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IMO Thiggy's being prepped for trade. this is why:

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ToddsPhins, Aug 22, 2010.

  1. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Well then let me ask you this, Coral. If a needy team throws a 3rd rounder at us for Thiggy, do you take it? Or, hypothetically, how about a 2nd?
     
  2. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    You just changed the game.

    This team has always mentioned that anyone is available for the right price.
    You'd be hard pressed for any team to turn down a 2nd round draft pick for a backup QB.

    That value system does not equate to the reason why Thigpen is gulping up all the reps in preparation for the season though.

    Are you saying teams giving any backup QB reps during preseason are doing so simply to fish for draft picks that there is a very high chance will never be offered?

    No, you give the most preparation time to the backups at each position that have the most talent, potential and that may be needed during the season.
     
  3. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I just thought of something. I think Sparano and Co. have enough information on the QB's. They know Thigpen has NFL ready skills and they know Pat White is less than perfect. Because of this, the preseason isn't even about evaluating QB's. This preseason is about evaluating WR's. Think about it. If Sparano and Co. only want to see the WR's, they'll give them the best opportunity in game. That means someone who has played in NFL situations, and is less valuable that Henne or Penny.

    They also know that White has made the WR's look bad in practice. So to see how good they really are, they get to catch passes from a guy who did well with Dwayne Bowe and no one else. This has nothing to do with QB's in my opinion. The FO is trying to make sure they make the right decision on that 4 and 5 WR. If they give them a capable QB then we know if they suck or not. Running with Pat White may make them look bad then they go to Green Bay and make a Pro-Bowl.
     
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  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Make no mistake about it, Irish wants to replace that 2011 #2 pick they gave up for Brandon Marshall, if they can get that for Thigghy they would pull the trigger.

    Of that I'm certain.

    However, your larger point, that Thiggy is playing so much because they are trying to trade him, I'd have to disagree and here is why:

    Henne..13 game starter
    Thiggy..13 game starter
    Pennington 9 yr starter

    White..never started a game. With Penny coming off of shoulder surgery, and Thiggy with those starts, why would you sell off your #3 Qb for a draft pick potentailly ruining a season in which Ross paid big money to acquire players for?

    I read that over half of the starting Qb's in the NFL did not play 16 games in 09, we have all seen how balsa wood fragile Pennington is, if Henne is seriously injured would "you" want to be down to Penny and White and hope for the best?

    I wouldn't, unless the price for that risk was high enough to make it worthwhile if the Penny/White scenario came to pass.
     
  5. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Sorry, Coral..... you're reading extra into my question. I just simply wanted to know, with everything else aside, what you'd do (or think we'd do) if someone dangled a 3rd at us for him. It's decent question IMO. Even if we're giving him extra reps b/c we want him well prepared, do we take the hypothetical 3rd? Personally, I like Thiggy and a 3rd would be tough for me considering we'd then most likely have to turn around and use one of our picks on a QB if we didn't go the FA route. If a contender in need said "here's a 2nd for Tyler", I'd take it and wish him good luck.
     
  6. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    That's a plausible explanation IMO...... definitely one well worth consideration, Slow. :knucks: Best way to run a proper experiment is to keep the QB constant right? If the receivers are in "that" tight of a race, then Thiggy could make sense.... or make added sense to keep him seeing reps.
     
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  7. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    That's a great point..... which is why I'm trying to figure out the fine line between keeping Thiggy vs him bringing more value as a draft pick. At what round do you cross over. For me, initially I'd have to see stats showing how often a team has had to resort to their 3rd string QB and for how many games. Then I'd want to know (I forget who mentioned it earlier) what Penny's intentions are. If he doesn't want to stick around very long then I wouldn't take less than a 2nd for Thiggy. I'd also want to know going into the season which vets would likely be available during the season.

    Tom Brandstater is on the bubble I believe in Indy. I wouldn't mind acquiring a 2nd or 3rd for Thiggy and then snagging a guy like Brandstater up. Indy has 4 QBs with Tim Heller also in the mix. I take either one of those guys and develop them as our 3rd. Even Brian Brohm wasn't looking terrible the other night.
     
  8. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the thing u should look at is after PW shot vs pitt last yr, dont u think if they were counting on him to Be ready in case, they would get him as much pt as possible? he hasnt played at all other than kneel down time.
     
  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I think all QBs not named Henne could be had for the right price.
     
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  10. windwalker

    windwalker New Member

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    Did White even dress out for the Jaxs game??? I saw a pdf file from the Dolphins page, and it listed the starters, subs, and "did not play" list.... I didn't see his name anywhere.
     
  11. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    That doesn't make a lot of sense, though. For one, I doubt there's any GM in the league that will part with anything without having that player thoroughly scouted. And two, if they needed to know why he wasn't playing, they could find out easily enough. Word gets around the league. You really can't hide that sort of thing, especially with someone of White's profile.
     
  12. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    I agree that the team would more than likely be willing to roll the dice on moving Thigpen for a 2nd or even a 3rd possibly. I mean backups are just insurance and we do have Pennington although he's still questionable with that shoulder IMO. It would be a risk worth taking for the right price.

    I just do not at all think that is why the Phins are playing him extensively.
    I think they realize that Pennington while experienced is still a big risk health wise. They realize Thigpen may be it if Henne gets injured.
     
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  13. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Yes he did.
     
  14. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    For what, a bag of footballs?
    No one in their right mind is going to give us anything for White.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think we're making this way more complicated than it actually is.

    Chad Henne is getting reps because he's a starter. He'd get less reps if he was a more established starter. He'd get more reps if they weren't sure about him.

    Chad Pennington got no reps in the first game because he's recovering from a shoulder injury, and he's very well established. If there's any mystery here, it's why after saying outright that Pennington won't play in the second game, they decided to play him anyway. My guess? They had a pitch count for Henne in mind when they put him in, figuring he'd get the entire first half and promising Tyler Thigpen the entire second half, but Henne reached that pitch count early and so instead of toss Thigpen in early they used the opportunity to get Pennington, who is the primary backup no matter what anyone says, some sea legs.

    Why so many reps for Thigpen? Because he's a promising prospect. He had a pretty good year with the Chiefs when he was tossed into the starting role but he comes from a spread like offense in college and his delivery is low so they've raised his delivery and continued to work him over and they would like to see just how deep this rabbit hole goes.

    Why isn't Pat White getting reps? Because he's been terrible in practice. He's not earned reps. Thigpen has. Why is he still on roster? Why not. It's not cut date yet. Pennington's shoulder isn't ready to be counted on to participate in practice every day and do a lion's load of the throwing, so they need another camp arm.
     
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  16. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    interesting theory
     
  17. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I'm not sure what would be the point of bringing White on the field, just to run plays that he'll never run during the regular season. Did White run any plays last regular season that he ran in preseason?

    I also don't see the point in keeping White if he'll inevitably be cut. Even if its not the cut date, its still a roster spot that could be used on someone else.

    In regards to Thigpen, I think he's become a little overrated. The guy piled up numbers on a horrible team, out of spread formations, in blowout situations for KC. I'm not sure what that really says about the guy, but I don't put much value in what he did there. I think if you're looking to trade Thigpen, I think you'll be lucky to get a 5th. Either way, If Thigpen is our QB, I can't see us being a very good team offensively.

    I don't think that necessarily means Thigpen is trying to be traded though. I think its just a scenario where the team puts him out there to see if he's worth keeping or not.
     
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  18. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thigpen is a prospect worth of development time. At this point Pat White is not.

    It's just that simple. It was a busted pick. so be it and move on.
     
  19. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I think that's a very valid point. If Pat is dropped during final cuts w/o seeing a "real" snap, then how will that be interpreted by the team and league after realizing we basically used the guy for his practice arm? I'd think twice about coming here if I were a FA.

    I agree with CK about giving Thiggy reps b/c he earned them and b/c he's potentially our backup etc....... BUT half of these reps are against 3rd string defenders and guys who will be looking through the classified ads in a few weeks..... and half of the reps are with teammates who won't be on our 53 man roster either, so it's not like he's developing any sort of real chemistry out there. Crap, I haven't played in years, but I could probably do some damage against a Junior High team. :shifty:

    Plus we all know that things change when it's game time and some players perform completely different in games than in practice. We're talking about 2nd round Pat White here, one of the best college leaders in recent history. I personally don't care "what people did in practice to earn what" when it comes to certain players. If I use a 2nd round pick on you, then I want to see you in some action; give me that final reason to either cut you or buy you an extra week.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's different for a QB. QBs are generals, not soldiers. You're playing against third stringers, but you're playing with third stringers as well. I've seen QBs go into late game preseason scenarios and have it so rough that Peyton Manning wouldn't have done jack schit in those situations. You have third string OLs blocking for you and what happens when the other team has a promising rookie like Geno Atkins or Greg Hardy, cutting through your schitty OLs like a hot knife through butter?

    I think it's all good experience when it comes to the QBs. That's my opinion, anyway.
     
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  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I could agree that's a valid point, Chris. It still "somewhat" has me thinking: are these the kinds of scenarios and extra reps that will truly help an ex-starting QB grow that much more? I'd still have to believe there comes a time as a coach when you say "Ok, there's 8 minutes left.... that's enough for him." "We have an ex-starting QB who could possibly be relied upon this season, so lets not get him hurt while he's trusting 3rd stringers to protect him." I'd think the knife cuts both ways here. If he gets hurt, then we're definitely stuck with Pat as the 3rd. I'd want Pat late in the game if nothing more than to protect Thiggy. Our #2 is already seeing less reps than every other team's #2, so it's not like Thiggy isn't seeing quality time. He would probably see more action than any #3 in the league, even if Pat played the final 8 minutes.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He may have started most of a year, but he's not all that experienced. He came from Coastal Carolina, not North Carolina. They're raising his delivery point and trying to cure him of some of the spread offense tendencies that were only reinforced when Chan Gailey decided to heavily incorporate elements of it into the offense he called when Thigpen was the QB in Kansad City.

    He's still a project. He showed that in the Week 17 Steelers game. There's the good, and the bad. All of the reps are valuable for him right now. He's worth it. Right now, Pat White isn't.

    He's like a Tony Romo or a Matt Cassel. But you had to get Tony Romo and Matt Cassel lots of reps to get them to be Tony Romo and Matt Cassel.
     
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  23. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    That's what I'd want to believe but I thought there was a fine line between regular reps verses reps in the last 8 minutes of a meaningless game to where you're elevating risk of injury. I wouldn't think it would be the most beneficial psychologically to know that I'm an ex starter out here with 3rd and 4th stringers till the clock hits zero (b/c many guys play to the level of their competition as we all know can happen). However, I guess on the flip side if the coaches make it clear to Thiggy that his mindset during these situations should be geared towards: "this is only for extra reps and delivery work", then I could see it being ok.
     
  24. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Are you seriously taking Sparano's word on this? lol I never take their word for anything these days. With this team their actions always speak much louder than what they say during pressers and interviews. It's for the team's own good too IMO. I'd rather not have the league know more than they already do about our team. That's the difference between an idiotic coach like Rex Ryan and a smart one like Tony Sparano(and Bill Parcells upstairs setting the tone).
     
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  25. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    It sounds like the Rams and Giants are having a lot of QB injuries so I wouldn't be shocked if he was traded to one of these teams.
     
  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't see that at all. Players want to play. And you're denigrating the quality of the reps more than necessary, IMO. If the reps are such garbage, why is it a big deal whether Tyler Thigpen gets them or Pat White does? If they're so meaningless...then why would the coaches use such meaningless reps to execute any kind of conspiracy whatsoever?
     
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  27. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    Thiggy needs the reps to be the 3d QB for us or to get any value in a trade ... either way he needs them. it would be interesting to see where he would be if he played at a real school with some good coaching ... but none-the-less ... the WildPat is one and done ....
     
  28. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    He is not 100 percent healthy and giving Thigpen more reps gets him comfortable with the offense because once the season starts he will need to know as much as possible in case he is needed. He will only get some practice reps from the 1st game of the season on out...

    I can't see them LOOKING to trade him when he won't garner that much.
     
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  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Iam gonna stay the course on what ive said all offseason..

    Pennington backing up Henne is a rare chance to give the franchise QB an education that is invaluable..Plus he is the ultimate backup that can win games for you....

    Henne/ Pennington..

    If I were the regime I would try to keep Penny for next year as well, so he is part of the run next year.

    Trade Tyler for a higher pick than what you paid. Paid a 5th, recoup a third, done.
     
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  30. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No one is going to give a third for Thigpen, though.
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Often I agree with you, but I totally cannot get on board with the idea of trading Thigpen. I hope White gets cut soon, since it is inevitable anyway, and then the trade Thigpen talk can die down.

    Thigpen as the 2nd or 3rd QB gives us 3 we can win games with. IMO, we can't win games with White, if he were ever needed to start at QB. Not the White we are seeing in camp to this point.
     
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  32. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    That just happen to be one article from 2009 that Sparano touted using White primarily as a QB, not a slash type guy as the reason for drafting him. Of course, you can't believe coach-speak 95% of the time and I realize that. In my argument of what White's role on the team would be, I was reference this quote... Bottom line though, is that it appears that White won't be much of a topic of conversation in a couple of weeks anyway.

    And Rexy, for all of his blow-hardedness (Gee, I just made up a word !), isn't as dumb has one might think. There is a method to his madness. His bantering back and forth with the press and other players, etc only takes the pressure off his players.... That's what he's trying to accomplish. Notice how you almost never hear from the players there....either that, or he's just simply a media attention whore ??
     
  33. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Thought this was interesting.......

    Derek Anderson completed 11-of-19 passes for 105 yards in the Cardinals' second preseason game Monday night.

    Anderson did "spark" the Cards on a field-goal drive immediately after Matt Leinart's second-quarter exit, but it's not like it was a great effort. D.A.'s accuracy woes were especially evident in the red zone, and his deep balls were almost all off target. Cardinals GM Rod Graves would be smart to explore the trade market before it gets too late. Sage Rosenfels would be an ideal acquisition. Kellen Clemens, Tyler Thigpen, Troy Smith, and Charlie Batch might also warrant looks.
     
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  34. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I think it's White's poor play in practice that has kept him out of the preseason games. Coaches want to give the rest of the players a fair shot at making the team. Particularly at wr, where we do have a legit battle on our hands for possibly the 4th and 5th spots. Those guys need the better qb out there throwing them the ball. Clearly, Thigpen > White. And because of the unique situation with Pennington coming off an injury, his reps have been severely limited.

    On another note, McCown played 3/4's of the game with the Jags last week, are they showcasing him for trade? Where's their 3rd / 4th qb?
     
  35. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I don't see a 3rd round pick coming for Thigpen, and with Pennington's history of injuries, it would be a good idea to have a 3rd option that can play.
     
  36. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To be honest, I'm shocked Arizona isn't interested in Pennington. SF too.
     
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  37. Robert Horry

    Robert Horry New Member

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    Thigpen is very very inconsistent. I am not even sure if he can eradicate those problems either. I've seen some of his Coastal Carolina games(Friends went there), and he's doing the same mistakes he did at Coastal Carolina. He's been in the league for 3 years and still doing the same mistakes. Yeah, he has potential, but it seems like he can't help himself and gets himself into trouble more often than not. I would love him if we were the Patriots running that spread or trey or 4 wide offense. I don't like him in a 3-5-7 step drop offense that demands you stand in the pocket and progress through your reads efficiently and quickly. He's made a little progress, but I would trade him for a 5th, 6th, and maybe 7th in a second.
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But I think keeping Pennington puts Thigpen in a situation he doesn't want to be in, I too would like to see him be our future backup to Henne, but I don't think we can have our cake {Penny} and eat it too {Thig}, unless he's cool with being a 3rd teamer for a year or 2....I hope he is content with it, but his situation, and where he came from { a starter in the pro's} combined with the type of competitor I think he is, just doesn't add up to 3rd teamer..

    amazing how clueless we are as fans when it comes to this, why does our backup qb situation have to be such a frekin secret?
     
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  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    sure, in a perfect world OZ that would be ideal....Penny is a backup that didnt seem that hurt to me driving our team down the field for 6 against first teamers, and, having the complete support of his teammates doing so.. keeping Thigpen in case your backup gets hurt seems a bit luxurious to me..

    I think keeping Penny forces your hand because of how the thigpen variables stack up against you.
     
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  40. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I think opposing teams know that Chad, and the FO's intentions are to have him stay in Miami, and while he could be had, it will be for Miami's price, and what are you going to do, give up a 2nd for him....?? if you are the other team, thats overkill....

    Its like he is available but isnt....u know?

    I have changed my mind on Chad, I think he should be the 2nd QB not Thiggy...I was unaware just how well he has progressed in his rehab, that he could deinately lead this team if something was to happen to Hen-Dog
     

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