Most people agree that a fast 40 time is a prerequisite for a cornerback to have a high level of NFL success. Dee Milliner has that speed, but does he lack other instincts and skills necessary to succeed? Johnthan Banks has those instincts and skills in spades, but does his lack of speed mean he is doomed to be a mediocre NFL cornerback? Consider the following: Pro Bowl CB 40 times Jonathan Joseph 4.31 (One Of The Fastest 40 times) Darrelle Revis 4.38 Champ Bailey 4.28 (One Of The Fastest 40 times) Charles Woodson 4.4 Brandon Browner 4.63 Carlos Rogers 4.44 Charles Tillman 4.49 JONATHAN BANKS 4.61 DEE MILLINER 4.37 So the majority of Pro Bowl corners sport 4.4 speed or faster. Dee Milliner passes this test. But what about Browner, Rogers and Tillman? What makes them successful and could Johnthan Banks emulate that success? Well, Carlos Rogers and Charles Tillman both had top 20 fastest 20-yard shuttle times over the last ten years of all combine participants. Change of direction makes up for straight line speed. 20-Yd Shuttle Carlos Rogers 3.82 Charles Tillman 3.89 Brandon Browner 4.24 Johnthan Banks 4.27 Tillman and Rogers make up for their lack of stright line speed with incredible change-of-direction ability. Banks does not pass this test either. Does this mean Banks cannot project as a Pro Bowl corner? Well, what about Brandon Browner, the remaining corner who The first difference between Brandon Browner and Johnthan Banks is size. Browner is huge. 6'4" 221lbs while Banks is 6'2" and only a skinny 185lbs. That's a problem, because Banks does not offer Browner's physicality, tackling ability, nor frame to stand up to the pounding of the NFL. How is Browner almost 40 pounds bigger and yet he has the same speed and agility measurables as Banks? That has to be a knock in evaluators eyes, compared to Browner. The things that will allow Banks to potentially project as an NFL starter in the eyes of GM's will depend somewhat on what has allowed Browner to be successful. Can Banks find a home in a scheme that lets him use his strengths and hides his weaknesses in much the same way as the Seahawks can do with the physical, but slower, Browner? At the end of the day, a GM has lots of justification to select Dee Milliner based on history and measurables. GMs can more comfortably project him to not be a bust. Johnthan Banks, however, is in a precarious position, imo. coming into the draft highly touted, his combine is nothing short of disastrous, in my opinion. He displayed slow straight line speed, slow change of direction, and did not display impressive bench press strength to help convince GM's he will make up for it with physicality. Dee Milliner has ensconced himself as a top ten pick, perhaps even top five now, to Detroit. Johnthan Banks, at this point, is in danger of being dropped to the end of the first round, if not the early second.
Let's see what he runs at his pro day before knocking him down too far. Slay will also run both venues so if Banks improves a lot and Slay runs about the same we could say Banks just had an off day today, but if both improve to the same degree, it may be the MSU track is just faster. Banks does not play slow and he gets his hands on lots of balls and that is most important to me, not his underwear Olympics times.
When you add it to an injury an also the coaching staff not playing him on run downs there start to be too many downsides to draft him high. He's a late first to mid-second to me. And I wanted him at 12 a month ago.
Keep in mind as well, Browner spent yrs developing his craft in the CFL, and his first 6-7 games in the NFL he was the most penalized Cb in the NFL. Now, iirc, didn't Jarius Byrd start out as a Cb?
Hmm, seemed like they moved him in yr #2? I really don't pay all that much attention to the Bills tbh. Thing with Browner is it just took him a long time to learn how to use his frame, now he is a legit All Pro, someone may see the same things in Sean Smith
Banks will fill out as time rolls along, the real problem is I don't see taking him with a high #1 as he is a work in progress. If you draft a guy high, you have to be satisfied with his skillset as is/w upside
Byrd never played CB in the NFL, he was a backup for the first few games of his career then got his first start vs the Fins due to injury…. never looked back.
Not really. People just get caught up in the nonsense, the casual draft fan sees the Bowl game, 35 days after the season ends and the watches the Combine and thinks that's all she wrote.
Whoever is the better football player wins, if their both even, and one runs faster, than it can come into play.
I'd bet they had great shuttle times or at least a broad jump >10feet because they must have great suddeness in their change of direction. Obviously great instincts and being a student of the game can all but erase speed difference too (seeing the game a second ahead of everyone else). Look, I still like Banks, but there's no question a bit of bloom is off that rose with these numbers. Now, if his Pro Day numbers are significantly better, then you ask why the numbers are so different. No matter how I look at it, I wouldn't take him at 12 at this point. If he had run a 4.5 40 and a 3.94 20 yard shuttle, I would be strongly considering it. As it is, I may just wait until the 5th round and draft CK to be my nickel.
I suppose so, but it's odd that the majority of CBs who make it to a Pro Bowl level either sport a fast 40 time, or a top-notch shuttle result, don't you think? Meanwhile, here's an example of a guy who didn't... Sean Smith. 4.50 40, and not a stellar shuttle either. Maybe a corner can make up for it with suddeness. These guys tend to have broad jumps over 10 feet. Smith's is closer to 9. I'm just saying, if you threw up a scatter plot graph of 40 times, shuttle times and color coded it by guys who made a Pro BOwl versus guys who didn't but did play in ght league, versus guys who were out of the league within a year, I think you'd pretty clearly see clusters and groupings with 4.4 40 times and sub 4.0 shuttle times being a part of the equation. If you don;t have either, by a far stretch, the odds are against you becoming a top corner. Doesn't mean it isn't possible. For every 10 Luke Keuchlys, there is one Zach Thomas out there. It's just longer odds.
usually the better football player has the better instincts, the better your instincts the faster you arrive at point b..of course speed has to be analyzed when you have players that are evenly matched, but if you take an inferior prospect because he's faster and you expect him to make up that space thru speed, you could be opening up other deficiencies in the scheme..
As has been stated over and over, you can't count that. Haden was given terrible terrible coaching. So bad Deion himself called Joe to say "listen, no offense to your speed coach, but his technique isn't flowing with your running style. Just line up and run like you're 13 years old" (or something along those lines) and Haden did with no extra stuff. He just ran it straight up and busted out a 4.43. He had closing speed.
