are accurate.

 

I think the problem worth the whole argument is that because Gibson only played the slot 8% of the time, the assumption your making is that he can't play the slot.

Maybe the plan is to move Gibson outside and Hartline to the slot.

 

Even more than that, Gibson is better than Bess, point blank. The goal with WRs is to put the best ones you have on the field. Bess was fourth after we signed Wallace, Hartline & Gibson.

 

In Cobb is far from a welker or bess type receiver. That's my point. We don't need shifty guys

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2